fittie Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 Don't know if I have posted a picture of this in the past but thought that it might be of interest. Found in the mud in MK some 30+ years ago. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Why are they called tunnel hooks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) They were the hooks by which boats were towed through tunnels, the hook would be the place from which the next boat in line would be attached. Towing from the 'T' stud on the stern of a horse boat the line would foul the Rams head. I'll give you another 20p for it Fittie . . . Edited June 3, 2018 by Derek R. Added text 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Derek R. said: They were the hooks by which boats were towed through tunnels, the hook would be the place from which the next boat in line would be attached. Towing from the 'T' stud on the stern of a horse boat the line would foul the Rams head. Well I didn't know that, always wondered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB Esk Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Bee said: Well I didn't know that, always wondered... Yes, cleared it up for me too. Thanks to Derek R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 That is rare. Most people would bend down to retrieve 20p, it's 5p and coppers that usually get ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 This piccy shows the tunnel hook in use, though on this occasion it was to tow a little boat containing the photographer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philjw Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 9 hours ago, Derek R. said: Towing from the 'T' stud on the stern of a horse boat the line would foul the Rams head. So when would the T stud be used then? Just for tying up? Would it have the strap used to slow the boat at a lock? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 minute ago, philjw said: So when would the T stud be used then? Just for tying up? Would it have the strap used to slow the boat at a lock? Phil The 'T' Stud on the stern of a horse boat is used when tying the boat to either the bank or abreast of another boat (if neither had an anser pin and hook). Strapping lines are usually used from the anser pin as they might become detached from a hook as the steerer steps off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philjw Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Thanks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) All G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. buttys had both hooks and anser pins, and every motor had anser pins making these pairs pretty easy to boat with. The problem comes when boats from differing carriers are paired and hooks and anser pins are either miss-aligned or not fitted. This will often then lead to a line being taken from the mast to the fore end 'T' stud in addition to the fore ends being tied together, a practice often used by Barlow's / Blue Line edit = add photograph (copyright Mike Webb) of ROGER and RAYMOND at 'Pub Lock', Braunston. Edited June 3, 2018 by pete harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, pete harrison said: The 'T' Stud on the stern of a horse boat is used when tying the boat to either the bank or abreast of another boat (if neither had an anser pin and hook). Strapping lines are usually used from the anser pin as they might become detached from a hook as the steerer steps off From here: http://blisworth.org.uk/images/Payler Albums/Barlow/Barlow.htm Edited June 3, 2018 by Ray T Revised in light of information from Pete Harrison, below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 IRONSIDE was originally ordered for an independent carrier, but this was cancelled and it entered into the fleet of Samuel Barlow Coal Company Ltd. on completion. As can be seen in the image above (copyright Jim Payler) IRONSIDE has the fittings for both an anser pin and hook, but is being boated in the method adopted by most Barlow steerers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Another from Blisworth Images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 But why did the motors have lubbies probably spelt wrong but that sprung bit on top of the mast where a horse would pull from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: But why did the motors have lubbies probably spelt wrong but that sprung bit on top of the mast where a horse would pull from? I have never seen anything specific as to why a motor retains a top mast and looby, but I do have an opinion. Almost all of the first cargo carrying motor narrow boats were conversions of horse boats, so simply retained a top mast and looby following conversion - but there is a more practical point of view which I believe required all forthcoming and new cargo carrying motor narrow boats to retain a top mast and looby as long as they were cloth boats. The vast majority of long distance narrow boats were cloth boats, and the cloths are supported by a triangular structure of beams, stands, mast and cratch. Although the cratch (deckboard, false cratch, short top plank and side boards) is free standing it really requires a top plank to run from the mast to the cratch to give it some structural stability. One end on the top plank buts against the short top plank that links the top of the false cratch and deckboard together, whilst the other end that lies on top of the mast would have nothing to but against if there were no top mast - and the whole lot would not be structurally rigid. The looby is shaped and gives the boatman something to grab hold of when raising and lowering the top mast, and if the blacksmith is already making looby's for horse boats / buttys then the same might as well be placed on a motor as it is of a proven design. Decked motor narrow boats were not fitted with masts, top masts or loobys and likewise neither were the last motor narrow boats built for 'British Waterways' North Western (Southern) Division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, pete harrison said: I have never seen anything specific as to why a motor retains a top mast and looby, but I do have an opinion. Almost all of the first cargo carrying motor narrow boats were conversions of horse boats, so simply retained a top mast and looby following conversion - but there is a more practical point of view which I believe required all forthcoming and new cargo carrying motor narrow boats to retain a top mast and looby as long as they were cloth boats. The vast majority of long distance narrow boats were cloth boats, and the cloths are supported by a triangular structure of beams, stands, mast and cratch. Although the cratch (deckboard, false cratch, short top plank and side boards) is free standing it really requires a top plank to run from the mast to the cratch to give it some structural stability. One end on the top plank buts against the short top plank that links the top of the false cratch and deckboard together, whilst the other end that lies on top of the mast would have nothing to but against if there were no top mast - and the whole lot would not be structurally rigid. The looby is shaped and gives the boatman something to grab hold of when raising and lowering the top mast, and if the blacksmith is already making looby's for horse boats / buttys then the same might as well be placed on a motor as it is of a proven design. Decked motor narrow boats were not fitted with masts, top masts or loobys and likewise neither were the last motor narrow boats built for 'British Waterways' North Western (Southern) Division Nice thinking Ta. It is something I have always wondered about. (well not always, but since I got to know a bit more about boats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) A mast & looby were handy for Gate /thumb lining with a southern pair or a pair in wide locks. Whoops sorry a frowned on practice or even a NO NO nowadays Edited June 4, 2018 by X Alan W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, X Alan W said: A mast & looby were handy for Gate /thumb lining with a southern pair or a pair in wide locks. Whoops sorry a frowned on practice or even a NO NO nowadays They certainly are, and this is still practiced today - as is strapping top gates closed in narrow locks (where there is still an accessible strapping post). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) When I first took over Little Woolwich butty "Crater"one of the tunnel hooks was as the OP's but also had the #270 stamped on it if as I suspect it was the fleet # it came from butty "Ilkeston" which was a bit of a coincidence as I was born near to there & my grand parents (dads side ) lived cut side at Hallam Fields & grandad worked for The Erewash Canal Company Before & during WW2 Saw a picture of a tidy looking "Crater" at Stoke B with 2 tunnel hooks wonder if either is still ex "Ilkeston" or if its life as hotel butty "Taurus " it sported the FMC hook Edited June 4, 2018 by X Alan W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 Alan, possibly my photo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 6 hours ago, X Alan W said: A mast & looby were handy for Gate /thumb lining with a southern pair or a pair in wide locks. Whoops sorry a frowned on practice or even a NO NO nowadays 5 hours ago, pete harrison said: They certainly are, and this is still practiced today And, boy oh boy, do some of those attempting it need to practice! Nice to see if done right, but a pain in the arse if you are held up by a crew that consistently fails to do it right. The problem I see, is that whilst you are theoretically keeping an old technique alive, in the old days they left the paddles up, and just motored out leaving the gates open, so it was a genuine saver of both time and effort. However, if you need crew on both sides of the locks to drop paddles, and close the gates once the boats have left, in general they could also have opened the gates, and avoided having to get the gate lines off the boats and correctly set up on both sides! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, alan_fincher said: And, boy oh boy, do some of those attempting it need to practice! what amuses me is when they film their 'efforts' and post it on YouTube, and so so often there are crew members hanging about when they should be running lines, opening paddles or pushing gates open Edited June 4, 2018 by pete harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Ray T said: Alan, possibly my photo: Yes that's the one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, pete harrison said: what amuses me is when they film their 'efforts' and post it on YouTube, and so so often there are crew members hanging about when they should be running lines, opening paddles or pushing gates open I can't imagine to what you are referring! (But that's the lot I was thinking of!) Another difficulty these days would be the one we have experienced at at least 3 locks this week going up from Tring summit to Fenny. Enough of the gates now have something sufficiently solid behind them, that if you try to bring two boats out breasted together, you get firmly stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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