RichLech Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I've seen reference to tank gauges that use ultrasound to measure the level, through sensors stuck on the outside of the tank. I'd like to put such a gauge on my plastic pump-out tank. It currently has a "full" indicator but some intermediate awareness of level would be useful and I don't really want to get into drilling holes in the tank. Does anyone know where I can get such a gauge, or better still does anyone use one that they can recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Heres an expensive one to start https://www.asap-supplies.com/gauges/senders-fittings/level-senders/vetus-ultrasonic-level-sensor-sensora Now see if you can find a cheaper one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 There’s a more expensive (naturally) Vetus one here: https://www.vetus-shop.com/vetus-ultrasonic-tank-level-sensor-analogue-p-1239.html Can’t find a cheaper one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Me neither. But this one will make the vetus guages look cheaper https://www.leesan.com/shop/tank-accessories/tank-level-indicators/gobius-4-2.0-tank-level-indicator-for-waste-tanks.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giant Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, RichLech said: I've seen reference to tank gauges that use ultrasound to measure the level, through sensors stuck on the outside of the tank. They go on the outside of the tank, but you still need to drill a hole for them to look through and some screw holes for mounting. Same as you would for a mechanical float based one like the Wema/KUS units. There is a BEP one which is slightly cheaper than the Vetus: http://www.cactusnav.com/ultrasonic-tank-sender-p-15649.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Giant said: There is a BEP one which is slightly cheaper than the Vetus: http://www.cactusnav.com/ultrasonic-tank-sender-p-15649.html That’s just the sender though. You then need the matching gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Giant said: They go on the outside of the tank, but you still need to drill a hole for them to look through and some screw holes for mounting. Same as you would for a mechanical float based one like the Wema/KUS units. There is a BEP one which is slightly cheaper than the Vetus: http://www.cactusnav.com/ultrasonic-tank-sender-p-15649.html Im afraid you are wrong there. The last loo I repaired had one sitting on top of the tank-If memory serves me right it was a Tecma -it was part of the standard flush/tank level panel Similar idea- https://www.thetfordmarine.com/product/field-effect-sensor/ Edited March 5, 2018 by PaulJ Add link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giant Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 24 minutes ago, WotEver said: That’s just the sender though. You then need the matching gauge. Indeed - also true of the Vetus ones posted above. 24 minutes ago, PaulJ said: Im afraid you are wrong there. The last loo I repaired had one sitting on top of the tank-If memory serves me right it was a Tecma -it was part of the standard flush/tank level panel Similar idea- https://www.thetfordmarine.com/product/field-effect-sensor/ The Vetus one you posted first does need a hole. I'm familiar with them - I used one to replace a faulty mechanical one on the black tank of a tall ship I help out with. It was a drop-in replacement using the same SAE 5-hole mounting but still needs the cutout to look through. The BEP is similar. The Tecma field effect sensors will work through a plastic tank but won't drive an actual gauge - they just tell you when the level has reached the height of the single sensor. The Gobius unit does drive a gauge without needing a hole, but it's not an ultrasound unit - it's just just three field effect sensors used together. So it can distinguish between empty, above first/second/third sensor - driving a coarse LED gauge indicating in quarters - but won't give you any finer resolution than that as an ultrasound gauge would. I stand by my advice that an ultrasound one, driving a gauge, as the OP asked about, requires a cutout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Giant said: Indeed - also true of the Vetus ones posted abov Ahh yes, missed that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detling Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 you can get systems for use on domestic fuel oil tanks eg Watchman Sonic Ultrasonic Oil Level Monitor https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchman-Sonic-Ultrasonic-Oil-Level-Monitor-Heating-Tank-Indicator-Gauge-Sensor/121919607180?epid=1404527827&hash=item1c62f9918c:g:WucAAMXQIBBRCsBp But they need a big tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Our polypropylene tank, when a bright torch is held against it, shows a shadow internally where the fluid level is. This works best when lit from above, and the level is more than 1/2 full. Cheap and easy. Bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Giant said: Indeed - also true of the Vetus ones posted above. The Vetus one you posted first does need a hole. I'm familiar with them - I used one to replace a faulty mechanical one on the black tank of a tall ship I help out with. It was a drop-in replacement using the same SAE 5-hole mounting but still needs the cutout to look through. The BEP is similar. The Tecma field effect sensors will work through a plastic tank but won't drive an actual gauge - they just tell you when the level has reached the height of the single sensor. The Gobius unit does drive a gauge without needing a hole, but it's not an ultrasound unit - it's just just three field effect sensors used together. So it can distinguish between empty, above first/second/third sensor - driving a coarse LED gauge indicating in quarters - but won't give you any finer resolution than that as an ultrasound gauge would. I stand by my advice that an ultrasound one, driving a gauge, as the OP asked about, requires a cutout. Well I cant argue with that- Im not at all familar with the vetus one and never seen one in my life ! The Tecma does indeed only indicate on leds which I guess is not really a gauge as you say. Think Bod has the best solution though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Brummie Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Detling said: you can get systems for use on domestic fuel oil tanks eg Watchman Sonic Ultrasonic Oil Level Monitor https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchman-Sonic-Ultrasonic-Oil-Level-Monitor-Heating-Tank-Indicator-Gauge-Sensor/121919607180?epid=1404527827&hash=item1c62f9918c:g:WucAAMXQIBBRCsBp But they need a big tank. They will monitor any tank size. You need a 32mm hole plus 2 screw holes and the sender is about 5" diameter and about2" high. It is also plastic, just right for getting kicked, and then broken as you trip into the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard T Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 We have dump through pump out toilets on Tyto. I made a dipstick using a length of clear plastic tube it stops short of the bottom of the tank so it doesn't pick up much c... and have marked the top level. Just open the flap and put it in Its simple and fool proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichLech Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Thanks for all your suggestions. Unfortunately only the Gobius 4 from Leesan meets my wish to avoid drilling holes in the tank, and that one is £300 +. Looks as though I might be sticking with the "Bod bright torch" method after all. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 I know its a hassle but a float sender out of a car and a gauge is dead cheap and not difficult to wire up. I put one in my fuel tank to avoid dipping it and ultrasound was too dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 17 hours ago, RichLech said: I'd like to put such a gauge on my plastic pump-out tank. It currently has a "full" indicator but some intermediate awareness of level would be useful and I don't really want to get into drilling holes in the tank. How does the "full" indicator work, if via a sender could you not just use this hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Ultra sound works well through plastic to say wether there is liquid at the sensor level or not. I use Bods method. Have you got access to part of the tank? A commercial tank gauge will require. 3 or 4 sensors and a meter so that could rack up £200+. If you have access then a cheapo hand held ultrasound might work. Never looked to see if you can get them...but even the cheapest will tell if it's looking at a layer of plastic or a layer of plastic with liquid behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just had a quick look and this type of kit is ideal. If it says thickness measurement then it's good. This is a professional piece of kit with high accuracy...which you don't need. Maybe find one on eBay for less than £100. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Metrica-60286-Ultrasound-Thickness-Measuring/dp/B00B9C8DD4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Just had a quick look and this type of kit is ideal. If it says thickness measurement then it's good. This is a professional piece of kit with high accuracy...which you don't need. Maybe find one on eBay for less than £100. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Metrica-60286-Ultrasound-Thickness-Measuring/dp/B00B9C8DD4 But Dr Bob. Would this not just measure the thickness of the tank? My Phd is a bit out of date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, rusty69 said: But Dr Bob. Would this not just measure the thickness of the tank? My Phd is a bit out of date. If no liquid behind the water then it measures the thickness of the tank. If there is liquid behind it then the biggest response will be the thickness of tank plus thickness of water. In the first case say 12mm, in the second 200mm. The response on the meter will be very different. Clever hey? We are doing this all the time in work on testing welds on HDPE water and gas pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: If no liquid behind the water then it measures the thickness of the tank. If there is liquid behind it then the biggest response will be the thickness of tank plus thickness of water. In the first case say 12mm, in the second 200mm. The response on the meter will be very different. Clever hey? We are doing this all the time in work on testing welds on HDPE water and gas pipes. That's real clever Dr Bob. Assumes it different for steel and water, cos my Phd is long forgotten. Edited March 6, 2018 by rusty69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 50 minutes ago, rusty69 said: That's real clever Dr Bob. Assumes it different for steel and water, cos my Phd is long forgotten. I know nothing...to quote Manuel....about ultrasound and steel. Only ultrasound and Polyolefins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 19 hours ago, RichLech said: I've seen reference to tank gauges that use ultrasound to measure the level, through sensors stuck on the outside of the tank. I'd like to put such a gauge on my plastic pump-out tank. It currently has a "full" indicator but some intermediate awareness of level would be useful and I don't really want to get into drilling holes in the tank. Does anyone know where I can get such a gauge, or better still does anyone use one that they can recommend? I've had one of these for 10 years without any problems. http://mcsboatproducts.co.uk/portfolio/waste-water-gauge/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Flyboy said: I've had one of these for 10 years without any problems. http://mcsboatproducts.co.uk/portfolio/waste-water-gauge/ I fitted the fresh water version to WotEver - dead simple to calibrate plus reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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