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Length of boats

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5 hours ago, Bunny said:

Was it level water . ?..Had a hell of a squeeze getting us in the lock last time , almost didnt make and would of had to wait for level water ,  we are definitely  62ft . Bunny 

Its got two sets of gates so although you can only go up on the level a 70 footer can go down at any time, as long as the tide is low enough to allow going down. Going down on a low falling time is not a good idea so the scheme is to go down as the tide starts to rise then wait till there is enough water to continue upstream. We did it with another 70 so we went out onto the mud and he sat in the lock behind us waiting for the tide.

................Dave

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I found Ashted locks to be the most problematic in the Brum area, I have devised a chain system that involves a single pull to lift all rear fenders at once, the front one is pretty slimline anyway. I do find the single bottom gate Curdworth and others a squeeze, but tend to use a hook to push the end over to allow the gate to move.

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On 3/5/2018 at 17:27, dmr said:

We are 70 foot and 9 inches and have never had troubles on the BCN,have done Brades and Smethwick, but last year we had to assist a hire boat who was stuck in Smethwick, I think it was the middle lock. Once we showed them that the fender could be lifted it was fine. I was surprised as I had always assumed that hire boats are limited to 68 or 69 foot to prevent problems. Pretty sure the tight lock on the North Stratford is the unusualy one with the hydraulic paddles at the top.

The real tight locks are at Evesham on the Stratford Avon. We had to do these backwards and turning above the lock is not always easy. We were lucky as low flow had caused the hydro generator at Evesham to be turned off.

................Dave

Plenty of 70 foot hireboats been built. Of late most are 68/9.

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On 3/5/2018 at 01:39, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I've never had a surveyor measure the width. Not properly accurately anyway. They just look at it and say "narrow boat"!

Don't they carry 8ft long calipers with them? They really ought to prepare their kit more carefully!

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4 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Don't they carry 8ft long calipers with them? They really ought to prepare their kit more carefully!

 

When I've seen a surveyor measuring a boat, it has been a rough and ready effort using a tape measure laid along the ground next to the boat. Accurate to  about +/- 6" I'd say. 

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

When I've seen a surveyor measuring a boat, it has been a rough and ready effort using a tape measure laid along the ground next to the boat. Accurate to  about +/- 6" I'd say. 

I recall my surveyor drawing chalk marks on the ground, level with various parts of the boat. measuring between these marks would have been quite accurate, as far as I could tell. Not rocket science really.

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On 04/03/2018 at 20:35, zenataomm said:

Marinas etc do go for overall length (inc. fenders ) when charging.

When you buy your boat your surveyor will measure it length and width. If it turns out to be close to 70ft then you certainly need to be aware.

 

Lift or remove them your in a marina you ant going no where so why have them out if cost you more.

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On 08/03/2018 at 00:03, Richard10002 said:

I recall my surveyor drawing chalk marks on the ground, level with various parts of the boat. measuring between these marks would have been quite accurate, as far as I could tell. Not rocket science really.

 

I'm deeply interested in how he managed this with any accuracy. I'd say each mark was probably only accurate to +/- about 2 or 3". 

How do you know they were "quite accurate"?

How did he draw marks on the loose gravel of most hard standing anyway!

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43 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm deeply interested in how he managed this with any accuracy. I'd say each mark was probably only accurate to +/- about 2 or 3". 

How do you know they were "quite accurate"?

How did he draw marks on the loose gravel of most hard standing anyway!

A nuclear physicist and a joiner were in a pub one night discussing their jobs.

"In my field", boasted the physicist, "We have to be accurate to within one-millionth of a metre!"

"Well that wouldn't be any good for me", replied the joiner, "I have to be bob on!"

 

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8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm deeply interested in how he managed this with any accuracy. I'd say each mark was probably only accurate to +/- about 2 or 3". 

How do you know they were "quite accurate"?

How did he draw marks on the loose gravel of most hard standing anyway!

I doubt it would be accurate at all. The only way I can see to be accurate would be out the water measured nose to tail along baseplate and add on the pointy bit. I had a " Seventy footer "? that I took through Thorne lock, if the boat had literaly been one inch longer it would not have got through so how accurate was Steve Hudson for one with his measurements as on some locations it makes a very big difference.

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6 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

and add on the pointy bit.

And given the pointy bit is going to be 3' 6" away horizontally and about 5' vertically away from the side of the baseplate you have just measured along, a shedload of dicking about with a spirit level or plumb bob and a really large set square will be necessary. Neither of which I bet you remembered to bring with you!

Similar happens at the stern. 

I really don't think anyone claiming measuring a boat length accurately is easy, has ever done it.

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18 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And given the pointy bit is going to be 3' 6" away horizontally and about 5' vertically away from the side of the baseplate you have just measured along, a shedload of dicking about with a spirit level or plumb bob and a really large set square will be necessary. Neither of which I bet you remembered to bring with you!

Similar happens at the stern. 

I really don't think anyone claiming measuring a boat length accurately is easy, has ever done it.

Can you not measure it with one of those infrequent red thingies cousins? You know the ones with the laser guided laser. Put the bow up against the gate. Stand at the blunt end  and fire. Read off distance. Get out calculator. Convert to feet and inches.

Tune in tomorrow when you will hear Dr Bob say "where did I put my laser guided laser measurement thingy?"

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19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Can you not measure it with one of those infrequent red thingies cousins? You know the ones with the laser guided laser. Put the bow up against the gate. Stand at the blunt end  and fire. Read off distance. Get out calculator. Convert to feet and inches.

 

 

What gate? The boat is out of the water on he hard standing!

Its not impossible, just involves a fair bit of faffing about to measure a boat accurately. I was challenging (iirc) someone several million posts back who asserted it was easy for a surveyor to measure a boat accurately when it was out of the water so why don’t they do it? I disagree it is easy, It involves some imagination and effort and equipment or the result is anything but accurate. 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

What gate? The boat is out of the water on he hard standing!

Its not impossible, just involves a fair bit of faffing about to measure a boat accurately. I was challenging (iirc) someone several million posts back who asserted it was easy for a surveyor to measure a boat accurately when it was out of the water so why don’t they do it? I disagree it is easy, It involves some imagination and effort and equipment or the result is anything but accurate. 

 

Bring the gate to the boat!!!:P

Com'on. Not rocket science. Dangle a bit of string with a weight from front of boat. Lay a plank at right angles to boat. Use some bits of string to get it 90deg. Pythagoras managed it! Go to the blunt end. Shine the laser. Blind a few local ducks. Get calculator out........... Hardest part is converting from metric to imperial.

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2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Bring the gate to the boat!!!:P

Com'on. Not rocket science. Dangle a bit of string with a weight from front of boat. Lay a plank at right angles to boat. Use some bits of string to get it 90deg. Pythagoras managed it! Go to the blunt end. Shine the laser. Blind a few local ducks. Get calculator out........... Hardest part is converting from metric to imperial.

 

Like I keep saying and as you once again illustrate, a fair bit of faffing about. Not something surveyors are noted for being willing to do.

So, from reading your method it appears the equipment the surveyor needs to remember bring is:

1) Tape measure
2) Lock gate
3) String
4) Weight
5) Plank
6) Laser
7) Calculator

Should easily have it measured accurately in less than a day. 

P.S. have you ever tried to use a plumb bob outside, Bob (:giggles:)? The slightest breath of wind has it swinging all over the plaice. (For Cod's hake, I find myself muttering under my breath when this happens). 

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All this discussion about laser guided laser distance devices is interesting. You can get the cheap ones for as little as £50 ...but maybe £100 would be better. Surely a surveyor would invest in one of these?

When we are cruising up and down the cut, I often wonder if we would be able to wind in certain places as a number of winding holes do not have the dimensions marked on Nicholsons (other maps are available). Having one of these cheap ones might be useful for all us newbies to give us more confidence of winding in places that only just look big enough to turn. I KNOW, all you old wrinklies who have been at it for decades can turn a boat with 3mm to spare (Sorry mrsmelly, 1/8th inch) .........but I can't.

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9 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Having one of these cheap ones might be useful for all us newbies to give us more confidence of winding in places that only just look big enough to turn.

Don't do it Dr Bob,it will just be another useless gadget onboard that you don't need. Besides you will probably pick up the thermometer by mistake and end up measuring the temperature of the bank instead.

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6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Like I keep saying and as you once again illustrate, a fair bit of faffing about. Not something surveyors are noted for being willing to do.

So, from reading your method it appears the equipment the surveyor needs to remember bring is:

1) Tape measure
2) Lock gate
3) String
4) Weight
5) Plank
6) Laser
7) Calculator

Should easily have it measured accurately in less than a day. 

P.S. have you ever tried to use a plumb bob outside, Bob (:giggles:)? The slightest breath of wind has it swinging all over the plaice. (For Cod's hake, I find myself muttering under my breath when this happens). 

I think you are over complicating it. If he has the laser, he doesnt need the tape measure. He can leave the lock gate in his car. If the string is big enough he can use the plank as a weight. The calculator is in his phone which he is carrying anyway. Will he have his lunch with him? It does seem to be quite an important feature of a boat to measure.

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11 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

All this discussion about laser guided laser distance devices is interesting. You can get the cheap ones for as little as £50 ...but maybe £100 would be better. Surely a surveyor would invest in one of these?

 

Utterly useless for the job. Where would you hold it, and how would it know you want the measure to the prow of the boat (which will be out of sight of the stern)?

Any answer you come up with will still involve twerping about with planks, boards, right angle measuring etc etc....

And for winding, I don't think they can tell you if the water is deep enough, there....

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21 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

So, from reading your method it appears the equipment the surveyor needs to remember bring is:

1) Tape measure
2) Lock gate
3) String
4) Weight
5) Plank
6) Laser
7) Calculator

And a duck. 

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8 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Don't do it Dr Bob,it will just be another useless gadget onboard that you don't need. Besides you will probably pick up the thermometer by mistake and end up measuring the temperature of the bank instead.

It could be worse, I could pick up the laser guided laser distance thingy and measure the distance from my chair to the stove flue and get worried because it only shows 2.8

.....but I need to have useless gadgets on board to make my baby equaliser fan feel better.:D

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11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Utterly useless for the job. Where would you hold it, and how would it know you want the measure to the prow of the boat (which will be out of sight of the stern)?

Any answer you come up with will still involve twerping about with planks, boards, right angle measuring etc etc....

And for winding, I don't think they can tell you if the water is deep enough, there....

er...point it at something in the middle of the roof, visible from both ends... but then you need an 'O' level in maths? Or mark the ground as they do now but do away with the tape measure. Quicker, easier, more accurate.

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5 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

er...point it at something in the middle of the roof, visible from both ends... but then you need an 'O' level in maths? Or mark the ground as they do now but do away with the tape measure. Quicker, easier, more accurate.

 

Like what?

As I keep saying, it always involves faffing about. 

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