Aceleron - repurposed lithium batteries for boaters

[Up-Side-Down]

17 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

oh yeah I remember them Eley jobbies suddenly appearing a few years back as the saviour of humanity in boats ........what did happen to them?

Came out with a sealed version .......... and then went into liquidation as I understand it!

[Slim]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 15:17, rusty69 said:

The one that really gets in my head is "brown girl in the rain"Tra la la la la. From that film touching the void.

 

Oops sorry.

Wasn't that originally released by Boney M ? My wife used teach the niece of one of them.

Even more sorry  

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, Slim said:

Wasn't that originally released by Boney M ? My wife used teach the niece of one of them.

Even more sorry  

One of my fave bands.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Slim said:

Wasn't that originally released by Boney M ? My wife used teach the niece of one of them.

Even more sorry  

Yes.

Thanks.I finally manage to get that out of my head after 3 sleepless nights only for it to arise again like a repeating vindaloo

[rasputin]

12 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Yes.

Thanks.I finally manage to get that out of my head after 3 sleepless nights only for it to arise again like a repeating vindaloo

ah. there is some justice then, whenever you see my name, you will think of that song, or maybe I should put a post up with the the title of that song everytime I see the word ecofan on a thread where it is not important.

Edited March 4, 2018 by rasputin

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, rasputin said:

ah. there is some justice then, whenever you see my name, you will think of that song, or maybe I should put a post up with the the title of that song everytime I see the word ecofan.

"By the rivers of eco-fan ..."

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, rasputin said:

ah. there is some justice then, whenever you see my name, you will think of that song, or maybe I should put a post up with the the title of that song everytime I see the word ecofan.

Well, yes feel free, but like a lot of my posts,it was just poor attempt at humour.

[Johny London]

Not heard from the guys at Acceleron, but I've mailed them, summing up our requirements and concerns, so I will let you know what the response is.

In the meantime, Jono is making (somewhat lengthy) progress...

 

I must say, this level of install does look a tad daunting - not to mention costly.

[Boater Sam]

Smart but I did mine similarly 20 years ago.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Boater Sam
rephrase

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Smart but I did mine similarly 20 years ago.

You installed Lithium batteries 20 years ago ?

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, Johny London said:

In the meantime, Jono is making (somewhat lengthy) progress...

And gives a plug to our very own GrahamM

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

And gives a plug to our very own GrahamM

What ever happened to him?

He used to be so full of ... advice.

[WotEver]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

What ever happened to him?

He used to be so full of ... advice.

He went where his style is more appreciated (and mine isn’t  ). The 12V Faceache group. 

[Johny London]

I had a chat with Kevin from Aceleron today. What I learned was that they build the batteries themselves, from either new cells, or repurposed grade "A, b or c." I presume there is some industry standardisation as to cell sizes/capacities etc else this woudn't be viable. And the batteries they would supply to marine use would include built in bms. The settings of which can be custom supplied to suite the requirements of the installation (or so I understood) so yes, "drop in" replacement could be possible. The bms can be smart - sending data straight back to Aceleron who monitor the cells conditions for you - or dumber - cell condition can be downloaded onto an sd card. Or somewhere inbetween, where pc hookup is possible.

Price wise, he thought £350 a battery (100a/h). But said that they should only be discharged to 30-40%, (remaining capacity) so it doesn't leave the kind of capacity I had dreamed of!

Apparently, different technologies are on offer but we can certainly have LifePo4 which he agreed were safer - though he did agree that being a new technology it is to a certain extent unproven, safety wise. Apparently they have some sort of bs rating. He went on to say that their batteries are designed to have the individual cells replaced, rather than the whole battery, at its end of life, though I wonder would that be practical if they did last many years (for example, a better technology of cell might exist by then and require a different bms?).

He is going to send me spec and prices, and expressed an interest in my testing a set out for them, so I'll keep you guys posted.

I'm not sure if these will be the ones I eventually go for - but the technology is definitely moving on.

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Price wise, he thought £350 a battery (100a/h). But said that they should only be discharged to 30-40%, (remaining capacity) so it doesn't leave the kind of capacity I had dreamed of!

Are these the ones that should (ideally) only charged to 80% SoC ?

If so it would appear that you only have about 40% usable capacity compared to 50% with FLAs.

I was originally under the impression that you needed less of these batteries, when compared to FLAs which was part of the justification for the 6x (or more) cost increase, it now looks as if in fact you need more.

[Robbo]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are these the ones that should (ideally) only charged to 80% SoC ?

If so it would appear that you only have about 40% usable capacity compared to 50% with FLAs.

I was originally under the impression that you needed less of these batteries, when compared to FLAs which was part of the justification for the 6x (or more) cost increase, it now looks as if in fact you need more.

No reason why you shouldn’t charge to 100%, they just don’t like been kept at 100%.  If your off-grid you’ll rarely be at 100% for long periods. 

[MtB]

42 minutes ago, Robbo said:

No reason why you shouldn’t charge to 100%, they just don’t like been kept at 100%.  If your off-grid you’ll rarely be at 100% for long periods. 

 

Yes there is. If you aim to charge to 100% and overshoot even slightly, an expensively wrecked battery can easily result according to this chap here IIRC: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

This seem a most excellent reason in my book never to charge to 100%

[Johny London]

I would have thought that the bms was supposed to take care of everything. When we charge our phones, we don't worry about all this charge nonsense - it goes from 0-100% and thats all we need to know. Whether in reality the cell(s) hold more than that or still have some charge left is not of concern to the user. And so it should be thus for drop in lithium batteries on a boat. I decree it so

[Robbo]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes there is. If you aim to charge to 100% and overshoot even slightly, an expensively wrecked battery can easily result according to this chap here IIRC: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

This seem a most excellent reason in my book never to charge to 100%

The BMS is too stop them been overcharged (as well a other things).  

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Robbo said:

The BMS is too stop them been overcharged (as well a other things).  

 

indeed it is. 

Blind faith in electronics being 100% reliable is rather quaint. But then I don't suppose you encounter electronics failures almost every day in your working life like I do. 

I'd prefer not to trust the health of my £2k worth of batteries to this magical BMS. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

indeed it is. 

Blind faith in electronics being 100% reliable is rather quaint. But then I don't suppose you encounter electronics failures almost every day in your working life like I do. 

I'd prefer not to trust the health of my £2k worth of batteries to this magical BMS. 

My old dad just got some lithium batteries with his expensive new glider. Since reading up on them, he has been taking them to bed with him to keep them warm whilst charging

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

indeed it is. 

Blind faith in electronics being 100% reliable is rather quaint. But then I don't suppose you encounter electronics failures almost every day in your working life like I do. 

I'd prefer not to trust the health of my £2k worth of batteries to this magical BMS. 

I work for an engineering company in the electronics industry and counter failures almost everyday.  I would trust the batteries manufacturer BMS rather than an any external battery monitor to tell me what the state of charge is.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Robbo said:

I work for an engineering company in the electronics industry and counter failures almost everyday.  I would trust the batteries manufacturer BMS rather than an any external battery monitor to tell me what the state of charge is.

 

Excellent. Rather you than me.

I wouldn't trust a battery monitor either.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Excellent. Rather you than me.

I wouldn't trust a battery monitor either.

Wot about a Smartguage ?

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Wot about a Smartguage ?

They're not accurate on lithiums apparently, so Mikes one might be ok