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Land Rovers can drive on water.


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3 hours ago, Bewildered said:

Or first month driving an articulated lorry so they see how much room is required. Cyclists should also drive them so they finally understand what is meant by a "blind spot"

On the same token all drivers should have to do some cycling and see how vulnerable they are. Whilst being  passed at 60 mph 6 inches away.

Or see how easy it is to get knocked off when a vehicle pulls out of a junction.

I agree with you but it works both ways.

 

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5 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes quite. Four wheel drive simply means four wheel skid when in the hands of most drivers. You will be surprised to know that many people do not even know what the differential does to drive wheels and how it moves drive. People also believe ABS shortens stopping distances and makes the car safer. The list is endless. People mainly pass a very very very basic driving lesson aged 17 ish and have zero further training throughout their life and insist they are " Good " drivers. Many driver training courses exist to many differing levels but people in the main don't take advantage of them and some are free but the ones that are payable and the free ones teach everyone who does them things they had no clue about.

A few years ago now, I tested this on a skid pan. Cadence braking beat ABS every time.

It is very true that a lot of people do not realise that 4WD makes little difference to cornering and braking. (None to braking, and, TBH, I much prefer a predictable FWD or RWD drive in slippy, hard surface, conditions.)

 

 

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My Landy story:   Many years ago a friend had an ex-army swb Lightweight.   Due to a petrol leak it had a quite dramatic fire under the bonnet - well under it until the aly bonnet melted through.   Insurance co. wrote it off and I offered £100 for the salvage, which the insurers agreed to.  Although the damage looked dramatic, I had felt the top hose which still had water in it so I reasoned that the engine wasn't damaged.

I made up a replacement loom for under the bonnet, replaced the carb and a few other bits cheaply with secondhand parts and pop-riveted a piece of aly over the hole in the bonnet - lightweight landrover bonnets were hard to come by.

I ran it for a couple of years and then sold it for £600.

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9 hours ago, Iain_S said:

A few years ago now, I tested this on a skid pan. Cadence braking beat ABS every time.

It is very true that a lot of people do not realise that 4WD makes little difference to cornering and braking. (None to braking, and, TBH, I much prefer a predictable FWD or RWD drive in slippy, hard surface, conditions.)

 

 

The problem is cost in reality. I am lucky in many ways in that I was taught advanced and pursuit driving whilst in the Police on an extensive course. We did skid pan stuff on a variety of occasions and drove all manner of cars front/rear/ 4 wheel drive etc etc. We were taught heel and toe and cadence braking as a matter of course we had landrovers but luckily I only had to drive one on a couple of occasions we also had lots of Range rovers, the proper ones with v8 petrol engines. Years later I became a DOT driving instructor, I can safely say I have forgotten more about safe driving techniques than most people will ever know. I wouldn't have done all this on my own because of the cost though. If people were trained properly there would be less problems but the cost would be billions so is unenforceable. Just as a side note for those interested its dual braking surfaces that catch most people out in bad weather.

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On 14/12/2017 at 18:36, Bewildered said:

Personally I think that before a provisional licence is even issued everyone should be made to sit a basic IQ test. The roads would be a lot less congested 

I think re-testing every 3-5  years is the way forward. 

After all most professions where a mistake can kill require the practitioner to prove competence periodically.

If they ramped up the pass criteria it could be used to control congestion too.

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34 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I think re-testing every 3-5  years is the way forward. 

After all most professions where a mistake can kill require the practitioner to prove competence periodically.

If they ramped up the pass criteria it could be used to control congestion too.

Its been talked about in the industry for many years. Driving instructers were consulted ( I was ) prior to the ban on hand held mobile fone useage for their input. The evidence all pointed strongly to banning the useage of all mobile fones as hands free are nearly as bad as the rest. The reason hands free were allowed was not because the powers that be concluded they are safe it was simply because after consultation with user groups and the police it was shown it would have been un policable and a farce so we have people using hands free ( why? ) we simply never need to use a fone when driving but numpties still use them. This is the reason re testing has not been introduced it would simply be a nightmare both financialy and logisticaly to implement. Remember everyone you ask will tell you they are a good driver anyway.

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They ought to ban the use of complicated radio's and satnavs too, you frequently see folk fiddling about with them going along.  Much safer to spread big map on the steering wheel to study whilst driving along as its closer to the windscreen so just a little eye adjustment is needed to look out.   Door side mirrors ears are another dangerous inovation, in most vehicles you have to turn the head a bit to the side and take the eyes off the road to look in ithem. The old spring loaded wing mounted mirrors are much safer, only a slight glance to the side required to look in them.    Stupid side door mirrors are big big business now as they're always getting busted, so they'll never be abolished.  Two giant SUV's side by side with these door ears stickin out present a barrier and obstruction to folk trying to pass between.

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5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

They ought to ban the use of complicated radio's and satnavs too, you frequently see folk fiddling about with them going along.  Much safer to spread big map on the steering wheel to study whilst driving along as its closer to the windscreen so just a little eye adjustment is needed to look out.   Door side mirrors ears are another dangerous inovation, in most vehicles you have to turn the head a bit to the side and take the eyes off the road to look in ithem. The old spring loaded wing mounted mirrors are much safer, only a slight glance to the side required to look in them.    Stupid side door mirrors are big big business now as they're always getting busted, so they'll never be abolished.  Two giant SUV's side by side with these door ears stickin out present a barrier and obstruction to folk trying to pass between.

I can't stand people who have their sat nav riht in the middle of the screen.

 

The view that blocks is unbelievable.

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49 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Its been talked about in the industry for many years. Driving instructers were consulted ( I was ) prior to the ban on hand held mobile fone useage for their input. The evidence all pointed strongly to banning the useage of all mobile fones as hands free are nearly as bad as the rest. The reason hands free were allowed was not because the powers that be concluded they are safe it was simply because after consultation with user groups and the police it was shown it would have been un policable and a farce so we have people using hands free ( why? ) we simply never need to use a fone when driving but numpties still use them. This is the reason re testing has not been introduced it would simply be a nightmare both financialy and logisticaly to implement. Remember everyone you ask will tell you they are a good driver anyway.

Exactly why we need periodic retesting.

Cost will be born by drivers.

I agree regarding mobile phones. In my experience some people prioritise the phone call over driving, whilst a few prioritise driving over the phone call.

Before the ban on hands free mobiles, mmy company expected me to participate in conference calls whilst driving. I was often asked why I had stopped talking during them. It was because I was concentrating on the driving. I was glad when attitudes changed and the company policy changed to no calls whilst driving.

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16 minutes ago, Athy said:

In what way is using a "hands-free" mobile phone while driving any more dangerous than having a conversation with your passenger?

I'm sure there must be a reason, but I can't imagine what it may be.

One reason that occurs to me is as follows.   In a conversation in car if you need to break off and concentrate the passenger can easily understand why, over a phone they can't.  Couple that with the fact many calls taken in cars are to do with work the drive will be thinking and concentrating on two things at once.   A conversation with a passenger is generally lighter and doesn't require deep thought or concentration.

At least that is how I would see it.

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19 minutes ago, Athy said:

In what way is using a "hands-free" mobile phone while driving any more dangerous than having a conversation with your passenger?

I'm sure there must be a reason, but I can't imagine what it may be.

You obviously haven't been in a car with my mrs as passenger 

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