bigcol Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Getting prepared for motoring down to Marsworth for drydocking blacking etc. noticed that the left hand battery light doesn't come on when ingnition comes on, but comes on when engine is running i have 2 battery lights, this is the left side one for domestics the right hand light works as it should. so had the alternator stripped and checked by auto electrician and this is okay Back on, same problem cant think what else at the time we were connected to shore power, also solar panel is on batterys fully charged. the batterys are saying fully charged on the meter inside but the left battery light still doesn't come on when just ignition is switched on when engine is running light comes on, and seems to get brighter when increasing revs. Any thoughts please col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I don't fully understand your symptoms, especially the light on when engine running. Have you made any wiring changes recently? The domestic charging light is most likely fed via a relay so that it is only activated when the ignition is on, it is possible that this has a failed. ...............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Loose/broken connection or open circuit in cable (look in big main multi-plug) allowing the alternator to back feed through the field diodes and try to charge the battery bank. However I would still expect the lamp to come on when the ignition is turned on. Much depends upon exactly how that alternator warning lamp is wired. If via a relay energised from the other battery/ignition switch then it could be a relay fault but then I do not see how the lamp could come on with the engine running. Check that multi-plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Is it a red light or a green light? What did it do before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, mross said: Is it a red light or a green light? What did it do before? Are you suggesting that the colour of the light influences its reliability ? I've got a red light and a green light, the red is the conventional charging light, the green is the Adverc status light, I have found them both equally reliable, but I sort of like the red one better. What are your thoughts on blue lights? ...................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I suspect Mr R is thinking one may be the oil pressure warning lamp. Its been confused with a charge lamp many times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Nibble Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Not unusual. You have lost the ignition supply to the lamp. When the alternator kicks in it feeds back through the light and finds a negative through other ignition dependant stuff on the same circuit. What else isn't working? Check fuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ist photo nothing on 2nd photo ignition on, showing only one of the battery lights on, should be the 2 always have been 2 on with ignition 3rd photo engine now on and running showing that the light that should have come on,now is on with the engine running this shouldn't be. both battery lights suppose to come on when ignition only on but gos out when engine is running. As like any other vehcle, only coming on as a warning that something's wrong with the charging system col ps have checked the wiring,but will check again thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I take what looks like a D under the second down lamp to indicate domestic charge so the lamp that is operating in reverse of its usual mode is the engine charge warning lamp. Both Sir N and myself have suggested it is likely to be related to back feeding. I go with Sir N in that it could be no supply to the lamp when the ignition is turned on but I am not sure how the alternator energises, but some will self energise. I also think Beta may fit a parallel resistor to give low speed cut in this would energise the alternator.. As the engine starts it means there is a feed into the ignition switch and out to the start terminal. This then points to a faulty/resistive switch connection to the aux terminal. Take the thin warning lamp wire off the alternator (make sure you get this right), turn the ignition on and connect that wire to some clean metal on the engine. the lamp should come on. If not either the bulb is blown, the cable between lamp and alternator is broken, or there is no feed to the lamp from the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 6 hours ago, dmr said: Are you suggesting that the colour of the light influences its reliability ? I've got a red light and a green light, the red is the conventional charging light, the green is the Adverc status light, I have found them both equally reliable, but I sort of like the red one better. What are your thoughts on blue lights? ...................Dave I used to like " Red light zones " as a youngster in the Royal Navy years ago. Especialy the one in Copenhagen if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, mrsmelly said: I used to like " Red light zones " as a youngster in the Royal Navy years ago. Especialy the one in Copenhagen if I recall. I used to live in Southampton, not far from the famous Derby Road, and used to walk that way quite often (to the pubs down in St Mary's of course). One time a big American warship was visiting and they had their own military police out supervising the queues (and not for the pubs). ....And they really did have red lights in the windows. I reckon BigCol needs to be careful where he moors till he can get that red light to go out ................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, dmr said: I used to live in Southampton, not far from the famous Derby Road, and used to walk that way quite often (to the pubs down in St Mary's of course). One time a big American warship was visiting and they had their own military police out supervising the queues (and not for the pubs). ....And they really did have red lights in the windows. I reckon BigCol needs to be careful where he moors till he can get that red light to go out ................Dave The best known one for us matelots was known as " The Gut " it was in Malta and a hell of a night out, The hilarious thing about it is the real name of the street was/is Strait street I took my missus to look for it years ago and stumbled on it after a gap of some 25 years and looked up and there was the name still in the usual blue street signs that they have. All the bars etc wre closed and the whole area was being " rejuvenated " shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: I take what looks like a D under the second down lamp to indicate domestic charge so the lamp that is operating in reverse of its usual mode is the engine charge warning lamp. Both Sir N and myself have suggested it is likely to be related to back feeding. I go with Sir N in that it could be no supply to the lamp when the ignition is turned on but I am not sure how the alternator energises, but some will self energise. I also think Beta may fit a parallel resistor to give low speed cut in this would energise the alternator.. As the engine starts it means there is a feed into the ignition switch and out to the start terminal. This then points to a faulty/resistive switch connection to the aux terminal. Take the thin warning lamp wire off the alternator (make sure you get this right), turn the ignition on and connect that wire to some clean metal on the engine. the lamp should come on. If not either the bulb is blown, the cable between lamp and alternator is broken, or there is no feed to the lamp from the switch. Can't be a blown bulb as both are both are shown to be on in the pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Any more ideas at all folks, I've checked th plug and the wires, the one light is doing the opposite to what is suppose to do col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 hours ago, dmr said: I used to live in Southampton, not far from the famous Derby Road, and used to walk that way quite often (to the pubs down in St Mary's of course). One time a big American warship was visiting and they had their own military police out supervising the queues (and not for the pubs). ....And they really did have red lights in the windows. I reckon BigCol needs to be careful where he moors till he can get that red light to go out ................Dave I use to moor a boat at itchen marine. And walk to the shops, didn't see many lights but had a few offers lol col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) I was a motorcycle despatch rider in London in my youth and often had deliveries and collections in Soho. I lost count of the number of offers I received - you'd think that with a motorcycle helmet under my arm and a package in my mitts it would be pretty obvious that I was working but it never seemed to bother the pimps. As for Col's ignition light it's a bit difficult to sort at a distance. Certainly a wire's come off somewhere, or a poor connection, in the feed to that charging light. Edited August 13, 2017 by WotEver Spillung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 12 hours ago, Flyboy said: Can't be a blown bulb as both are both are shown to be on in the pictures. I gave the results and interpretation for a simple test for the benefit of all who may read it. I had assumed the OP would be bright enough to know it is very unlikely to be a blow bulb. And no, it does not have to be a bad connection in the feed to the charging lamp, in fact it is less likely to be that because the lamp lights up. It could be a bad connection anywhere that is preventing battery voltage reaching the aux terminal on the ignition switch. If the lamp was dimmer when the engine was running it could even be a problem with the main charging lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted August 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: I gave the results and interpretation for a simple test for the benefit of all who may read it. I had assumed the OP would be bright enough to know it is very unlikely to be a blow bulb. And no, it does not have to be a bad connection in the feed to the charging lamp, in fact it is less likely to be that because the lamp lights up. It could be a bad connection anywhere that is preventing battery voltage reaching the aux terminal on the ignition switch. If the lamp was dimmer when the engine was running it could even be a problem with the main charging lead. Hi Tony thank you for your post, and yes I fortunately am bright enough to know that the bulb wasn't blown lol it works albeit the wrong way round. thankyou all for your imput, and suggestions, I do appreciate all your advice and help. to be fair when I start the engine, both lights stay off, good thing, it's only when I rev it up high that the red light comes on and stays on even when dropping down the revs so yes don't know where to look, photos are in sequence engine started and running, low revs, photo 2 highrevs, photo 3 back to low revs light stays on Ps I cannot see a d near the lights, = domestics ? thankyou col Edited August 14, 2017 by bigcol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J R ALSOP Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 The "D" is on the battery symbol below the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 That all makes sense because the alternator will not energise without the warning lamp on unless you rev it(and even then many will not). If you feel up to it get at the back of the ignition switch and identify the terminal that feeds the warning lamp. It is normally a pair of 6mm blades with more than one wire on it. One wire will run to the warning lamp and the other(s), if there are any to, to the other warning lamps. Take the warning lamp wire off and tape it to the main positive terminal, usually a single thick wire, possibly brown on a 9mm blade. My guess is that the lamp will now come on. Now start and rev the engine. My guess is that the lamp will go out. If so its a faulty ignition switch. If not then it is likely to be a problem on the main alternator charging lead. Open circuit or highly resistive. As I said before check the multi-way connector on the main wiring harness between the engine and panel. I think Beta also fit an inline fuse tucked away beside the main harness around the starter motor area. I do not think this has blown otherwise I doubt you would have a feed to the other lights etc. What is happening is that something is preventing one of two circuits working. The first is the feed to the other warning lamps from the ignition switch. Because all the lamps and any other auxiliaries would not be able to get current from the batteries they get supplied by current back feeding from the alternator field diodes through the warning lamp in an attempt to supply them. The second is a fully or partial open circuit between the alternator and battery. In this case the battery would supply the current to start the engine but the alternator's main output could not charge the battery so once again the field diodes back feed current via the warning lamp bulb in an attempt to charge the battery. Your symptoms do not fit either scenario perfectly in my view so then there is a question of how the second alternator is energised because unless a warning lamp relay is used it could be a faulty alternator causing the other one to back feed through the warning lamp circuit to charge the "other" battery bank. I cant help much more without being on the boat to test it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 As others have said, it is probably a dodgy connection somewhere, allowing back feeding of the bulb from somewhere else. I'd suggest unplugging the main engine connector multi pin plug and socket and taking a look in there for any corrosion. Make, break and remake this connector a few times to clean the contacts. This multi pin plug seems to cause problems on Beta engines. I tape mine together with insulating tape to prevent engine vibration shaking it apart over time. After that I would take off the panel (I have the same type, the simple Beta Marine one, without oil pressure and water temperature gauges) and look for loose, or dodgy wires and connections. Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I have had this, In my case its when the batteries are fully charged and the solar is still giving a charge my red light comes on, if I turn the kettle on or some other large equipment it does the same, however soon as batteries are up to charge domestic red light comes on! Its done it for years and has been fine, everything is ok if batteries are down on charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted August 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, J R ALSOP said: The "D" is on the battery symbol below the light. Blaady hell !! Lol I've had the boat 6 years. Never never noticed it!!!! But that would make the problem bulb the engine battery?? again looking at the wrong charging side col Tony and Jen. I will today be getting the plugs checked and wires and wd40 out got to confirm but I was told the ist light was domestics but seems as though it's the engine battery. My mistake doh Peter. That was what I thought as I'm on home mooring, shore power, and solar charging batterys and way keeping them topped up. So the engine side when alternates on are sensing a over charge sort of thing reverse. But never was taken up, so I thought my thoughts were silly lol col Edited August 14, 2017 by bigcol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, bigcol said: Blaady hell !! Lol I've had the boat 6 years. Never never noticed it!!!! But that would make the problem bulb the engine battery?? again looking at the wrong charging side col Tony and Jen. I will today be getting the plugs checked and wires and wd40 out got to confirm but I was told the ist light was domestics but seems as though it's the engine battery. My mistake doh Look on the bright side. There is only one or two engine start batteries so if problems with the batteries then its going to be cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted August 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 I had a look at the electrics at the back of my control panel re wiring short re alternated light coming on with engine on. what is the white long thing, because when the engine running it got really hot!! what it it ? and is it suppose to get hot, or is it broken which is why my starter alternates light comes on when engine on, but off when ignition on. col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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