Diesel Be Done For?

[Machpoint005]

Interesting that the government think so highly of our newish 70mpg or 150 bhp diesel Mini that they only charge £30/yr VED. Doesn't really stack up with the latest media round of anti-diesel hype.

 

That's all going to change in April 2017. New Wilmslow Tractors will be paying several hundred squid a year in VED.

[GUMPY]

Not all electric vehicles are exempt under the new tax rules. The Tesla will be taxed because it costs over £40k that's just wrong.

[Machpoint005]

Not all electric vehicles are exempt under the new tax rules. The Tesla will be taxed because it costs over £40k that's just wrong.

 

Why? It still causes pollution and contributes to climate change unless ALL the electricity it uses comes from renewable sources.

[Murflynn]

. It was a good programme, that 18500l, 75000hp marine diesel was colossal, two and a half thousand times the power of our Lister Petter lump!

we used huge Wartsila engines and pumps for crude oil pipeline transportation across wild terrain, for example a 48" pipeline moving heavy viscous crude oil at 1.5m/sec over mountains.

very interesting just moving those beasts to the locations of the pumping stations along unsurfaced rural roads.

 

Why? It still causes pollution and contributes to climate change unless ALL the electricity it uses comes from renewable sources.

there is a lot less pollution and CO2 per KWH if you use electricity generated in a natural gas powered station when compared to a diesel engined vehicle

[widebeamboy]

when you look at the planning application for the new Greenwich superdock for super cruise ships etc the pollution caused by all diesel boats in a year will pail into insignificance as these cruise ships will not use a shoreline, they will all be running massive generatorso onboard.

[cuthound]

Why? It still causes pollution and contributes to climate change unless ALL the electricity it uses comes from renewable sources.

Even then there is the pollution resulting from mining the raw materials, converting the ores to usable metals, manufacturing the car, energy used in the design offices and factory etc.

 

I once read an article that said if these factors are taken into account, the vehicles with a very long production life, such as Land Rover Defender, Jeep Wrangler and the original Mini are the greenest, because there "whole life" energy consumption (and hence pollution) are lower.

[Sir Percy]

My posted question was really about running an engine while moored up in town*. Arthur Brown was nearest the mark:

 

I was on a towpath near a Tesco...a neighbouring boat was pouring a diesel mist over the water and neighbouring gardens

 

It doesn't seem unimaginable that before anything might be done by e.g. the London Mayor, that a local council could take steps in the direction of a ban on moored boats running their engines.

 

Diesel NOx and particulate stories just seem to be in the air right now, I just think it might lead somewhere that impacts on boaters.

 

 

*..and not about banning diesel engines / diesel engines in road vehicles / diesel engines in boats

[Jess--]

Even then there is the pollution resulting from mining the raw materials, converting the ores to usable metals, manufacturing the car, energy used in the design offices and factory etc.

 

I once read an article that said if these factors are taken into account, the vehicles with a very long production life, such as Land Rover Defender, Jeep Wrangler and the original Mini are the greenest, because there "whole life" energy consumption (and hence pollution) are lower.

I think you mean service life rather than production life (I think production life would be how long they were made for whereas service life would be how long a single vehicle would be used for)

[peterboat]

 

That's all going to change in April 2017. New Wilmslow Tractors will be paying several hundred squid a year in VED.

£2300 and odd first year £500 ish for next 4 and then £140 after that

[furnessvale]

 

Why? It still causes pollution and contributes to climate change unless ALL the electricity it uses comes from renewable sources.

Pollution is relative.

 

Another example. Railfreight companies in the UK cannot, at the moment, buy any new heavy haulage diesel locos because EU regulations have been tightened so much that they cannot fit all the scrubbers etc in UK size locos. Fortunately, at the moment they have some spare locos.

 

If this carries on, the situation will be reached where freight will have to go by road for want of a railway engine.

 

Meanwhile, even now, railfreight uses 30% of the diesel and emits 30% of the pollutants than the equivalent movement by road.

 

Joined up thinking would suggest that pollution should be measured by tonne/km of freight moved by whatever mode, but apparently not.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[WotEver]

Railfreight companies in the UK cannot, at the moment, buy any new heavy haulage diesel locos because EU regulations have been tightened so much...

Fortunately that won't affect us in the future.

[cuthound]

I think you mean service life rather than production life (I think production life would be how long they were made for whereas service life would be how long a single vehicle would be used for)

No, I meant production life. A major part of whole life costs is in designing and replacing a new model (all those offices being heated and cooled, so that the designers can produce new models, plus the cost of manufacturing a new model), whereas vehicles with a long production life only need minor updatest until legislation makes them obselete.

 

The original Mini being a good example, being produced for over 40 years, relativey unchanged.

[furnessvale]

Fortunately that won't affect us in the future.

Even as a brexiter I doubt the UK government, which has been at the forefront on environmental matters, will relax things.

 

However, we at least have a chance to lobby government on the matter, which is of no interest to the EU because all their railways have a loading gauge capable of accommodating the necessary scrubbers.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Machpoint005]

>> there is a lot less pollution and CO2 per KWH if you use electricity generated in a natural gas powered station when compared to a diesel engined vehicle

 

Is that kWh at the power station, or at the point of consumption? A lot of energy is wasted in the transmission system.

 

>> The original Mini being a good example, being produced for over 40 years, relatively unchanged.

 

I seem to recall (although it may be an urban myth) that no profit was ever made by the manufacturer from selling a real Mini (ie not a front-wheel drive BMW) because of the huge amount of labour needed to build one.

The point remains, however, that it is environmentally more sound to continue to use an old car, assuming it is properly looked after.

[Robbo]

I seem to recall (although it may be an urban myth) that no profit was ever made by the manufacturer from selling a real Mini (ie not a front-wheel drive BMW) because of the huge amount of labour needed to build one.The point remains, however, that it is environmentally more sound to continue to use an old car, assuming it is properly looked after.

I recall that as well. A friend of the boss wanted one at cost, so he was charged more. :-). It was on one of Jeremy Clarkson series things.

[cereal tiller]

I recall that as well. A friend of the boss wanted one at cost, so he was charged more. :-). It was on one of Jeremy Clarkson series things.

The original Mini was too complex,it made the Ford Anglia look sensible.

 

CT

[Robbo]

The original Mini was too complex,it made the Ford Anglia look sensible.

 

CT

I liked my mini, was fun to drive. Got a Midas Bronze that's on SORN at the moment that I must get back on the road. It uses the mini running gear, it's slightly longer than the mini by about half a foot, same width but only 44 inches high so it feels like your sat on the ground, quite fun to drive as well.

[Jambo]

I think it's unlikely that bans on diesel engines will pass through to boats.

 

Policymakers typically weigh up factors such as environmental impact, availability of alternatives, cost to convert, social impact, historical noteworthiness etc before imposing regulations and I would expect them to bypass boats on that basis. Classic cars that used leaded petrol well beyond when it had essentially been phased out are a prime example of this approach.

 

Having said that, air quality is racing up the agenda faster than any other environmental issue I can think of and local authorities in London are getting twitchy so I always encourage boaters down here to keep their emissions to a minimum. They have bigger fish to fry right now and electrification of road transport will make such a difference to air quality in our cities that I hope it stays that way.

[GUMPY]

 

Why? It still causes pollution and contributes to climate change unless ALL the electricity it uses comes from renewable sources.

Because all the small electric cars will be zero rated, the Tesla is only taxed because of its price.

 

Me I'm staying with my VAG 2l diesel until a decent alternative that I can afford comes along, probably wont be in my lifetime.

[Murflynn]

 

Is that kWh at the power station, or at the point of consumption? A lot of energy is wasted in the transmission system.

 

 

 

2.29% is not significant.

[MtB]

2.29% is not significant.

 

 

I read once that it was closer to 30%. All those long distance underground transmission cables don't cool themselves, apparently!

[tree monkey]

 

 

I read once that it was closer to 30%. All those long distance underground transmission cables don't cool themselves, apparently!

Not just underground cables, in a previous role I was surveying trees next to the National Grid overheads and we had a lot of historical data about line sag under load and some spans could drop 5m under heavy load

Edited January 26, 2017 by tree monkey

[mross]

Nationwide, the transmission and distribution losses are about 5%. Tesla and Leaf owners report that their chargers are about 80% efficient.

[Murflynn]

yeah, sorry, I was quoting the national grid losses.

including local distribution the figure is about 7%, which is still hardly significant when compared with the efficiency of combustion engines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

[mross]

I wonder what the losses are from substation to house? They must be higher than the national average due to the lower voltage,