Generator

[mross]

9/10. I can't decide whether to buy one or not. Smartgauge will tell you SOC but it doesn't tell you what the remaining battery capacity is. do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I have a LINK 10 but it is in the engine 'ole. I want to know how my alternator is performing so I will probably just fit a digital ammeter near the steering position. I have adjusted the regulator from 13.8 to 14.4. This is so I get more charge into the batteries when cruising and I hope to spend less charging when I get back on shore power.

[WotEver]

The simplest way to determine battery capacity is by using an Ah counter (BMV etc) in conjunction with SmartGauge. Starting with batteries that are known to be as close to 100% as you ever go (measured by whatever method you use) you then start a steady discharge at close to 0.05C until SmartGauge reads 50%. Multiply whatever the Ah counter reads by 2. (Or take them to 75% and multiply by 4 etc).

 

You really need an ammeter and a voltmeter. If you're going to buy a SmartGauge then you don't need the voltmeter because SmartGauge includes one.

 

If you're going to buy an Ah counter then you don't need an ammeter because they include one.

[nicknorman]

9/10. I can't decide whether to buy one or not. Smartgauge will tell you SOC but it doesn't tell you what the remaining battery capacity is. do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I have a LINK 10 but it is in the engine 'ole. I want to know how my alternator is performing so I will probably just fit a digital ammeter near the steering position. I have adjusted the regulator from 13.8 to 14.4. This is so I get more charge into the batteries when cruising and I hope to spend less charging when I get back on shore power.

No it doesn't specifically tell you what the remaining battery capacity is but then no meter does (except for the £1k one). However unlike an AH counter is does allow you to get the general idea about your battery health. So if you fully charge your batteries during the day and are used to seeing around 70% the next morning, but over time you start seeing 60% ... then 50% ... with the same usage pattern, you know the batteries are losing capacity. Edited November 25, 2016 by nicknorman

[bizzard]

Learning the cheap and simple digital voltmeter will tell you that, with everything switched off.

[WotEver]

Learning the cheap and simple digital voltmeter will tell you that, with everything switched off.

Yup. And for those prepared to do that there is absolutely no need for a SmartGauge or Ah counter. However not everyone is prepared to do that and not everyone is prepared to turn everything off.

[Geo]

9/10. I can't decide whether to buy one or not. Smartgauge will tell you SOC but it doesn't tell you what the remaining battery capacity is. do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I have a LINK 10 but it is in the engine 'ole. I want to know how my alternator is performing so I will probably just fit a digital ammeter near the steering position. I have adjusted the regulator from 13.8 to 14.4. This is so I get more charge into the batteries when cruising and I hope to spend less charging when I get back on shore power.

 

You could also fully charge the batteries, sync the Link 10 and take the batteries down to 20% SoC on the link, at a rated as near as you can get to a 1/20 of the new capacity of the batteries. Let the batteries stand without charge or discharge for a couple of hours measure the battery voltage and see what the % of charge from that is. If it is 12.1 that is 50% multiply the Link 10 Ah/hr reading by 2 give the total capacity. Needs a bit of maths but cheaper than spending £120.00.

[mross]

I moored up and did not run generator or engine for 48 hours and battery voltage with some load from fridge was 12.2 from memory and AHr deficit was about 130 if I remember correctly. I assumed that my capacity was roughly double this. Not bad for six T-105s of uncertain age.

Edited November 25, 2016 by mross

[Geo]

I moored up and did not run generator or engine for 48 hours and battery voltage with some load from fridge was 12.2 from memory and AHr deficit was about 130 if I remember correct;y. I assumed that my capacity was roughly double this. Not bad for six T-105s of uncertain age.

 

Could have been higher depends on when the fridge last ran

[WotEver]

I moored up and did not run generator or engine for 48 hours and battery voltage with some load from fridge was 12.2 from memory and AHr deficit was about 130 if I remember correct;y. I assumed that my capacity was roughly double this. Not bad for six T-105s of uncertain age.

That's (very roughly) about right then

[WotEver]

 

Just a thought, but...

I have a LINK 10 but it is in the engine 'ole.

Move it?

[Richard10002]

Secondly, how do you charge your batteries (ie what maximum current)? I ask because I do find the tail current is around 1.5% when our SG reaches 100% but we do charge the batteries fast with the 175A alternator and perhaps, if your max current is much lower, that is why we get a lower tail current at 100% than you do (the SG working by means of some voltage x time integrating algorithm).

 

My max current is 80A via a Sterling Inverter Charger driven by a Honda EU20i generator. I'd guess this is more than many, and less than some.

[nicknorman]

My max current is 80A via a Sterling Inverter Charger driven by a Honda EU20i generator. I'd guess this is more than many, and less than some.

Yes you're kind of middle of the range. I find our AH counter gets well ahead of the SG to start with when fast charging, but as 100% is approached they come very close. There is a secret squirrel parameter you can adjust to alter the SoC count-up rate IIRC, but you'd think Gibbo would have set it to match a middle of the road charging rate like your 17% or so.

[peterboat]

 

 

What do we mean by 'full traction' batteries? Are Trojan T105's full traction? I thought they were 'semi traction'.

 

I bought four Yuasa (T105 equivs) the other day for £90 each plus VAT. Hardly any more expensive than leisures.

 

(I chose them over Trojans as the spec sheet specifies a slightly lower charging voltage, better matched to my alternator regulator output voltage.)

Full tractions are normally 2 volt cells, my supplier gives a five year warranty with them, plus he throws in the watering system as well. I have bought 4 x trojans today as well for a boat I bought to sell they cost me £90 each including the vat they are semi tractions or so it says on them. I went for these instead of crap leisure batteries because the price difference isnt big enough for me to waste my money on them. Neil who runs ICBS is not a fan of AGMs and today gave me a bit of a hard time over fitting the Trojans but accepted why I did what I did

[WotEver]

Neil who runs ICBS is not a fan of AGMs and today gave me a bit of a hard time over fitting the Trojans but accepted why I did what I did

Me no understand. If Neil doesn't like AGMs then why did he give you a hard time for fitting Wet semi-tractions?

 

What would he have preferred?

[peterboat]

Me no understand. If Neil doesn't like AGMs then why did he give you a hard time for fitting Wet semi-tractions?

 

What would he have preferred?

Full tractions of course! but because the batteries live in 2 different place on a my broads cruiser full tractions are a no no

[WotEver]

Ahhh, gotcha.

[MtB]

Out of idle curiosity, how much abuse will full traction 2V cells tolerate compared to semi tractions (e.g. Trojans or my Yuasas)?

[WotEver]

Oh... that would be more, Mike.

[MtB]

What does one have to do to one to turtley feck it up?

[WotEver]

I recall Gibbo reporting on here that he was having a real hard time trying to break one. I think it may have been a Rolls. He discharged it really fast down to completely flat repeatedly and still the thing happily recharged to 100%.

 

By comparison he killed a so-called leisure battery with a single cycle.

[peterboat]

Out of idle curiosity, how much abuse will full traction 2V cells tolerate compared to semi tractions (e.g. Trojans or my Yuasas)?

A lot more abuse! electric forklifts often have to be pushed back to the charging points the same used to happen with milk carts.

I have 2 banks of these one is over 10 years old already so they are very cost effective in the long run

[ditchcrawler]

Full tractions of course! but because the batteries live in 2 different place on a my broads cruiser full tractions are a no no

Why couldn't you put the traction batteries in 2 places? you have to connect the ones you have put there.

[peterboat]

Why couldn't you put the traction batteries in 2 places? you have to connect the ones you have put there.

Because then I would have had to buy 12 batteries! I am selling this boat when it has been sorted out and would like it to turn a profit Also the ballasting is maybe set up for this? I know the wiring is all in place for this setup so I have left it nearly standard

[Geo]

A lot more abuse! electric forklifts often have to be pushed back to the charging points the same used to happen with milk carts.

I have 2 banks of these one is over 10 years old already so they are very cost effective in the long run

 

Years ago I did a milk round between jobs, a long country round and had to be towed back a couple of time. Eventually they put a new set in and that ended the towing and shortened the day.

 

I have always been surprised that more of the canal boats do not have traction batteries fitted. They are so much better for boat domestic use in terms of life, sturdiness both mechanically and electrically, and economy. I suppose it comes down to basic cost on day one, but 4000 or so on a 100,000 or so is not that bad.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Geo

[peterboat]

 

Years ago I did a milk round between jobs, a long country round and had to be towed back a couple of time. Eventually they put a new set in and that ended the towing and shortened the day.

 

I have always been surprised that more of the canal boats do not have traction batteries fitted. They are so much better for boat domestic use in terms of life, sturdiness both mechanically and electrically, and economy. I suppose it comes down to basic cost on day one, but 4000 or so on a 100,000 or so is not that bad.

They arnt that expensive if you choose a common size £600 will buy you a 720-750 AH battery bank with leads, bolts, tails and watering system. Why bother with trojans, gels, agms or 110 leisure batteries? Its no good going to PB batteries he charges boat prices Neil charges commercial prices which of course are the right side of reality