''fire in the engine room''

[Anna_Licorice]

Ok, first of all, be gentle we have had a bit of a shock.

 

Moored up fine on our first night. Lazy start to the next morning. Wife turned the key and then engine made an odd noise, then smoke escaped from the exhaust hole and we shut her down- though she wouldn't initially turn off. The smoke smelt electrical right away and was later confirmed to be electrical.

 

We called the RCR and it was unfixable- even if he had all the parts (alternator, starter motor) he would have run into difficulties as we later discovered that the wiring was burnt and the ignition switch unusable.

 

As you can imagine we are quite shaken up by this and not a little sad. We were also on a public holiday, so unable to get help till four days later. We were fully stocked though and optimistically managed to have a great time moored up on the tow path watching the boats go by.

 

So, that's our story so far.

 

How common is this?

 

xx Anna

[RLWP]

That something odd happened with a boat? Not too uncommon

 

I'm liking this bit:

 

 

optimistically managed to have a great time moored up on the tow path watching the boats go by.

 

That sounds like a good outcome

 

Sometimes, things happen. It's all part of owning a boat.

 

Richard

[peterboat]

Are you sorted yet? fingers crossed when these troubles are sorted all will be well for many a year

[Tiggs]

There's a lot of broken down boats, that's how RCR can make a living, surprised they couldn't rig something temporary though - I would have - but maybe H&S would not let them.

 

The most most annoying thing is when you are towing a butty and idiots think it is broken down and make comments about it.

[patty-ann]

Thats scary...glad your ok...so much to learn isn't there.?.but keep posting theres so much help on here...

[colinwilks]

Is this the same boat you were discussing purchasing back in February? If so did the broker or the previous owner give any warranty?

Either way you've been extremely unlucky.

Assuming you get it fixed it's worth locating the manual engine stop lever on the engine. With the electrics shot the stop button will have put put no power to the solenoid that normal pushes this lever, which is probably why your engine didn't want to stop.

[Tiggs]

Is this the same boat you were discussing purchasing back in February? If so did the broker or the previous owner give any warranty?

Either way you've been extremely unlucky.

Assuming you get it fixed it's worth locating the manual engine stop lever on the engine. With the electrics shot the stop button will have put put no power to the solenoid that normal pushes this lever, which is probably why your engine didn't want to stop.

 

Yes, I much prefer manual stops.

[Sir Nibble]

Where are you Anna? There are forum members around who could help with that

[Anna_Licorice]

He couldn't rig anything in the end because the parts were completely fried. Even the wiring.

I'm trying to not take it personally and actually have 'words' with the boat!

 

It did feel like cheating by the tow path as we had a lovely time and just pottered around doing little jobs, eating well and I did quite a few paintings. We have solar panels (but old ones) that kept the batteries a little bit topped up- though we still didn't use the lights at night just incase. (Early romantic nights instead.) We would like to update the solar panels- but all money is now in the engine bay. Sob

 

Here are some paintings I started on my holiday from my exhausting 3 hours cruising on my narrowboat.

 

 

Where are you Anna? There are forum members around who could help with that

Thank you Sir Nibble, the boat is with some mechanics at Heyford Fields marina. We are at home. We hope to have the repairs completed by Thursday to move her closer to Cow Roast on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. But I don't think we can do that amount of cruising in the days we have.

Is this the same boat you were discussing purchasing back in February? If so did the broker or the previous owner give any warranty?
Either way you've been extremely unlucky.

 

No warranty. And as some of you wise souls pointed out the mechanic who had looked at the diesel leak didn't end up fixing it like he said he did. that was spotted by the new mechanics.

[Rob-M]

Do you know what the cause of the burning electrical was...?

[David Mack]

Do you know what the cause of the burning electrical was...?

This escaping:

[Anna_Licorice]

Do you know what the cause of the burning electrical was...?

they think it was a faulty ignition switch. (that was quite hot and smelly after the fire and it has to be replaced)

[alan_fincher]

We called the RCR and it was unfixable- even if he had all the parts (alternator, starter motor) he would have run into difficulties as we later discovered that the wiring was burnt and the ignition switch unusable.

 

Are you suggesting that a well as the ignition switch and cabling being damaged, they also believe the starter motor and alternator are as well?

 

If so, I would seek a second opinion, as it is hard to imagine any normal circumstance where all these different things would have been damaged!

[Anna_Licorice]

 

Are you suggesting that a well as the ignition switch and cabling being damaged, they also believe the starter motor and alternator are as well?

 

If so, I would seek a second opinion, as it is hard to imagine any normal circumstance where all these different things would have been damaged!

Yes, that was the diagnoses of the RCR. Then when the engineers came out they said the same thing as you. But upon investigation the alternator was indeed toast, the starter motor also- the ignition switch was fried and it seems to have burnt through the cabling.

It is the rarity of this that is most worrying. Why it happened and will it happen again.

[alan_fincher]

Yes, that was the diagnoses of the RCR. Then when the engineers came out they said the same thing as you. But upon investigation the alternator was indeed toast, the starter motor also- the ignition switch was fried and it seems to have burnt through the cabling.

It is the rarity of this that is most worrying. Why it happened and will it happen again.

 

I think you need to get those who have diagnosed this to tell you why they believe it has happened.

 

It is perhaps relatively easy to damage an alternator in certain situations, (although I would say most would still be repairable by a firm who does such things, rather than being reduced to scrap).

 

I'm struggling to see how any situation that has reduced an alternator to "toast" could also do it to a stater motor.

 

Unless some other forum member can suggest how, I would be very reluctant to believe that whatever has happened could trash all these things at the same time.

[ditchcrawler]

 

I think you need to get those who have diagnosed this to tell you why they believe it has happened.

 

It is perhaps relatively easy to damage an alternator in certain situations, (although I would say most would still be repairable by a firm who does such things, rather than being reduced to scrap).

 

I'm struggling to see how any situation that has reduced an alternator to "toast" could also do it to a stater motor.

 

Unless some other forum member can suggest how, I would be very reluctant to believe that whatever has happened could trash all these things at the same time.

Maybe the switch welded and the starter just kept cranking, not sure about the alternator .

[Cheshire cat]

I once had a major short to earth on a car on an unfused circuit.The wiring loom insulation quickly melted but the alternator and starter survived the experience.

 

The AA man turned up,raised the bonnet, looked at the mess and declared "Yep, this is what we call a non-runner" and proceeded to get his tow frame out. Repairing the loom was a character building experience.

[colinwilks]

My guess would be that the starter has kept running like Ditchcrawler suggested, and if the alternator was running but disconnected from the batteries I believe this would seriously mess it up, although I'm not sure how long it would have to run disconnected in order to "fry" completely.

[The Boater]

It is quite rare but if the starter solenoid shorts out it can damage the alternater and the wiring loom up to the ignition switch, not only the starter impulse wire but also the wires it runs next to. If you can gain access to different parts of the main loom at various places then carefully pare back the outer insulation to check the condition of all the wires inside. As previous posts suggested get a second opinion. whereabouts are you?

Ian

[alan_fincher]

Maybe the switch welded and the starter just kept cranking, not sure about the alternator .

 

 

My guess would be that the starter has kept running like Ditchcrawler suggested, and if the alternator was running but disconnected from the batteries I believe this would seriously mess it up, although I'm not sure how long it would have to run disconnected in order to "fry" completely.

 

I read it that the OP was probably on board for their "first night and lazy start". Also it read like any electrical fire only happened at the attempt to start the engine next morning.

 

If both (or even either) are the case, it seems unlikely that the engine suddenly cranked over and over before then, (and kept doing so), and they were unaware of it?

 

 

[AndrewIC]

The OP did say the engine made an "odd noise". Starter not stopping?

[Scholar Gypsy]

Just one thought to add: it is worth knowing how to stop the engine if the fuel shut-off solenoid doesn't work.

 

On mine you press a rubbery button on the side. quite hard, and the engine stops. Then hit the isolator to kill all the electrics (unless it has melted in the on position!)

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Just one thought to add: it is worth knowing how to stop the engine if the fuel shut-off solenoid doesn't work.

 

On mine you press a rubbery button on the side. quite hard, and the engine stops. Then hit the isolator to kill all the electrics (unless it has melted in the on position!)

Not sure if I've got a 'rubbery button' anywhere (haven't found it if I have ) but when my stop solenoid failed I just operated it by hand, seemed to have the desired effect.

 

Regarding the original problem, if the starter motor switch seized and left it permanently engaged, given the massive drain that a starter motor takes from the battery, would that not also burn out the alternator as it tried to keep the battery charged? Just a thought.

[RLWP]

Not sure if I've got a 'rubbery button' anywhere (haven't found it if I have:blush: ) but when my stop solenoid failed I just operated it by hand, seemed to have the desired effect.

 

Regarding the original problem, if the starter motor switch seized and left it permanently engaged, given the massive drain that a starter motor takes from the battery, would that not also burn out the alternator as it tried to keep the battery charged? Just a thought.

No. The alternator can only produce up to a certain amount of current. Unless some idiot put too small an output wire on it should never be a problem

 

There's some information missing here, probably because the OP didn't understand the explanation of the problem. I'm not blaming Anna here, some electrical problems get quite involved

 

I avoid electrics when I can

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

Regarding the original problem, if the starter motor switch seized and left it permanently engaged, given the massive drain that a starter motor takes from the battery, would that not also burn out the alternator as it tried to keep the battery charged? Just a thought.

 

I can't see how - an alternator is normally self limiting in the maximum current it can deliver.

 

You would surely know if you had an engine running with the starter motor continually powered, and permanently engaged with the running engine anyway?

 

The OP does not talk about extended unusual noises for a long period of running - or that was not how it came across to me.

 

Perhaps they can clarify?

 

Has anybody here ever has both an alternator and a starter motor simultaneously trashed by any electrical fault on a narrow boat engine? It sounds pretty hard to achieve to me, but I'm happy to be educated how, if only to avoid doing it!