Is time up for diesel engines?

[MEPitt]

Hybrid hire boats are already available.

 

http://www.barnesbrinkcraft.co.uk/our-boats/detail/44/

 

We truly live in the future! Wheres my hoverboard?!

[Athy]

I would have thought burning cleaner fuels would be the way to go.

 

Regards kris

You would have thought that? What has happened to make you change your mind? Which cleaner fuels have you in mind? certainly not petrol!

[system 4-50]

Ok, I can see it clearly in my crystal ball. All canal boats converted to clean electric power, ie solar. All boats therefore limited in the distance they can travel by the sunshine they've seen and the size of their solar panels. The definition of the minimum distance to be travelled by CCers and others has been redefined as that distance that could be travelled by an "ideal" boat on the power available from half the number of sunny days in the past n days. This to be monitored over the whole network by one man working part-time on an environmentally friendly bicycle. Some boats now have a permanent chemically-induced fog around their boats so that they can claim they have never seen the sun and can't be required to move.

[peterboat]

My transit van is at the moment having a new dpf fitted.the old one blocked at only 30000 miles.a regen didnt work or a good thrashing so a replacment at £2000 was needed.i do the wrong type of driving ie not long motorway miles for these filters to burn the soot.wouldnt want one on my boat

did lots of jag ones very sad crap technology to say the least because the carbon that goes in still comes out just in a different place

Yes on special order.

 

There is a company in Sheffield converting them to run on hydrogen.

i have seen one apparently the next generation of transits will have petrol/lpg variants

Ok, I can see it clearly in my crystal ball. All canal boats converted to clean electric power, ie solar. All boats therefore limited in the distance they can travel by the sunshine they've seen and the size of their solar panels. The definition of the minimum distance to be travelled by CCers and others has been redefined as that distance that could be travelled by an "ideal" boat on the power available from half the number of sunny days in the past n days. This to be monitored over the whole network by one man working part-time on an environmentally friendly bicycle. Some boats now have a permanent chemically-induced fog around their boats so that they can claim they have never seen the sun and can't be required to move.

i wish i had fitted double the panels i did because i would be solar cruising mmmmm

[magnetman]

I think the canals will be concreted over long before that happens to make cycleways.

Probably right - with Electric bicycles

[b0atman]

Now what's that animal aah yes it's a horse environmentally friendly plenty of fuel available .

[craftycarper]

With bans and restrictions being proposed for diesel-engined cars, vans and lorries in cities, how long before attention turns to diesel-engined boats?

 

[Jess--]

Now what's that animal aah yes it's a horse environmentally friendly plenty of fuel available .

environmentally friendly until it farts releasing methane (which is now though to be a worse greenhouse gas than CO2)

[craftycarper]

With bans and restrictions being proposed for diesel-engined cars, vans and lorries in cities, how long before attention turns to diesel-engined boats?

 

. If you look back over a year ago I said that the EU wanted an end to diesels, and of course the normal possie popped up and told me I was talking rubbish,and that I was anti everything,racist biggot and god knows what and now you are about to find out how right I was, road tax on diesels over 2.0 will be over £500 within a year, and petrol LPG will be the answer,as is every council van within the m25 anyone with a new diesel will be spitting feathers when they see what's coming next, this is another problem caused by the last labour government, who told everyone to buy diesel as it had lower co2, sadly what they failed to say was all the other toxins were much worse, luckily my trusty landie is forty years old this year and has just become tax exempt, bad luck to anyone with a new diesel,especially if it's over 2.0 as it will be worthless within a year, they have already put 2 grand on the price of diesel motors to cover the massive wave of compensation claims, you were warned, i,m probably just anti EU but the writing was on the wall years ago for anyone willing to open there eyes

[Laurence Hogg]

The simplest way to answer this, would be to accurately research/determine by how much (in years), technology and regulations for narrowboats "lag behind" technology/regulations for cars.

 

I don't have the dates to mind but I reckon its decades.....

 

Many modern diesels used in boats are already bang up to date on emmisions, ie I would be surprised if Vetus (Mitsubishi based) were not or the likes of JCB with their new marine units.

The re manufactured BMC's and the like will be the ones to look at as its a fair bet that they get little in the way of mods from the original build.

[Guest]

 

Many modern diesels used in boats are already bang up to date on emmisions, ie I would be surprised if Vetus (Mitsubishi based) were not or the likes of JCB with their new marine units.

The re manufactured BMC's and the like will be the ones to look at as its a fair bet that they get little in the way of mods from the original build.

That can't be correct surely?

 

How many narrowboats have DPFs and EGR valves for example.

[Robbo]

I do wonder if hybrid boats are the way to go. Weight in a car is a killer for range and speed but a narrow boat has to add great lumps of concrete or iron just to sit right... why not batteries?

Motor a while to charge then glide along silently the rest of the day... you'd get to hear the birdies then.

 

Hybrid is a good option as the engine can charge the batteries via the motor when it's required.

 

A diesel/electric is also a good option due to the low speeds of canal boat (after around 5knots a direct engine becomes more efficient).

[Guest]

. If you look back over a year ago I said that the EU wanted an end to diesels, and of course the normal possie popped up and told me I was talking rubbish,and that I was anti everything,racist biggot and god knows what and now you are about to find out how right I was, road tax on diesels over 2.0 will be over £500 within a year, and petrol LPG will be the answer,as is every council van within the m25 anyone with a new diesel will be spitting feathers when they see what's coming next, this is another problem caused by the last labour government, who told everyone to buy diesel as it had lower co2, sadly what they failed to say was all the other toxins were much worse, luckily my trusty landie is forty years old this year and has just become tax exempt, bad luck to anyone with a new diesel,especially if it's over 2.0 as it will be worthless within a year, they have already put 2 grand on the price of diesel motors to cover the massive wave of compensation claims, you were warned, i,m probably just anti EU but the writing was on the wall years ago for anyone willing to open there eyes

Misleading tosh.

 

Get your facts straight please before posting such nonsense.

[Robbo]

 

Hybrid without energy recovery of some kind (ie from braking, for a motor vehicle) is no great advantage. If it were a plug-in hybrid, then where is the infrastructure to accommodate these?

 

It's that it's more efficient to run from battery/motor even when those batteries are been charged from a generator at canal speeds. When you get to need the power a directly coupled engine is more efficient so a hybrid gives you the best efficiency at low speeds and when you need the power (like a river) as well as having the option to use a smaller engine with using electric motor / engine when you need the power.

[Southern Star]

With bans and restrictions being proposed for diesel-engined cars, vans and lorries in cities, how long before attention turns to diesel-engined boats?

 

I doubt very much that boats will be very high on the radar. The most I could see happening is that new boats would be required to be fitted with the latest euro engine, currently euro 6, and although there are restrictions in some places on lorries with older engines (London for example requires a euro 4 engine as a minimum), it would be totally impractical for maximum weight lorries to run on petrol, not least because of the safety aspect of a vehicle carrying 500+ litres (I have tanks totalling 900 litres) of highly inflammable/ explosive fuel.

[Paul C]

 

Many modern diesels used in boats are already bang up to date on emmisions, ie I would be surprised if Vetus (Mitsubishi based) were not or the likes of JCB with their new marine units.

The re manufactured BMC's and the like will be the ones to look at as its a fair bet that they get little in the way of mods from the original build.

 

The latest standard for boat engines is RCD 94/25/EC Amended 2003/44/EC:

 

CO 5 g/kWh

NOx 9.8 g/kWh

particulates 1.0 g/kWh

 

 

Latest standard for diesel cars (Euro 6):

 

CO 0.5 g/km

NOx 0.08 g/km

particulates 0.005 g/km

 

 

Converting to the same basis:

 

CO 0.88g/kWh

NOx 1.408g/kWh

particulates 0.0088g/kWh

 

(basis: diesel is 10kWh/litre, fuel economy 50mpg)

[Chewbacka]

Assuming this link is correct, inland waterways diesel engines are currently at Euro3 with a plan to decrease the limits for engines over 37kw from 2019. Still a longway to go to get to Euro6 as currently required for cars.

https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/nonroad.php#vessel

[Athy]

Misleading tosh.

 

Get your facts straight please before posting such nonsense.

I think that at least some of CC's comments have an element of truth. We recently bought a diesel car for the first time, and yes, new prices are about £2,000 more than the equivalent petrol-driven models (not that we bought brand new, but I noticed this when researching).

You do seem rather harsh on the chap sometimes.

[Paul C]

. If you look back over a year ago I said that the EU wanted an end to diesels, and of course the normal possie popped up and told me I was talking rubbish,and that I was anti everything,racist biggot and god knows what and now you are about to find out how right I was, road tax on diesels over 2.0 will be over £500 within a year, and petrol LPG will be the answer,as is every council van within the m25 anyone with a new diesel will be spitting feathers when they see what's coming next, this is another problem caused by the last labour government, who told everyone to buy diesel as it had lower co2, sadly what they failed to say was all the other toxins were much worse, luckily my trusty landie is forty years old this year and has just become tax exempt, bad luck to anyone with a new diesel,especially if it's over 2.0 as it will be worthless within a year, they have already put 2 grand on the price of diesel motors to cover the massive wave of compensation claims, you were warned, i,m probably just anti EU but the writing was on the wall years ago for anyone willing to open there eyes

 

 

Misleading tosh.

 

Get your facts straight please before posting such nonsense.

 

I don't remember the original post (do you have a link craftycarper?) but for me there's an element of truth there. I don't buy new cars, so its secondhand for me. And one of the key issues is reliability. My last 4 cars have been diesel and a number of previous ones too (probably about half and half, over the years) and one of the more attractive aspects was the perceived reliability of a diesel. That's no longer the case, with ECUs, expensive injectors, delicate turbos etc, longer term. And smaller cars have advanced greatly in the amount of equipment, refinement, comfort etc so a smaller petrol certainly looks as attractive as a slightly larger diesel car for my next car.

 

In a way, the ever increasing emissions requirements is a load of Balaerics and its main aim is to prop up the European motor industry in developing more and more complicated cars, which also (remember the scrappage scheme?) gives an incentive to get rid of the older ones - a manufacturer doesn't make so much money if its cars last too long and replacements aren't bought..... However it seems at least 1 European manufacturer has figuratively committed hari-kari on their diesels........maybe it is the beginning of the end.

 

I might buy an electric or PUH next.

[Guest]

I think that at least some of CC's comments have an element of truth. We recently bought a diesel car for the first time, and yes, new prices are about £2,000 more than the equivalent petrol-driven models (not that we bought brand new, but I noticed this when researching).

You do seem rather harsh on the chap sometimes.

Some of the increased cost comes from increased production costs of diesel cars including things like fitting a DPF in order to comply with emission standards of the day.

 

If I appear to be harsh on him sometimes it is because of the content of his posts.

 

In this particular case the issue of VED of which I can find no evidence what so ever. However if he can provide a credible link I will happily look at and respond accordingly.

[magnetman]

 

 

 

 

In a way, the ever increasing emissions requirements is a load of Balaerics and its main aim is to prop up the European motor industry

Surely not its all about the future of the planet innit

 

My personal view is that vehicles which are more expensive to run are a Good Thing because it helps to make people think about whether they actually need to be using a vehicle for that activity in the first place

 

How far was the supermarket? Can you walk there

[Guest]

Surely not its all about the future of the planet innit

 

My personal view is that vehicles which are more expensive to run are a Good Thing because it helps to make people think about whether they actually need to be using a vehicle for that activity in the first place

 

How far was the supermarket? Can you walk there

Or can the supermarket deliver (in a diesel van!)

[gazza]

I can't see any sanction on diesels being applied retrospectively, it will open up a massive can of worms otherwise.

 

As far as boats are concerned, again, there is no incentive to apply any future regulation retrospectively - in what is a tiny percentage of the UK's pollution contribution.

[Jambo]

The government has only just overhauled VED with the changes due to be implemented from 2017. It'll be purely based on CO2 emissions and there will only be a differential (ranging from £0 to £2,000) for the first year after which everyone except for electric vehicles will pay £140. And as of last week the government has no plans to change this according to their very limp proposals in their air quality consultation (here).

 

Things can change obviously and air quality emissions have been shunted dramatically up the agenda in the last week in particular, but also after the recent (and long overdue) supreme court ruling, but craftycarper's apocalyptic prophesies are very unlikely to come about. As he said, this can be revisited in a year.

[Guest]

I can't see any sanction on diesels being applied retrospectively, it will open up a massive can of worms otherwise.

 

As far as boats are concerned, again, there is no incentive to apply any future regulation retrospectively - in what is a tiny percentage of the UK's pollution contribution.

The retrospective thing is the key. The suggestion that a massive retrospective penalty will be applied to cars people already own or already on the road would be political suicide.

 

Any changes to the already proposed VED changes will affect vehicles not yet sold allowing people to plan and make proper purchasing decisions based on that.

 

This VW thing is proving to be a platform for quite a lot of Internet hysteria.