Is time up for diesel engines?

[pophops]

With bans and restrictions being proposed for diesel-engined cars, vans and lorries in cities, how long before attention turns to diesel-engined boats?

 

[Dave_P]

With bans and restrictions being proposed for diesel-engined cars, vans and lorries in cities, how long before attention turns to diesel-engined boats?

 

Since the vast majority of inboard boat engines are diesel, it's simply not practical to ban diesel boat engines. Having said that, a possibility would be legislation to limit emissions in certain areas through the fitting of aftermarket particulate filters. Obviously, London would be at the top of the list. I wonder if it's even possible to adapt a hot-bulb engine in this way?

[Paul C]

The simplest way to answer this, would be to accurately research/determine by how much (in years), technology and regulations for narrowboats "lag behind" technology/regulations for cars.

 

I don't have the dates to mind but I reckon its decades.....

[Boat&Bikes]

Will be decades I believe. I see it as similar to when I MOT my classic car, emissions test seems to be if you don't smoke out the mechanics shop it's ok for a pass. Not that my old car smokes of course . Ian

[Naughty Cal]

The simplest way to answer this, would be to accurately research/determine by how much (in years), technology and regulations for narrowboats "lag behind" technology/regulations for cars.

 

I don't have the dates to mind but I reckon its decades.....

It will easily be decades behind.

 

Our relatively modern (2003) Volvo Engine is very crude when compared to modern day engines in cars.

 

The newer generation VP engines do have far more stringent emission controls and are very fuel efficient in comparison to the older engines. We have friends who have exactly the same boat as ours but theirs is a few years newer and fitted with the more modern D3 engine compared with our older KAD32. It is quieter, more fuel efficient and slightly faster. But, and it's a big but, it has too many sensors and sender units which are just not reliable enough. They have frequent problems with sensors "detecting a problem" and shutting the engine into limp mode. More often than not it is a faulty sensor or sender unit.

[Jay4424]

I wonder if it's even possible to adapt a hot-bulb engine in this way?

hot bulbs arn't technically diesel ;-)

 

..and if it did come in we can run on other oils!

 

..note to self, build hotbulb car sooner rather than later!

 

 

Jay

[Seti-Yeti]

I do wonder if hybrid boats are the way to go. Weight in a car is a killer for range and speed but a narrow boat has to add great lumps of concrete or iron just to sit right... why not batteries?

Motor a while to charge then glide along silently the rest of the day... you'd get to hear the birdies then.

[zenataomm]

There would need to be something a lot more dramatic than unhappiness with emissions to warrant an across the board regulation against diesels per se.

Road vehicles, plant machinery, back up generators, stationary engines, farmers' machines, railway locomotives, pumps and compressors.

 

Just to name a few, it would be more likely that restrictions surrounding new manufacturing would be introduced and then waiting for old stock to become obsolete. The same as two stroke motors and outboards.

 

I'd like to see the procedure for testing the emissions of a diesel powered boat with a wet exhaust.

[Paul C]

I do wonder if hybrid boats are the way to go. Weight in a car is a killer for range and speed but a narrow boat has to add great lumps of concrete or iron just to sit right... why not batteries?

Motor a while to charge then glide along silently the rest of the day... you'd get to hear the birdies then.

 

Hybrid without energy recovery of some kind (ie from braking, for a motor vehicle) is no great advantage. If it were a plug-in hybrid, then where is the infrastructure to accommodate these?

[Naughty Cal]

I do wonder if hybrid boats are the way to go. Weight in a car is a killer for range and speed but a narrow boat has to add great lumps of concrete or iron just to sit right... why not batteries?

Motor a while to charge then glide along silently the rest of the day... you'd get to hear the birdies then.

Hybrid boats are now available.

 

http://www.denisonyachtsales.com/boat-for-sale/2015-Greenline-33-Hybrid-Limited-Edition/4199838

[Dave_P]

Will be decades I believe. I see it as similar to when I MOT my classic car, emissions test seems to be if you don't smoke out the mechanics shop it's ok for a pass. Not that my old car smokes of course . Ian

 

You're right about MOTs. Petrol vehicles used before August 1975 and diesel vehicles used before August 1979 are tested by sight, not by actual emissions. However the LEZ in London sets a standard which all diesel vans must meet. Having an old van does not give you a way out of it.

[Paul C]

 

You're right about MOTs. Petrol vehicles used before August 1975 and diesel vehicles used before August 1979 are tested by sight, not by actual emissions. However the LEZ in London sets a standard which all diesel vans must meet. Having an old van does not give you a way out of it.

 

I don't drive, or go boating, in London though. If we're theorising about the application of regulations onto boats, what do you reckon to them doing it per-region (ie....London)?

[MEPitt]

As the Stroller is an outboard petrol unit, I have had a sneaky look at electric outboards. I would imagine for a good crusing you would need a lot of battery storage and of course you wont have an alternator to charge the batteries so would be dependent on solar panels, power hookup or even a seperate genny to keep the batteries charged up.

 

At the moment its not practical or financially viable, but I can definately see a future where electric powered boats will become ther norm. After all you could argue that the infrastructure is better suitated than lets say the road network to charging electrics as we have shore power at marinas etc that could feasibly used as charging points. Also a lot of boats already have batteries and solar power.

[Seti-Yeti]

 

Hybrid without energy recovery of some kind (ie from braking, for a motor vehicle) is no great advantage. If it were a plug-in hybrid, then where is the infrastructure to accommodate these?

I wasn't suggesting a revolution! It would just be nice to have silent running sometimes. It would relieve the requirement for a gearbox and the engine location could be different. I can't think where "different" would be but the option is there. Admittedly, it's probably more a weekender than CC'er option and personally I miss the duff-duff-duff of some of the old girls.

(Don't forget you could have solar all week from our blazing sunshine to get you off to a flying start)

[Paul C]

There's certainly a valid case for hybrid but the incentive isn't there at the moment and the issues to do with costs and battery technology currently make diesel power more suitable. But never say never......

[pete.i]

As the Stroller is an outboard petrol unit, I have had a sneaky look at electric outboards. I would imagine for a good crusing you would need a lot of battery storage and of course you wont have an alternator to charge the batteries so would be dependent on solar panels, power hookup or even a seperate genny to keep the batteries charged up.

 

At the moment its not practical or financially viable, but I can definately see a future where electric powered boats will become ther norm. After all you could argue that the infrastructure is better suitated than lets say the road network to charging electrics as we have shore power at marinas etc that could feasibly used as charging points. Also a lot of boats already have batteries and solar power.

I think the canals will be concreted over long before that happens to make cycleways.

[Guest]

As the Stroller is an outboard petrol unit, I have had a sneaky look at electric outboards. I would imagine for a good crusing you would need a lot of battery storage and of course you wont have an alternator to charge the batteries so would be dependent on solar panels, power hookup or even a seperate genny to keep the batteries charged up.

 

At the moment its not practical or financially viable, but I can definately see a future where electric powered boats will become ther norm. After all you could argue that the infrastructure is better suitated than lets say the road network to charging electrics as we have shore power at marinas etc that could feasibly used as charging points. Also a lot of boats already have batteries and solar power.

I seriously doubt the inland waterways boat building industry have the investment potential to develop such technology. It may be different for some of the builders building expensive salty water luxury boats but can we really see a viable solution being developed for narrow boats?

[MEPitt]

I seriously doubt the inland waterways boat building industry have the investment potential to develop such technology. It may be different for some of the builders building expensive salty water luxury boats but can we really see a viable solution being developed for narrow boats?

 

The technology has already mostly been developed, its just a case of applying it. If battery tech thats currently (see the pun there? ) used to power cars is used on a boat it is feasable. I could easily imagine hire boats going for electric, charge up at marina, good solars on roof to extend range and if all fails a list of charging points on the cut. Id think maintaince would be easier as well.

 

Its not all that long ago solar panals were seen as pie in the sky and now a lot of boats have them on, from what I remember when years ago when my dad first invested in some for his nb there was skepticism that they were any good.

[Naughty Cal]

 

The technology has already mostly been developed, its just a case of applying it. If battery tech thats currently (see the pun there? ) used to power cars is used on a boat it is feasable. I could easily imagine hire boats going for electric, charge up at marina, good solars on roof to extend range and if all fails a list of charging points on the cut. Id think maintaince would be easier as well.

 

Its not all that long ago solar panals were seen as pie in the sky and now a lot of boats have them on, from what I remember when years ago when my dad first invested in some for his nb there was skepticism that they were any good.

Hybrid hire boats are already available.

 

http://www.barnesbrinkcraft.co.uk/our-boats/detail/44/

[Athy]

With reference to the topic's title: no. Have you no idea how long they last?

[kris88]

I would have thought burning cleaner fuels would be the way to go.

 

Regards kris

[mickp]

My transit van is at the moment having a new dpf fitted.the old one blocked at only 30000 miles.a regen didnt work or a good thrashing so a replacment at £2000 was needed.i do the wrong type of driving ie not long motorway miles for these filters to burn the soot.wouldnt want one on my boat

[NB Lola]

Buy a Volkswagen and never fail your emissions test!

[gazza]

My transit van is at the moment having a new dpf fitted.the old one blocked at only 30000 miles.a regen didnt work or a good thrashing so a replacment at £2000 was needed.i do the wrong type of driving ie not long motorway miles for these filters to burn the soot.wouldnt want one on my boat

They could never work on a boat for the reasons you point out.

 

Off highway kit will never likely be required to have stringent emissions control retrofitted to them.

 

Bad news about the van, do Ford even offer a petrol engined Transit these days?

[Naughty Cal]

They could never work on a boat for the reasons you point out.

 

Off highway kit will never likely be required to have stringent emissions control retrofitted to them.

 

Bad news about the van, do Ford even offer a petrol engined Transit these days?

Yes on special order.

 

There is a company in Sheffield converting them to run on hydrogen.