Is time up for diesel engines?

[craftycarper]

A very valid, and often overlooked point. As is the amount of energy consumed, and pollution created every time a new vehicle is built.

 

I run a 23 year old Land Rover. I have to for work, and pulling a trailer both on and of road nothing will match it's capability and durability. It is relatively economical averaging 28mpg, and with regular maintenance has easily passed the relevant emissions test every year.

. Totally agree my nan drove a ford anglia from the day she passed her test until she felt uncomfortable on the roads age 87, she even sold it for more than it cost and her carbon footprint is minuscule in comparison to the number plate chasers of today even if the do have a partical filter,

[Guest]

deal, I will honour that one Martin, and if we are still both here next September the winner can choose the charity,

 

I have bookmarked this just so no body forgets.

 

But lets be clear what you are betting on. We can use my Antara as an example as its a 2.2 turbo diesel ie over the 2.0 size you claim will be taxed at £500 pounds within a year year. So if my VED jumps to £500 within a year you win and I lose?

 

Are we clear on that? as I want no welching on the deal.

[gazza]

CC,

 

I've done my time in a transit, I had a 100 lwb '99 for 11 years that I used for my racing, camped in, did 100's of scrap runs. I'm not sure why you have to come out with the boy racer crap.

We all like different things. You like maggot dangling, I like quick cars.

 

Lay off the personal attacks and you'd get on much better, there's a good chap.

[craftycarper]

I have bookmarked this just so no body forgets.

 

But lets be clear what you are betting on. We can use my Antara as an example as its a 2.2 turbo diesel ie over the 2.0 size you claim will be taxed at £500 pounds within a year year. So if my VED jumps to £500 within a year you win and I lose?

 

Are we clear on that? as I want no welching on the deal.

. Why. Not it's only a tenner, and I know it will go to a good cause, though I think it will probably my old transits to get clobbered first ,

[Guest]

. Why. Not it's only a tenner, and I know it will go to a good cause, though I think it will probably my old transits to get clobbered first ,

 

OK your're on.

 

,,

Edited September 24, 2015 by MJG

[craftycarper]

CC,

I've done my time in a transit, I had a 100 lwb '99 for 11 years that I used for my racing, camped in, did 100's of scrap runs. I'm not sure why you have to come out with the boy racer crap.

We all like different things. You like maggot dangling, I like quick cars.

Lay off the personal attacks and you'd get on much better, there's a good chap.

I have a 200 plus bhp 900 aero turbo in my garage, I love fast things to, but my 22 year old son and his mates drive St fiestas, so not really an insult it is a boy racers car, and most will see the wrong side of a hedge, my day to day car is a Honda Jazz, boringly reliable jap or grand dads car, these are facts, and just like people say get out the way grand dad to me they say look at that silly old fart in his boy racer car about you, it only becomes an insult when you take offence other than that I,m just telling you what others say behind your back,

[gazza]

I have a 200 plus bhp 900 aero turbo in my garage, I love fast things to, but my 22 year old son and his mates drive St fiestas, so not really an insult it is a boy racers car, and most will see the wrong side of a hedge, my day to day car is a Honda Jazz, boringly reliable jap or grand dads car, these are facts, and just like people say get out the way grand dad to me they say look at that silly old fart in his boy racer car about you, it only becomes an insult when you take offence other than that I,m just telling you what others say behind your back,

Comedy gold!

[magnetman]

I have a 200 plus bhp 900 aero turbo in my garage,

 

I'd love one of those - a garage wicked

[Murflynn]

 

One thing puzzles me about this diesel v. petrol debate. It is stated that a diesel engine excretes more of certain pollutants than a petrol engine. BUT a diesel-powered vehicle burns so much less fuel. For example our last car, petrol-driven, averaged 34 mpg. Our current one, same make, same size of engine, averages 49 mpg because it's a diesel. So, per mile travelled, it's surely going to blow fewer nasties into the atmosphere. is there a flaw in this way of thinking?

yes and no.

 

petrol engines are less efficient in converting the fuel into energy and as a result they need a catalyser to reduce the CO and NOx emissions to an acceptable level.

on the other hand, diesels produce less CO and NOx, but also produce particulates (which are not present in a petrol exhaust), and should be filtered out by (often faulty) DPFs. These are the nasties that you see and smell when a truck passes with a black exhaust. And as we all know even newish diesel cars emit a cloud of black smoke occasionally.

[John V]

And as we all know even newish diesel cars emit a cloud of black smoke occasionally.

 

They might have got rid of the lead in petrol but there is still loads of it in some people's right foot

[gazza]

CC,

 

if you read this thread in its entirety you will discover we have an Alfa...

 

I raised the subject of the ST to show why punitive retrospective VED changes are unlikely to happen, if they do, all those people will look straight at the motor manufacturers for an answer as to why they were mid sold an expensive product.

 

The mother in law has a low VED bracket fiesta, we looked at the ST and came close to buying one, so I have first hand knowledge of that variant.

 

I don't know anyone with a diesel VAG car so couldn't give a real life comparison with that manufacturer - bear in mind they are in the centre of this whole thing, but unlikely to be there alone...

 

I'm on my phone so I can't explain it in pictures or with the aid of a Venn diagram.

 

I can't put it in any simpler terms I'm afraid.

 

BTW, the old ST150 is a pile of crap compared to the current model, it wasn't very good new, the best bit being the brakes (which, incidentally, I fitted to our puma) I'm a Ford man as well

[gazza]

Thread tidy up edit.

Edited September 24, 2015 by gazza

[Murflynn]

so good you did it twice thrice !!

[John V]

Hard to get a word in edgeways in this thread !!!

[gazza]

Poxy phone!

[craftycarper]

CC,

if you read this thread in its entirety you will discover we have an Alfa...

I raised the subject of the ST to show why punitive retrospective VED changes are unlikely to happen, if they do, all those people will look straight at the motor manufacturers for an answer as to why they were mid sold an expensive product.

The mother in law has a low VED bracket fiesta, we looked at the ST and came close to buying one, so I have first hand knowledge of that variant.

I don't know anyone with a diesel VAG car so couldn't give a real life comparison with that manufacturer - bear in mind they are in the centre of this whole thing, but unlikely to be there alone...

I'm on my phone so I can't explain it in pictures or with the aid of a Venn diagram.

I can't put it in any simpler terms I'm afraid.

BTW, the old ST150 is a pile of crap compared to the current model, it wasn't very good new, the best bit being the brakes (which, incidentally, I fitted to our puma) I'm a Ford man as well

there we go something in common, I've owned every model of cortina from a mk1. 1500 gt mk2 1600 E mk 3 2000E and 2000 gxl, then I had kids and got boring with mk4/5 in estate versions, prior to this I. had a period of triumphs 2x2.5 PI dolly sprint and vittesse hard and soft tops, don't take this as an insult but only a petrol head would want an Alfa, I used to have a 15 cloverleaf alfasud, real love hate relationship, there have been many more but I still own the best 2 1975 landrover and a 1990 Saab 900 aero turbo plus two tranny,s and two kangoo,s though ones badged Nissan, that should get your mouth watering, but diesel is still on its way out, going to do smiley no2?

Hard to get a word in edgeways in this thread !!!

don't bother unless you have a 2.2 diesel it ain't worth it Edited September 24, 2015 by craftycarper

[John V]

my favourite Triumph was the MK1....far better car then the MKII as for the 2.5, didn't like the PI but the TC

 

 

eta (2000 MkI)

Edited September 24, 2015 by John V

[gazza]

there we go something in common, I've owned every model of cortina from a mk1. 1500 gt mk2 1600 E mk 3 2000E and 2000 gxl, then I had kids and got boring with mk4/5 in estate versions, prior to this I. had a period of triumphs 2x2.5 PI dolly sprint and vittesse hard and soft tops, don't take this as an insult but only a petrol head would want an Alfa, I used to have a 15 cloverleaf alfasud, real love hate relationship, there have been many more but I still own the best 2 1975 landrover and a 1990 Saab 900 aero turbo plus two tranny,s and two kangoo,s though ones badged Nissan, that should get your mouth watering, but diesel is still on its way out, going to do smiley no2?

don't bother unless you have a 2.2 diesel it ain't worth it

That lots Much more my cup of tea

 

I was offered a 2.5 PI when I was 17, needed an engine rebuild due to a bust crank. All the bits in the boot ready to do the job. My old man put his foot down and wouldn't let me have it on the drive - he said it would be ruinous to run as an apprentice, he was probably right!

Although my heavily tweaked Capri wasn't exactly economical!

 

Had my first dirt bike at 13, first car on the drive at 15, old chevette that had terminal tin worm and was thankfully scrapped way before I passed my test.

 

As you say, the Alfa was a petrol heads itch that needed scratching - so far so good.

 

I miss my van as no van means no bike racing ATM, proper dirty old school van, no pretending to be kind to the planet!

[craftycarper]

my favourite Triumph was the MK1....far better car then the MKII as for the 2.5, didn't like the PI but the TC

 

 

eta (2000 MkI)

PI all the way for me, loved the fact at the age of 18 I was driving the same car as the high speed pursuit police cars, one of them I had was an American export model, first car I ever had with power steering and an auto gearbox, did,nt like autos then or now so sold it for an overdrive model, if you could get them balanced right a set of triple 40 Webber carbs certainly got the old straight 6 up and going, especially in the little vittesse, love the simplicity of the old cars, wonder if they will be talking like this in another forty years about the shite on the road nowadays

That lots Much more my cup of tea

I was offered a 2.5 PI when I was 17, needed an engine rebuild due to a bust crank. All the bits in the boot ready to do the job. My old man put his foot down and wouldn't let me have it on the drive - he said it would be ruinous to run as an apprentice, he was probably right!

Although my heavily tweaked Capri wasn't exactly economical!

Had my first dirt bike at 13, first car on the drive at 15, old chevette that had terminal tin worm and was thankfully scrapped way before I passed my test.

As you say, the Alfa was a petrol heads itch that needed scratching - so far so good.

I miss my van as no van means no bike racing ATM, proper dirty old school van, no pretending to be kind to the planet!

my friend had a mk1 Capri 3.1 RS it was breathtakingly fast at the time, but I have never seen another one before or since, I was seventeen when I bought my first PI and the insurance was twice the price of the car Edited September 24, 2015 by craftycarper

[John V]

If your PI had twin webers it probably was a TC, IIRC the PI was injected. Bloody unreliable injection system.

The reason I preferred the MKI to the MKII 2000 was that the MKI was lighter and more nimble also because it had a dynamo rather than an alternator (with an alternator you had to take the damn thing off before you could change No1 spark plug)

[peterboat]

yes and no.

 

petrol engines are less efficient in converting the fuel into energy and as a result they need a catalyser to reduce the CO and NOx emissions to an acceptable level.

on the other hand, diesels produce less CO and NOx, but also produce particulates (which are not present in a petrol exhaust), and should be filtered out by (often faulty) DPFs. These are the nasties that you see and smell when a truck passes with a black exhaust. And as we all know even newish diesel cars emit a cloud of black smoke occasionally.

slightly wrong diesels produce more nox than petrol, much more, and it is mostly attached to the particulates, diesels have catalysts as well very expensive ones and for euro six they have nox filters as well as dpfs it is all getting very complicated and expensive.especially as most of these items are service items

Edited September 24, 2015 by peterboat

[gazza]

If your PI had twin webers it probably was a TC, IIRC the PI was injected. Bloody unreliable injection system.

The reason I preferred the MKI to the MKII 2000 was that the MKI was lighter and more nimble also because it had a dynamo rather than an alternator (with an alternator you had to take the damn thing off before you could change No1 spark plug)

Lucas mechanical fuel injection, as you say, a bit on the troublesome side!

[peterboat]

That lots Much more my cup of tea

 

I was offered a 2.5 PI when I was 17, needed an engine rebuild due to a bust crank. All the bits in the boot ready to do the job. My old man put his foot down and wouldn't let me have it on the drive - he said it would be ruinous to run as an apprentice, he was probably right!

Although my heavily tweaked Capri wasn't exactly economical!

 

Had my first dirt bike at 13, first car on the drive at 15, old chevette that had terminal tin worm and was thankfully scrapped way before I passed my test.

 

As you say, the Alfa was a petrol heads itch that needed scratching - so far so good.

 

I miss my van as no van means no bike racing ATM, proper dirty old school van, no pretending to be kind to the planet!

jayne and i have a 916 spider jts on lpg we love it not that i get to drive it very often

[gazza]

jayne and i have a 916 spider jts on lpg we love it not that i get to drive it very often

Achingly pretty car! 11 year production run that finished in 2004 and it looks as fresh today as it did in '93.

 

Proper proper Alfa, in GTV spec with the Busso V6 its got to be one of the loveliest things on four wheels - that noise!

[Murflynn]

slightly wrong diesels produce more nox than petrol, much more, and it is mostly attached to the particulates, diesels have catalysts as well very expensive ones and for euro six they have nox filters as well as dpfs it is all getting very complicated and expensive.especially as most of these items are service items

http://www.air-quality.org.uk/26.php

Diesel fuel contains more energy per litre than petrol and coupled with the fact that diesel engines are more efficient than petrol engines, diesel cars are more efficient to run. Diesel fuel contains no lead and emissions of the regulated pollutants (carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides) are lower than those from petrol cars without a catalyst. However, when compared to petrol cars with a catalyst, diesels have higher emissions of NOx and much higher emissions of particulate matter.