Auction for Agenda 21 Oxford mooring

[AftApeth]

Now and again, one of the Agenda 21 mooring spots in Oxford comes up for auction. In case anyone's interested in the trend, one such auction ended this afternoon and went for a whopping £6605 p/a. Guide price was £2706. That's 244% of guide price, and the highest amount paid yet for one of these spots at auction.

 

I wonder if this is part of a general trend, or something to do with the cracking down on CMers around Oxford, which might be increasing competition for legal moorings?

 

 

[MtB]

I bet it doesn't complete at £6,605, and we see it back on the market in six weeks after CRT have offered it to all the others bidding, and beaten.

 

This seems to happen a LOT, and it disturbs me.

[TheBiscuits]

I bet it doesn't complete at £6,605, and we see it back on the market in six weeks after CRT have offered it to all the others bidding, and beaten.

 

This seems to happen a LOT, and it disturbs me.

The old auction system does seem a bit badly thought out. A lot of the online "proper" auctions (not ebay!) require you to pay a bidders deposit before allowing you to bid, which reduces shill bidding quite a lot.

 

Hopefully the new system will be better - I quite like the new online licence account, and that is where the winter moorings will be sold from if anyone buys them.

[AftApeth]

I bet it doesn't complete at £6,605, and we see it back on the market in six weeks after CRT have offered it to all the others bidding, and beaten.

 

This seems to happen a LOT, and it disturbs me.

 

Very interesting. I've read on CWF about people trying to cheat the system by registering three accounts: one to put in an early, low bid, then two to take the bidding up into ridiculous figures to put off other would-be bidders. Then when their top two bids fail to complete, they bag the mooring with the low one. I haven't heard of people just bidding for the hell of it and nobody being willing to take on the mooring after an auction though. I'd be surprised if this happened often, given that by failing to complete you're still bound to pay 5% of the mooring fee agreed.

 

Just had a look at completed auctions. I can't see any pattern of a high rate being agreed for a mooring, then the same mooring being listed a short time later. All the dates here are fairly well spread out, suggesting that the agreements did go through. E.g. when a mooring went for £6005 on 20/3/2014, there wasn't another auction until 20/11/2014, 8 months later:

 

https://www.crtmoorings.com/auctions/search.php?search_type=basic&keywords=agenda+21&min_length=&min_width=&county=&waterway=&mooring_use=&postcode=&distance=&vacancy_type=2&sort_by=0&sort_type=asc&ended=1&vsearch=Start+search

 

Based on CRT's website alone, it looks as though these moorings aren't going up for reauction.

Edited September 3, 2015 by AftApeth

[Dave_P]

 

Very interesting. I've read on CWF about people trying to cheat the system by registering three accounts: one to put in an early, low bid, then two to take the bidding up into ridiculous figures to put off other would-be bidders. Then when their top two bids fail to complete, they bag the mooring with the low one.

 

Yes, it happens. Sadly.

[AftApeth]

Yes, it happens. Sadly.

I don't think that's what's happened in this case. The silly bidding all happened right at the end for this one, so several other people had put their bids in before then. Even the third and fourth highest bids were exceptionally high. So I think this case speaks more for a supply and demand issue, which is the point I wanted originally to make.

[MtB]

I don't think that's what's happened in this case. The silly bidding all happened right at the end for this one, so several other people had put their bids in before then. Even the third and fourth highest bids were exceptionally high. So I think this case speaks more for a supply and demand issue, which is the point I wanted originally to make.

 

Which is shocking because it's a horrible mooring, right at the north end, by the bypass bridge.

 

I could understand it making £6k+ had it been on the other section 21s by St Edwards skool, really nice moorings. But it isn't, AIUI.

 

Hence my assertion that it won't complete, once the winner realises what they were bidding on assuming it was a genuine bid.

[sat kartar]

Theres defiantly a sale there....I would ve bid for it for sure had i known.....Knowing its not great mooring makes me feel a little better then.....just found out it came up for sale & sold. I registered with cr&T and thought id be notified as intreasted in moving here! theres definatly a demand!! I did ponder about buying the hieronymous pepypes boat but not practical and needs quite a bit of work..still not sold & owners are in usa living now! A friend is selling it [or trying to...] for them and they obviously paid too much money for it from what i hear.....

sk

[Lady Muck]

My friend won it, he was desperate to win it. he works in Oxford, no time or desire to cc. He knows the area well, he was brought up near there. Put it this way, if your boat is the wrong side of 70 feet long what other chance do you have of a residential mooring in Oxford?

[junior]

Isn't there something weird about these section 21 moorings where you can only moor there if you're a tree hugger or eco warrior?

[Alan de Enfield]

I thought the were something like that, but having done a search- here re the 'rules'

 

“Agenda 21 moorings on the Oxford Canal in Oxford City
These moorings were created in order to legitimise and safeguard the way of life which has been developed by the Boaters Community already mooring in the areas covered by the Agenda 21 mooring sites. The boating community in Oxford is a low impact sustainable community that has created this statement of aspirations and guidelines. Aspirations;

• Energy and natural resources are used efficiently

• Pollution is limited to levels which a natural system can cope with

• Waste is minimised

• The diversity of nature is valued and protected

• Local distinctiveness and diversity are valued and protected

• Health is promoted by clean, safe and pleasant environments

• People live without fear of personal violence and persecution

• All sections of the community are empowered to participate in decision-making

• A wide range of living styles is accepted

• The existence of environmentally sensitive areas such as vole habitats and the SSSI are respected

 

Guidelines;

• There are no site-specific services (e.g. mains electricity, water, phone lines, post boxes)

• There is no towpath lighting

• Be aware of generator use. We adhere to the BW regulations and in addition prefer to use solar and wind power where appropriate

• We undertake not to put harmful waste in the canal (i.e. engine oil, ashes). All waste is disposed of appropriately

• We endeavour to share knowledge and skills for environmentally conscious living (i.e. awareness of waste disposal, biodegradable detergent, etc)

• We will continue to meet and discuss relevant issues for our community in an open forum

 

It is expected that all owners and/or occupiers of Boats on the Agenda 21 moorings will respect and take up these aspirations and abide by these guidelines.”

[Naughty Cal]

So for £6.5k you get, well, nothing!

[Mike Todd]

So for £6.5k you get, well, nothing!

Of course you do! A hassle free right to stay long term near Oxford on a stretch with limited space at best and a very high demand. Since it is an auction, the market value of this right is £6.5K since it is clearly worth that much to to successful bidder (and almost as much to the under bidders)

[Alenafour]

Isn't there something weird about these section 21 moorings where you can only moor there if you're a tree hugger or eco warrior?

 

What a thoroughly unpleasant and nasty post. I guess it will probably lose you a customer or two.

[Athy]

 

What a thoroughly unpleasant and nasty post.

In what way? It struck me as a question, possibly tongue-in-cheek but neither unpleasant nor nasty.

 

What are Agenda 21 moorings? I've seen the list of regulations printed above, but I am not sure if they are indeed reserved for any specific group of people or types of boat.

[Alenafour]

In what way? It struck me as a question, possibly tongue-in-cheek but neither unpleasant nor nasty.

 

What are Agenda 21 moorings? I've seen the list of regulations printed above, but I am not sure if they are indeed reserved for any specific group of people or types of boat.

 

I think you'll find that 'tree-hugger' and 'eco-warrior' are generally considered insulting by those who hold the views at which junior sneers.

 

Besides, I know you would rather other people did your research but a read about what Agenda 21 actually says might by more useful than such dismissive terms.

[TheBiscuits]

What a thoroughly unpleasant and nasty post. I guess it will probably lose you a customer or two.

 

I think you'll find that 'tree-hugger' and 'eco-warrior' are generally considered insulting by those who hold the views at which junior sneers.

Ah but the Greenwashing set won't be buying any dead dinosaur lumps or juice from anyone, so junior won't lose any custom.

 

They knit their own coal as I understand it. From lentils flown halfway across the planet.

Edited October 8, 2015 by TheBiscuits

[Athy]

 

I think you'll find that 'tree-hugger' and 'eco-warrior' are generally considered insulting by those who hold the views at which junior sneers.

 

 

The latter, probably not. The former, possibly - but neither is unpleasant or nasty, just perhaps gently mocking and certainly harmless.

 

A greeno to our Biccy colleague for his jocular but perceptive post.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Athy

[Heffalump]

 

I think you'll find that 'tree-hugger' and 'eco-warrior' are generally considered insulting by those who hold the views at which junior sneers.

 

What on earth are you going on about?

 

I thoroughly agree with the aspirations and guidelines of the Agenda 21 moorings, that's how I'd like to live. I'm not offended. Are you really?

Edited October 8, 2015 by Heffalump

[old-lock-heron]

Of course you do! A hassle free right to stay long term near Oxford on a stretch with limited space at best and a very high demand. Since it is an auction, the market value of this right is £6.5K since it is clearly worth that much to to successful bidder (and almost as much to the under bidders)

 

I disagree about the "market price" being 6.5k or anything like that. When you bid on an auction like this, you do so in the knowledge that you might pay a premium for three years but after that the price should drop down to the guide price (plus adjustments). If you are plannign to live on that mooring for a decade or more, then actually it might be worth paying that fat premium for the first three years just to secure the mooring at the more reasonable rate for the remaining seen or so.

 

The "market value" argument worries me because it's actually how CRT see it, and use it as justification for raising the guide prices in a given area. 6.5k most definitely is not the "free market rate" for the mooring -- it's a hit that someone is prepared to take in the belief that the cost of the mooring will fall after three years. It's a very subtle, but very important distinction.

Edited October 8, 2015 by old-lock-heron

[old-lock-heron]

Theres defiantly a sale there....I would ve bid for it for sure had i known.....Knowing its not great mooring makes me feel a little better then.....just found out it came up for sale & sold. I registered with cr&T and thought id be notified as intreasted in moving here! theres definatly a demand!! I did ponder about buying the hieronymous pepypes boat but not practical and needs quite a bit of work..still not sold & owners are in usa living now! A friend is selling it [or trying to...] for them and they obviously paid too much money for it from what i hear.....

sk

 

 

I often read MtB's posts and find them humourous and informative (sometimes even both at the same time) but on this matter, I disagree with him. In particular I disagree that the St Ed's moorings might be worth 6.5k for trhee years but that the Wolvercote moorings aren't. There are things to be said for and against both sites. He is correct when he says that it's right by the A34 and right next to the railway line.

 

On the other hand, a lot of the mooring sites along the St Ed's section have completely rotten bank, there is less usable width of canal there, making disturbance from enthusiastic boaters more disruptive (although this is offset by the amount of rock on the bottom o fthe canal towpath side, meaning chances are your boat doesn't so much move as grind). Wolvercote, OTOH, has nicely piled edges and a decent amount of depth, the usable width of the canal is greater and it's sandwiched between two lift bridges which are both locked in the down position and which serve as speed bumps.

 

St Ed's is closer to Summertown where there are banks and late opening shops. Wolvercote is near to Kidlington where there are banks and much larger late opening shops (you can walk most of the way there without ever seeing a car -- just follow the path through Stratford Brake wood)

 

St Eds suffers slightly more antisocial behaviour (but not nearly as much as the Hythe Bridge Arm).

 

Wolvercote has slightly more water taps per mooring.

 

If St Ed's is worth 6.5k at a stretch, then so is Wolverecote. Both are great places to be moored with some really nice neighbours.

[alan_fincher]

 

I disagree about the "market price" being 6.5k or anything like that. When you bid on an auction like this, you do so in the knowledge that you might pay a premium for three years but after that the price should drop down to the guide price (plus adjustments). If you are plannign to live on that mooring for a decade or more, then actually it might be worth paying that fat premium for the first three years just to secure the mooring at the more reasonable rate for the remaining seen or so.

 

The "market value" argument worried me because it's actually how CRT see it, and use it as justification for raising the guide prices in a given area. 6.5k most definitely is not the "free market rate" for the mooring -- it's a hit that someone is prepared to take in the belief that the cost of the mooring will fall after three years. It's a very subtle, but very important distinction.

An intelligent and well argued post.

 

It is an obvious enough point when you look at the longer term picture, though it is easy to just jump upon the apparently huge price being bid for the next 3 years.

[old-lock-heron]

 

Ah but the Greenwashing set won't be buying any dead dinosaur lumps or juice from anyone, so junior won't lose any custom.

 

They knit their own coal as I understand it. From lentils flown halfway across the planet.

 

They are tree lumps, not dinosaur lamps. Considered over a long enough period of time you could even argue that they are carbon neutral!

[TheBiscuits]

 

They are tree lumps, not dinosaur lamps. Considered over a long enough period of time you could even argue that they are carbon neutral!

 

 

Well quite. Over an even longer period they are only compressed Hydrogen, so could be considered for renewable energy grants!

 

Of course at that point we are having to use the N-word* so we must not even think about that

 

 

*Nuclear, obviously.

[mark99]

Isn't there something weird about these section 21 moorings where you can only moor there if you're a tree hugger or eco warrior?

 

 

I do actually hug the odd tree. I love em. ;0) (current book being nosed through is "Meetings with Remarkable Trees" - trees were actually murdered in the making of this book)

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/956895.Meetings_with_Remarkable_Trees

 

I have no sandals though.

 

Am I offended? no!

Edited October 9, 2015 by mark99