Narrow Boat Build?

[mooter]

1st time poster and in need of advice, we have been looking at the various second hand narrow boats advertised for sale and although there are some real beauties on the market we can't quite see the right boat. I am now thinking of the possibilities of getting a sailaway built, fitting out over a few years exactly as we would like. We would be looking at a 50' trad style and would like to get the boat completed in the next 4-5 years, just in time for retirement. We have experience of sea going yachts have owned a 32' sea going vessel for several years. Could anyone give advice at the start of this venture, any experiences of boat builders? Any advice on fitting out? Any advice at all? In advance many thanks.

[ditchcrawler]

Fit it out close to home so you don't spend all your time travelling.

[bottle]

Save your money for the five years and keep looking, the boat will be out there.

[John V]

Fit it out close to home so you don't spend all your time travelling.

 

If you go for a self fit out.....this in spades!!!

[matty40s]

1st time poster and in need of advice, we have been looking at the various second hand narrow boats advertised for sale and although there are some real beauties on the market we can't quite see the right boat. I am now thinking of the possibilities of getting a sailaway built, fitting out over a few years exactly as we would like. We would be looking at a 50' trad style and would like to get the boat completed in the next 4-5 years, just in time for retirement. We have experience of sea going yachts have owned a 32' sea going vessel for several years. Could anyone give advice at the start of this venture, any experiences of boat builders? Any advice on fitting out? Any advice at all? In advance many thanks.

Colecraft do a decent standard sailaway for a reasonable price.

If I were going down your route, I would have it spray foamed, engine fitted and lined out, maybe with an electrical system fitted.

 

Don't do what someone who passed a month ago thought and take it to Little Venice to fitout whilst living on it.

[Chalky]

Visit loads of boats. Draw up a plan based on what you've seen. Put it in a draw for a couple of months and see loads more boats. Get out the plan and see if you're still happy with it. Draw up a budget. I drew my plan in Microsoft Visio and updated it regularly as the concept and fitout developed.

 

Once the hull is ordered use the wait to draw up a detailed fit out plans. I used microsoft project to do the plan and it had about 1000 lines. It meant that when I started fitting out I didn't have to remove parts to fit something I'd forgotten. I also used the plan to schedule materials and plan what I was going to do next.

Do sketches and drawings for each section - these can be revised over again until you start fitting out and let you work things out before you start cutting timber. Do the design calculations and circuit diagram for the electrics. Revise the budget upwards.

 

When it arrives follow the plans that you've drawn up. At the end of each fit out session update the project plan, the relevant drawings, calculations and budget. Might seem like a pain but 11 years later I've found them to be invaluable when I want to make changes or update things.

 

When you do finally finish the fit out you'll find its taken about 2 to 3 times longer than initially planned and cost about twice as much!

 

Shop around for parts and fittings - there are huge savings to be made by careful/intelligent design.

There are reasons why a lot of boats follow similar design ideas. They work and have been refined over years.

 

Ask questions on here - there's lots of experience how to do (and not do) different things.

 

Have fun.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Chalky

[Boat&Bikes]

4 years is a long time! Buy a used boat that is close to what you want and have fun. Then come retirement you can always change.

 

Ian.

[David Mack]

Fit it out close to home so you don't spend all your time travelling.

And consider fitting out on land as it will probably be cheaper than paying for a mooring and you won't be tempted to go boating when you should be fitting out. And if you get the supports right you can use a plumb line and spirit level to get all the 'horozontal' surfaces parallel to the base plate and all the 'verticals' at right angles to it.

 

That said, the usual advice for newbies is to buy a second hand boat first, spend less money, get afloat straight away, get some experience, find out what works for you in terms of layout, equipment etc. And only then spend your money on a bespoke boat.

[mooter]

Fantastic advice, best to hear as many as many views as possible, some of these given me food for thought, keep them coming!

[rjasmith]

Decide whether you will be building to the RCD or just the BSS (and then not selling the boat before it has been in use for five years). If choosing to build to the RCD find out what that entails. Good place to start is here.

 

Richard

[Neil2]

4 years is a long time! Buy a used boat that is close to what you want and have fun. Then come retirement you can always change.

 

Ian.

Amen to that.

 

With all respect, if you haven't had a narrowboat before you don't yet know what you want, even if you think you do!

[Quinafloat]

We built our boat from an empty shell. The first thing is to understand the people who will inhabit it. What do they like doing, what are their hobbies, are they right or left handed etc.. That will decide what you should build to accommodate those requirements/wishes.

Then decide what you are useless at. They are the services you should subcontract. In our case it was painting the boat, doing the spray foam and fitting the engine.

Yes draw a plan and revise it, again and again till you are satisfied.

Don't waste time on a budget, it will cost what it costs. Just look at each cost with a jaundiced eye and see if you can get the same, or better, for less money.

Procurement cost us about 60% of the build time. If you buy bits, make sure you can store them securely, it will be a long time before you have a secure boat with lockable doors.

We built with the boat on a hard standing, hard work climbing up and down step ladders up to the boat, and it took a forklift to get items like the washing machine up to the boat, however it's often the only way to get reliable electric power. Expect to wear out a vacuum cleaner whilst doing the woodwork as you need to hoover up sawdust every few hours.

Good quality drills, three or four of them, and good quality drill bits save a lot of time, buy drill bits, jigsaw blades etc. from a serious tool shop, not B&Q.

Consider, at every stage, that you may have to repair, or replace items which may mean getting the old one out. Items such as calorifiers do fail and have to be replaced, even things like pipe joints need to be accessible without tearing the boat apart.

Our boat took us 9 months working 7 days a week, it is not a small endeavour, but there is something very special about living in a boat that you have designed and built yourself.

 

Incidentally, I had never been on a narrowboat, except to look at a few disappointing ones on sale, before designing and building ours. Cruising experience is not really essential to building a boat. We are now starting our 14th year living aboard since launching OUR boat.

 

I realise that what I have written is just a collection of snippets, but this is a forum, not a publishing house and I am too busy enjoying the nature to write the book.

[patty-ann]

Anything can happen in the next 4-5 years and to consider project with that time frame would not be my ideal, but then my policy is to decide what I want and go for it all out...my shell ordered Sept 2013, build commenced Oct 2013, delivered to the man who initially agreed to line her out Dec 2013. He then due to problem in my personal life went on to fit her out ensuring all decisions mine and it worked since I was able to input and help with what I could, anyway she was finished April-May 2014 and sailed to Marina. Still tweaking a few bits and she's lovely. In hindsight a bit big maybe for my needs but wouldn't swap her.

So my advice would be to go for it if you haven't found anything a year before retirement but to continue looking at 2nd hand up till then. 4-5 years seems awfully long to me to do a project but each to their own, my way not others way, i know that. I like the security of knowing its finished. To many things can and do go wrong during a build or renovation project.

[John V]

It took me a lot longer than 5 years to rebuild Sabina H but then she is a lot bigger and it included re-building the hull.

If you are doing the majority of work yourself and you are fitting in lots of "living" as well as working on the boat, I would have said that is a reasonable time scale .

As Ditchcrawler and I said earlier, you need to be close as possible to the boat otherwise travelling time/costs become a real pain.

Personally I would go for hardstanding, and a good electrical supply is essential. If you are used to yacht/cruiser fitouts you will find you can be more generous with space, the fitout of most narrowboats seems (to me anyway) to bear more of a relationship with a bijou apartment than a boat..

I am far more paranoid than it seems most narrowboaters are and I refuse to have any area of the hull I cannot get to immediately.All my flooring is in easily removed sections and nothing is built on to that floor, all cupboards etc are continued through to the bearers. It has however caused limitations with the flooring material and finish.

I think this is a salty water psychosis (compounded by a 90 year old hull) ......As you are an experienced yachtsman you will probably tend to the same direction but you will find that if you do it might limit your options unnecessarily.

Even if you are going to do your own fit out you need to visit a lot of secondhand boats (i.e. be a timewaster ) to get a good view on options and possibilities. You will probably need to do some research so that you conform with regulations and safety certificate requirements but it's not rocket science. If you do run into problems then asking on this forum will normally get you answers.......Goodluck !!!

Edited December 3, 2014 by John V

[mooter]

A big thank you to all for taking the time to render advice, some fantastic thoughts and info which I really appreciate and will definitely take on board, I will no doubt be asking more questions in the near future.

 

Thanks to all

[Bod]

Its generally thought that its your third boat, that is most perfect for your needs.

You learn alot from the first two, incorporate these lessons in the third.

 

Look at lots of boats, note the good ideas, and more importantly the bad, to avoid the same mistakes!

If you haven't already, hire one for as long as possible, out of season, if you like it in the cooler/duller times, you will love it when the sun shines.

 

Self-fitouts, my opinion, build to R.C.D. standards, the boat will then be saleable, should life turn unexpectly, a non RCD boat less than 5 years old will be almost unsaleable.

Budgets, think of a number, double it, add 10.28%, its a starting point, works for both £'s and hours. (As others have said include cost of tools needed. Decent ones cost but last, cheap ones often cannot do the job.)

 

Bod

[jollymoggy]

I'd buy a second hand one personally and then have that refitted. Since owning my boat I've seen tons of changes that would make it better, in the future I will probably just get a refit instead of buying a new boat.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

As soon as you have widows and doors in you can camp on the boat and enjoy the waterways. We did a major strip and refit on Merlin ex Eldorado trip boat. Everthing stealable had been stolen all widows where broken and 6 inches of water on the floor. After striping her down to removing the ballast we bought 13 ton of Acrington brick laminated glass for all the windows and wood for the floor and walls. Then set off from Burnley towards Taleton to be nearer home. Everytime we stopped we laid ballast or fitted windows. Finnished fitting out at Bank Newton two years later.

[starman]

It's easy to underestimate the time and skills needed to do a decent fit out. I thought six months to refit ours - took over two years!

Analyse what you like and don't like in the boats you've seen - there are only so many ways you can lay out the inside of a 50ft nb. I'd buy a used one - you can make changes with paint and fittings afterwards. And you'll probably change your mind on what's important after you've used the boat anyway.

[Bee]

It's easy to underestimate the time and skills needed to do a decent fit out. I thought six months to refit ours - took over two years!

Analyse what you like and don't like in the boats you've seen - there are only so many ways you can lay out the inside of a 50ft nb. I'd buy a used one - you can make changes with paint and fittings afterwards. And you'll probably change your mind on what's important after you've used the boat anyway.

This is good advice, especially the bit about only being so many ways to fit out a narrowboat. I have fitted out 3 and also a Dutch tug, I would not bother to fit out anothernarrowboat apart from some very special boats they tend to be similar. I would keep looking till I found one that was about right and then 'redecorate' it, prices are reasonable at the moment and you would probably spend more DIY. Use retirement to actually do stuff, we do, summer on the boat, winter doing other stuff. Edited December 6, 2014 by Bee

[OldGoat]

Unless you are a really competent DIYer I'd not attempt it. You need lots of skills one of which is to be able to visualise what needs to be done and how to do it.

Plummer,

Woodworker,

Electrician

Metal worker

Interior designer

engineering mechanic

Painter and decorator

gas fitter

and probably more

 

Either buy a serviceable used boat and cruise around or hire one of the better boats (some are designed to pack 'em in) for a week as a minimum and out of season; just to work out what works and what doesn't

 

With another hat on, I've recently found that you can buy a complete new boat for not (20% or less) more than something that's approaching 10 years old. Have a look at Cain narrowboats or Lymm marina boat sales. Both will do fully finished craft and sailaways in various stages of completion

 

A sailaway plus might suit you better as much of the boaty stuff has been done for you, leaving you to varnish, paint, lay carpets fit cupboards (care here as domestic units do not fit well) and the rest. Boaty stuff is not magic, but it needs 'the knowledge' - there are many pitfalls.

[ukdiggerboy]

Unless you are a really competent DIYer I'd not attempt it. You need lots of skills one of which is to be able to visualise what needs to be done and how to do it.

Plummer,

Woodworker,

Electrician

Metal worker

Interior designer

engineering mechanic

Painter and decorator

gas fitter

and probably more

 

Either buy a serviceable used boat and cruise around or hire one of the better boats (some are designed to pack 'em in) for a week as a minimum and out of season; just to work out what works and what doesn't

 

With another hat on, I've recently found that you can buy a complete new boat for not (20% or less) more than something that's approaching 10 years old. Have a look at Cain narrowboats or Lymm marina boat sales. Both will do fully finished craft and sailaways in various stages of completion

 

A sailaway plus might suit you better as much of the boaty stuff has been done for you, leaving you to varnish, paint, lay carpets fit cupboards (care here as domestic units do not fit well) and the rest. Boaty stuff is not magic, but it needs 'the knowledge' - there are many pitfalls.

 

 

heres a link to mine so far lol if it works

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=68909

[mooter]

Thanks once again some great advice that I am sure is hard won, I will keep you posted with my progress.