10 reason's I'm a fool for considering having my boat built new...

[matty40s]

Is it difficult to add 240v to a 12v boat?

I'm going to need a landline, but this is seriously curtailing the number of potential boats to consider (though that could, in some ways, be considered a good thing) - how difficult/costly would it be to, say, have a couple of 240v sockets and wiring installed?

 

Two options, depending on whether you require 240V all the time, or just when in a marina.

 

First, is to have an inverter from your 12V batteries, this can be as simple as a single 240V socket outlet contained in the inverter, to an all singing and dancing wired in circuit with sockets throughout the boat.

 

The second is to have a landline socket which runs to a RCD switched unit - again, a single socket to full circuit installation is a choice.

 

To have the best of both worlds, combining the above would give you a flexible system.

 

However, ask yourself if you REALLY NEED 240V - most electronic devices can be run from 12V , most kit is available with a 12V option, and there is less to go wrong.

[RichardH]

Echoing Ally - but also thinking about listening to those boat builders when you have fancy ideas.....

 

Don't forget, always think about potential resale eventually. There is a boat currently for sale at Great Haywood, it has been on sale for 3 years now, formerly with ABNB, then with RugbyBoats at two different sites, and now, at GH.

It is a good shell, and a respected fitter-outer has done the job with some lovely wood .

However, the owners ideas were far too idealised about what they specifically wanted, and probably ignored advice from all and sundry.

It has two very narrow cot-beds at the rear with high sides and central walkway, no real way of changing without ruining the lovely woodwork at a large cost, and no solid fuel stove - no real obvious place in the cabin for one without ruining the space or fine woodworking.

The boat was also for sale at a very high price(owners valuation) for a boat of the age, with a quite standard paint job - poorly touched up. The price reduced and reduced down to £50k - now back at £65k.

http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/images/pdf_files/PatienceBrochureMainPage.pdf

 

I quite like it but agree, simple show stoppers have possibly made it a nightmare to sell. They would have also been better building at 58ft to make it a relaxing choice to cruise the northern waterways. The forum has said many many times 'go 57-58' and I believe people now shy away from the 60-62 bracket before the longer ones kick back in.

[Fintan]

 

Two options, depending on whether you require 240V all the time, or just when in a marina.

 

First, is to have an inverter from your 12V batteries, this can be as simple as a single 240V socket outlet contained in the inverter, to an all singing and dancing wired in circuit with sockets throughout the boat.

 

The second is to have a landline socket which runs to a RCD switched unit - again, a single socket to full circuit installation is a choice.

 

To have the best of both worlds, combining the above would give you a flexible system.

 

However, ask yourself if you REALLY NEED 240V - most electronic devices can be run from 12V , most kit is available with a 12V option, and there is less to go wrong.

 

I expect to be in a marina for pretty much all of the time, so having the landline socket with RCD is probably the way to go. Would it be very difficult/costly?

 

Also, apologies for veering off the topic of Marjorie's foolishness, but it seemed somewhat related to the OP...

[Jo_]

Interestingly, I've yet to meet a 'new to narrowboating' built-to-order new boat owners who doesn't list at least 20 things they'd have done differently if they did it again!

 

Not that they ARE going to do it again because once you go that bespoke route, you're almost certainly - probably - committing to this as your nearly forever boat.

 

I know that if we'd bespoked a boat instead of buying second hand, I'd have a different set of criteria from the ones I thought were right five years ago. I could probably get it nearly right now but it's taken time to feel my way into what we need, what suits us.

 

But you have good floating about experience, so maybe the bespoke route could work for you. I'd just suggest you get the design drawn up and then think about it for a few months before doing any more. And if you choose a good boat builder you'll probably be booking a slot for 2016 anyway!

 

Go and visit boat owners who've built with these boat builders and listen to them talk about their design and build. That'll help.

[peterboat]

 

You're welcome! Always polite to newcomers, moi

 

 

 

 

Yes definitely. Imagine this scenario....

 

You've pqaid say 10% to grab your build slot. You go there to see the baseplate being laid out but the guys say 'come back next week, we're a bit behind'. So you go back next week and they say, 'last customer hasn't paid, can you advance us a further £2k as the steel suppliers won't send your baseplate steel. So, thinking you've already bunged them say £8k, why not? It gets your build started.

 

They lay the baseplate. And stop. They ask for more money. You give it to them, chasing your £10k. They build up the hull and it all looks good. Well quite good anyway. You question the ripples in the cabin sides. They say they haven't finished, they'll be gone when they've finished the build. You accept what they say.

 

You go back again. No engine. They ask you for more money to get it, more than the stage payments agreed. You pay it, chasing your £20k.

 

The interior fit stops. They ask for more money. You pay it, chasing your £40k. You mention the ripples in the cabin sides again. The work so far is looking a bit unsatisfactory in so many little ways, but nothing you can do about it now. You really are fully committed.

 

Next time you visit to see your build, the place is all locked up and no answer when you phone them.

 

Now what?

 

This sort of thing happens. Quite unusual but do you want to take the risk?

 

MtB

Tyler wilson think its 1K and pay when fiished

 

Peter

[Ally]

Well, "they" say you get it right on your third boat. Who knows. Again I think its down to the builder, and long discussions and research.

About 1/4 of our customers hadn't owned boats before, and they took a lot more pre build work, to sort out what they wanted and what was realistic. None have sold yet, so the work was worthwhile, although one chose to not have a stove...against recommendations... And is now thinking of adding one. Happily the design 'happens' to leave a perfect place for one to be retro fitted. So yes, listen to your builder, but at the end of it all, its your boat.

Make a must have list, then a wish list to follow, and finally a "if we can make it work" list.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Ally

[John V]

Even when you think you are working closely in touch with someone surprises happen.

Some of the rebuilding of my barge was too complex a job to be done by myself alone and I had a engineer/plater and a welder working with me (for a while 2 platers and 2 welders but that was on a straightforward bit)

 

After working out exactly the height for my wheelhouse I went away for a week working.

When I returned I found a beautiful wheelhouse 7" taller than agreed. Reason? simple ,Joey had allowed for a 6" gap for pipework etc under the flooring in the wheelhouse then measured from the top of 1" flooring.....Me? I had planned on using 1" rubber flooring direct on the steelwork

 

Changing it would have been far too much work so there are fewer places I can visit than planned

[Paul C]

 

I expect to be in a marina for pretty much all of the time, so having the landline socket with RCD is probably the way to go. Would it be very difficult/costly?

 

Also, apologies for veering off the topic of Marjorie's foolishness, but it seemed somewhat related to the OP...

 

No, it would be quite easy to do:

 

input socket £20

RCD & MCB in a box (eg a garage consumer unit) £40

galvanic isolator £100

some 230V sockets (I'd recommend doubles, might be able to do just one side of the boat eg the side with the kitchen units on?) £15

some wire £30

 

The prices are rough estimates. Don't forget to earth bond the hull.

[MtB]

 

No, it would be quite easy to do:

 

input socket £20

RCD & MCB in a box (eg a garage consumer unit) £40

galvanic isolator £100

some 230V sockets (I'd recommend doubles, might be able to do just one side of the boat eg the side with the kitchen units on?) £15

some wire £30

 

This is where it could all go very badly wrong.

 

What sort of 'wire', exactly?

 

MtB

[Arthur Brown]

Marjorie- Getting the design right so it will work when built is critical. I suggest that you look at 100 boats (at least 80 on sales listings only) and work out what you like most. Then you can write the lists

 

MUST have

would like

Can we squeeze into space and budget.

 

Many purchasers look for MOST of these items in a ready for sale used boat, it gets the price down but you also buy someones "to do list" and probably some dud batteries.

 

...................

 

Installing AC is simple, design what you want, in compliance with 18th edition and chose suitable system components, install with suitable wire and cover as appropriate with suitable decor trunking. Remember that a boat is a special location and needs special care with regards to integrity and earthing.

[Tuscan]

In my view you have two options if you have a boat built , go to a reputable builder and he will give you his standard boat but "bespoke" in some mainly decorative areas. Or go to a smaller boat fitters (but speak to some customers first) and get a builder who works with you to your joint design, the former normally stays to fairly firm price and timescale the later is more flexible takes longer and will probably cost a fair bit more than your budget but ultimately be more in tune with what you want providing you are clear what you want in the first place. . New boats like most cars devalue quickly at first. But surely no one pretends they are an investment.

[matty40s]

 

This is where it could all go very badly wrong.

 

What sort of 'wire', exactly?

 

MtB

strimmer wire silly, then you can get rid of the overgrown towpaths as well.

[Redeye]

My guess :

 

There is a large market (Caravans, camping, caravettes/camper vans, boats and cars) for 12 volt 'things' from lightbulbs to fridges,

Many TVs (even domestic ones are stepped down from 220v to 12v) operate on 12v

 

The market for 24 volt is much smaller (basically trucks with overnight cabs) so the 24v parts are much more expensive and much harder to find.

 

Go into your local chandlery and try and get a 24v bulb, TV or toilet that that flushes with 24v

NB - some boats are 24v

With regard to 24v,

 

I built my boat with 24v, pretty much everything you need is available and no more expensive that the 12 v version most decent LED lights are happy to work at 24V, Whale Lee sanitation and Jabsco all do an equivalent 24v version, I had no difficulty sourcing the necesary components. The advantages are that the current flows are half so cable sizes are much smaller. Current flows to inverters are also half. For me it was an absolute no brainer when I built the boat.

 

If you look on Midland Chandlers website they stock a wide range of 24V components.

 

Andrew

[Nine of Hearts]

Echoing Ally - but also thinking about listening to those boat builders when you have fancy ideas.....

 

Don't forget, always think about potential resale eventually. There is a boat currently for sale at Great Haywood, it has been on sale for 3 years now, formerly with ABNB, then with RugbyBoats at two different sites, and now, at GH.

It is a good shell, and a respected fitter-outer has done the job with some lovely wood .

However, the owners ideas were far too idealised about what they specifically wanted, and probably ignored advice from all and sundry.

It has two very narrow cot-beds at the rear with high sides and central walkway, no real way of changing without ruining the lovely woodwork at a large cost, and no solid fuel stove - no real obvious place in the cabin for one without ruining the space or fine woodworking.

The boat was also for sale at a very high price(owners valuation) for a boat of the age, with a quite standard paint job - poorly touched up. The price reduced and reduced down to £50k - now back at £65k.

http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/images/pdf_files/PatienceBrochureMainPage.pdf

 

So what are you saying, if you have something specific you want in a boat, do without it and live in something run-of-the-mill that you don't really like, just to save a few pennies when you come to sell?

 

That boat is just on the market for the wrong price, that's why it hasn't sold. If you want something idiosyncratic in a boat enough to pay for it, why not? The reason I designed my own boat was because I couldn't find anything that wasn't pure vanilla in the 2nd hand market. Most of the boats out there are so formulaic it's sad.

[MtB]

 

So what are you saying, if you have something specific you want in a boat, do without it and live in something run-of-the-mill that you don't really like, just to save a few pennies when you come to sell?

 

I think Matty and Ally are suggesting its not a few pennies, but quite a few thousands of pounds, possibly running into tens of thousands in the example quoted.

 

But as you say, if you can afford the loss then why not? The OP is now in a better position to make informed decisions.

 

 

MtB

[matty40s]

So what are you saying, if you have something specific you want in a boat, do without it and live in something run-of-the-mill that you don't really like, just to save a few pennies when you come to sell?

 

That boat is just on the market for the wrong price, that's why it hasn't sold. If you want something idiosyncratic in a boat enough to pay for it, why not? The reason I designed my own boat was because I couldn't find anything that wasn't pure vanilla in the 2nd hand market. Most of the boats out there are so formulaic it's sad.

The boat started on brokerage at over £70k 3 years ago and didn't even shift 18 months later at £50k. The number of people who want a boat like that must be so infitessimally small that they haven't both seen the ad yet or already have that boat..

[Ally]

Just looked at "Patience" it reminds me of one of our more recent boats, where the customers had very exacting ideas, many of which were, to our minds, rediculous. But, they are happy with her, and at least they had a stove. It wasn't a boat I would have wanted though, and took much of the pleasure out of building bespoke, for us. We drew the line at a couple if ideas they had,one of them being proximity sensor/alarms, down the outside of the cabin sides...in case they got too close to tunnel sides!! Can you imagine what that would be like in a tunnel? Or a lock for that matter...or when someone walked too close to the moored boat, or.... Well, we refused! But it goes to show, IMO, there are times to listen to your builder!

[Alan de Enfield]

. We drew the line at a couple if ideas they had,one of them being proximity sensor/alarms, down the outside of the cabin sides...in case they got too close to tunnel sides!! Can you imagine what that would be like in a tunnel?

 

But if the alarms were remotely linked to the steering then they wouldnt have to go ouutside into the dripping, bat infested dark to steer.

 

Sound a good idea to me !

[Felshampo]

I must admit after going to Crick and seeing a few bespoke boats I have to agree with many of the comments here. Some of the ideas on them may have suited the buyers but seemed totally impractical to us. I started to make a list of " good ideas" when I started looking at boats about 18 months ago and that list has since changed beyond recognition. Many of them are only cosmetic but some , like stove type, are more fundamental and we still don't agree which sort we want. I am moving towards buying a half decent "cheap" boat and finding out first hand what really matters before even contemplating a new boat - however if I win the lottery I will be knocking on Fernwoods doors the next day!

[RLWP]

Owning a boat is a great way to find out what really matters. You could save a lot of money by avoiding those inessential 'must haves' that magazines like so much

 

And you get to go boating sooner too

 

Richard

[Nine of Hearts]

Owning a boat is a great way to find out what really matters. You could save a lot of money by avoiding those inessential 'must haves' that magazines like so much

 

And you get to go boating sooner too

 

Richard

 

This is very true, I boated for several years with nothing but an assortment of tools and a big pile of wood onboard.

[Paul C]

 

So what are you saying, if you have something specific you want in a boat, do without it and live in something run-of-the-mill that you don't really like, just to save a few pennies when you come to sell?

 

 

 

I think its more that if you have something specific in mind, buy a secondhand boat which is a close match and modify it to your desires. Rather than build a new one with the possibly unpopular specific mods.

[Paul C]

 

This is where it could all go very badly wrong.

 

What sort of 'wire', exactly?

 

MtB

 

It was just a list of items off the top of my head, you could also add bootlace ferrules if you wanted to. For the correct specification of wire, do a search, there's plenty of threads which go into discussion on the right type. Personally I used black Artic 2.5mm2 but there will be an ISO or BS specification or something etc.

[MtB]

 

It was just a list of items off the top of my head, you could also add bootlace ferrules if you wanted to. For the correct specification of wire, do a search, there's plenty of threads which go into discussion on the right type. Personally I used black Artic 2.5mm2 but there will be an ISO or BS specification or something etc.

 

Best to say that in the first place then, rather than advising the poster to just buy 'some wire'.

 

 

MtB

[Marjorie]

I must admit after going to Crick and seeing a few bespoke boats I have to agree with many of the comments here. Some of the ideas on them may have suited the buyers but seemed totally impractical to us. I started to make a list of " good ideas" when I started looking at boats about 18 months ago and that list has since changed beyond recognition. Many of them are only cosmetic but some , like stove type, are more fundamental and we still don't agree which sort we want. I am moving towards buying a half decent "cheap" boat and finding out first hand what really matters before even contemplating a new boat - however if I win the lottery I will be knocking on Fernwoods doors the next day!

 

Why is stove type fundamental? I'm not being facetious, but it doesn't make a lot of difference on the type of boat I live on now - you buy the best size for the size of your space, and depending on your budget. The end. Is there more to consider on a narrowboat?