Calling continuous cruisers and livaboards

[Smelly]

My first Stirling DAR went with the alternator regulator and I couldn't say which was at fault, second's 3 years old now.

 

The good thing about smart gauge\bank is you can tell, definitively, when you're wasting fuel, mine has paid for itself many times over in the two years it's been fitted.

[David Schweizer]

Why you telling me???

Tell sue, she's asking.....

Actually, I didn't realise you were a CC'er, or lived on your boat?

 

I was replying to Sue, but offering a different experiencial view to the one expressed by yourself.

 

I would also be interested to learn where there is any Forum rule that resricts who can reply to any request for information.

Edited February 6, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Keeping Up]

Sue, the early alternators had a rather low output voltage and the early controllers focused on simply raising this. Modern alternators have a higher output voltage so on that basis they are not as vital as they used to be. However a modern controller does a lot more, including compensating for voltage drop in the wiring and in any charge splitting device (they may even replace such a device) although lossless splitters are also available, but more importantly they compensate for the temperature of the batteries and also they vary the charging voltage in the same way as does a multistage charger which everyone says is essential (improving the charge rate just as you say you thought they did).

 

So yes they do have advantages, although not everyone will agree with this especially as I have tried to simplify this statement because typing on this tablet takes forever.

[jenlyn]

 

I would also be interested to learn where there is any Forum rule that resricts who can reply to any request for information.

Who said anything about rules? The question was specifically aimed at CC'ers, the reason I suspect being, the constant use of the items by that group. Thus giving her the relevant life usage of that item. Simple really ;-)

[David Schweizer]

Who said anything about rules? The question was specifically aimed at CC'ers, the reason I suspect being, the constant use of the items by that group. Thus giving her the relevant life usage of that item. Simple really ;-)

 

I accept the presumption about relevant life usage, but your afterthought "Actually, I didn't realize you were a CC'er, or lived on your boat?" was unnecessary, and clearly an attempt to suggest that I had no right to respond, as I do not fit into the OP's stated target group.

 

It may have escaped your attention, but the issue of OP's owning threads has been covered many times on the Forum, and the accepted principle is that anyone can respond to any post, and neither the OP or any other member can challenge their right to do so. It is therefore perfectly reasonable for me to challenge you when seeking to suggest that I had no good reason to reply.

[dor]

Fitted a £15 14.4V regulator to my alternator three years ago and still going strong. Seems to do everything that the previous Sterling Pro-Digital did before. It doesn't have all the pretty coloured lights on it, but as far as keeping the batteries charged efficiently it works well.

 

ETA: The standard Vetus alternator was regulated at 14.0V, 13.9V in practice - and one I had new a year ago was the same.

 

Sorry I can't seem to get the forum quote thing to work for me Ark Right..

 

Yes it is. Alternator to Battery Digital Split charge system.

 

Now I am completely confused when you say I don't need it. To be fair to me though I am totally useless when it comes to electrics, my brain simply refuses to learn about it.

 

I was under the assumption that a system as I have will make the alternator work harder and produce more amps to charge the batteries for longer than if there was no system at all.

 

From what you are saying the alternator will do that on it's own?

 

Many thanks indeed for all your replies, it gives me some comparisons when I write my email later on other units and their life expectancy. I am sure these things are not suppose to have a self destruct button shortly after the warranty ends.

I think what he is trying to say is that some newer marine engines have their alternators regulated at a higher voltage. Old car-type alternators which used to be the norm were regulated at anything between 13.2 and 13.6V. The external alternator made a big difference by increasing the voltage to over14V. Now that marine engines have alternators with a higher voltage setting there is less to be gained by using an external regulator.

 

As mentioned above, Vetus still only seem to regulate their alternators to 14V but it is easy (and cheap) to increase this.

Edited February 6, 2014 by dor

[Ark Right]

Hi Sue

Keeping Up and Dor have it spot on.

Your engine has two modern alternators, a 50Amp and a 175Amp so split charging is not normally required. One alternator charges the start battery, the other charges the domestic bank. Providing the installation is good i.e correct size cabling and good connections then you can certainly keep hold of your money and get rid of the controller.

Hope this helps

A

[jenlyn]

I accept the presumption about relevant life usage, but your afterthought "Actually, I didn't realize you were a CC'er, or lived on your boat?" was unnecessary, and clearly an attempt to suggest that I had no right to respond, as I do not fit into the OP's stated target group.

 

It may have escaped your attention, but the issue of OP's owning threads has been covered many times on the Forum, and the accepted principle is that anyone can respond to any post, and neither the OP or any other member can challenge their right to do so. It is therefore perfectly reasonable for me to challenge you when seeking to suggest that I had no good reason to reply.

What a load of rubbish, you certainly know how to make a mountain of a molehill.......

[NigelMoore]

A voltmeter is dirt cheap. A very small amount of research will enable that voltmeter to be your only required battery management.

 

If your battery voltage is down to 11.9 volts, especially with no load, then you need to 'manage' your batteries. That means CHARGE them. For several hours.

 

If your voltmeter reads 12.4 or more, under all circumstances, then your battery management is already excellent.

 

No?

 

No. The variables affecting the volts to battery condition ratio in different situations are so great as to make the voltmeter all but useless, unless you are measuring batteries that have been 'rested' for at least 24 hours under neither charge nor discharge.

[David Schweizer]

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by David Schweizer

[mango]

Before blaming manufacturers it is worth establishing that equipment has been properly installed and used within specification. A lot of problems on boats are the result of poor workmanship, whether this is DIY or otherwise. Water and humidity can cause problems with electrical installations on boats.

 

The Sale of Goods Act provides consumers with protection for goods up to 6 years old (5 in Scotland). It is important to appreciate that the seller rather than the retailer has responsibility if a problem arises. The seller is not liable if goods are damaged by misuse/abuse.

[kevinl]

As mentioned above, Vetus still only seem to regulate their alternators to 14V but it is easy (and cheap) to increase this.

 

Could you tell me how you do this as I'd make the mod to my Vetus M3.10 if it's easy to do. Sorry about posting on this topic as I'm not a CCer or a liveaboard so shouldn't really be here

K

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

As mentioned above, Vetus still only seem to regulate their alternators to 14V but it is easy (and cheap) to increase this.

 

Could you tell me how you do this as I'd make the mod to my Vetus M3.10 if it's easy to do. Sorry about posting on this topic as I'm not a CCer or a liveaboard so shouldn't really be here:(

K

Don't let that worry you, im not even on the Canal ! ,So shouldn't even be a member (C.W.D.F) on that train of thought. I'm sure It will only upset one or two people members.

Hope you get your info re Alternator.

[Phil Ambrose]

Don't let that worry you, im not even on the Canal ! ,So shouldn't even be a member (C.W.D.F) on that train of thought. I'm sure It will only upset one or two people members.

Hope you get your info re Alternator.

Nah you'll do for us, anyone with a rubber onsie has to be OK

Phil

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Nah you'll do for us, anyone with a rubber onsie has to be OK

Phil

Ahhh ha ha giggle.

Nice one Phil.my round I think.

[blackrose]

 

Have to agree as well ours has been fitted for 9 years. The same with our 20a Sterling mains charger.

 

Me too. I fitted my Sterling charger in 2005 and it's been used virtually every day. My Sterling alternator regulators haven't been used as much but they were fitted in 2007.

[luctor et emergo]

My old boat had a Sterling split charge relay thingy, which survived being under water for a bit, The readout whatsits didn't work (meaning it didn't tell me what it was doing, not that that would have meant anything to me anyway...), but my starter was never empty, and my domestics got charged fine.

[Loafer]

No. The variables affecting the volts to battery condition ratio in different situations are so great as to make the voltmeter all but useless, unless you are measuring batteries that have been 'rested' for at least 24 hours under neither charge nor discharge.

Ok I agree there. I was trying to keep it simple for peeps who don't want to get dreadfully involved in wiggly amps, volts, amp-hours, watts etc. I don't think you NEED a battery MONITORING system if you have a basic understanding that about 12.3V, off-load, is at least 50% discharged, and/or that 12.0V fully-loaded is probably ok.

 

I can't even remember what the OP started with now, that's an age thing!

 

I removed my Sterling Alt-to-Bat hoonyacker from my circuits, and noticed no loss in performance. But it DID do a short, albeit insufficient, charge a bit quicker. Not required, in my opinion, if you move your boat. After about 3 hrs of motoring, all I had was less water in my battery cells and the same amount of Ah put in.

 

After a 5 hour cruise it really did render anything Sterling make as unnecessary. And have you ever tried talking to the guy? He has a VERY black cat indeed.

[by'eck]

Hi Sue

Keeping Up and Dor have it spot on.

Your engine has two modern alternators, a 50Amp and a 175Amp so split charging is not normally required. One alternator charges the start battery, the other charges the domestic bank. Providing the installation is good i.e correct size cabling and good connections then you can certainly keep hold of your money and get rid of the controller.

Hope this helps

A

 

Simpler maybe, but it doesn't offer the redundancy that an alternator to battery charger (of sufficient capacity ) provides in allowing both domestic bank and starter battery charging if either of the alternators fail, whilst also maximising the use of power from both alternators under normal circumstances, since they would be paralleled to a split charging device with pulsed charging.

Edited February 7, 2014 by by'eck

[Sue]

Firstly I would like to thank you all for your responses. You have taken a lot of time with what you have posted.

If as I suspect it is, an alternator controller then I doubt it is needed at all on a modern Canaline engine, no benefit what so ever.

So I would recommend to the OP just to bin it rather than being offered 30% discount again on a piece of kit you really don't need.

( Qualifier.... unless of course you have retained some sort of diode split charging system at re-engine time) Then you don't need that either!

 

 

Quote above from Ark Right.

 

Well that has surprised me and raised my eyebrows! So why didn't I get told that when the new engine was put in, and why again when that was taken out to be replaced with one that actually worked properly elsewhere, then again when the problem arose recently.. So there are three engineers from reputable boatyards hooking the darn thing up when it wasn't required!

 

I think I need to really get my head in to this electronics stuff because it seems it is costing me money at the same time as making others money! (Rant over)

 

As far as I was told.. yes told.. When the alternator that charges the starter battery has done its job and charged it I was told that it would then join the main alternator to charge the domestic bank.. I suppose then, that is wrong info too!

 

Once again I am so grateful for all the replies.

 

I now have the failed unit from the last time installed as it was repaired. I will leave as is although I have thought about ripping wires out, I wouldn't know what to rip. If it fails again I know what to do thanks to you all!

[bottle]

 

When the alternator that charges the starter battery has done its job and charged it I was told that it would then join the main alternator to charge the domestic bank.. I suppose then, that is wrong info too!

 

Yes and no.

 

You may have a voltage sensitive relay that connects the two alternators together, this may help in the initial charge but the benefit, if any, will soon reduce.

 

The batteries control the charge rate (amps in) having a large alternator, amps, (as you have) will charge the domestic batteries very well.

 

Even if you fitted a larger one the overall charging time would be about the same, batteries can only take high amperage (charging) when discharged as they become charged they will take less and less.

 

Think of your batteries as a bucket that you will fill with a hose pipe but must not overfill, initially, when the bucket is empty you can turn on the hose to fast flow but as the bucket fills you have to reduce the flow so as to not overfill.

 

Just like a battery, fast flow (bulk charge) then reduced flow (absorption) and finally a trickle (float)

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

 

Yes and no.

 

You may have a voltage sensitive relay that connects the two alternators together, this may help in the initial charge but the benefit, if any, will soon reduce.

 

The batteries control the charge rate (amps in) having a large alternator, amps, (as you have) will charge the domestic batteries very well.

 

Even if you fitted a larger one the overall charging time would be about the same, batteries can only take high amperage (charging) when discharged as they become charged they will take less and less.

 

Think of your batteries as a bucket that you will fill with a hose pipe but must not overfill, initially, when the bucket is empty you can turn on the hose to fast flow but as the bucket fills you have to reduce the flow so as to not overfill.

 

Just like a battery, fast flow (bulk charge) then reduced flow (absorption) and finally a trickle (float)

That's probably the best / simplest analogy for explaining a basic battery charging sequence I've seen. Well done. Have a greenie.

[dor]

As mentioned above, Vetus still only seem to regulate their alternators to 14V but it is easy (and cheap) to increase this.

 

Could you tell me how you do this as I'd make the mod to my Vetus M3.10 if it's easy to do. Sorry about posting on this topic as I'm not a CCer or a liveaboard so shouldn't really be here

K

You can find the regulators on ebay for about £15 or so, or if you are not happy about taking your alternator to bits, an alternator repair shop, e.g. David Edge near Tarporley, will do it for you.