"Firedart" incident

[PaulG]

So the "other site" is running a story from a certain John Hibbert about a NEW fireboat on the Thames "causing havoc" by going along the Thames as high speed to attend a fire at Hampton Court:

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/leatest/6438-fire-boat-causing-mayhem

 

Strangely enough the OPLAC website has a similar story with a picture that is even more remarkably similar - but according to OPLAC, it took place on 26th November 2012 - over a year ago!

 

https://sites.google.com/site/organisationofplacustomers/news/firedartincident

[Ray T]

NBW - "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story".

[gaggle]

I wondered if the loose brickwork falling in the tunnel on Trent and Mersey was an old story being retold or if further incidents of falling masonary had happened , they never mentioned if it was a recurring problem or not .

[Mac of Cygnet]

I wondered if the loose brickwork falling in the tunnel on Trent and Mersey was an old story being retold or if further incidents of falling masonary had happened , they never mentioned if it was a recurring problem or not .

 

Well I got an e-mail from CRT this week about it - but with a certain sense of deja vu as exactly the same thing happened several weeks ago.

[PaulG]

I wondered if the loose brickwork falling in the tunnel on Trent and Mersey was an old story being retold or if further incidents of falling masonary had happened , they never mentioned if it was a recurring problem or not .

Their first version of this story (Now the tunnels are collapsing) read "it has been discovered that there is very loose and damaged brickwork inside the [barton] tunnel that is considered dangerous".

 

The update from C&RT (Barton Tunnel is sound) stated that they recieved "a call from a concerned boater who heard a large splash behind their boat".

A detailed inspection "concluded that no deterioration or failure had occurred".

[Timleech]

Well I got an e-mail from CRT this week about it - but with a certain sense of deja vu as exactly the same thing happened several weeks ago.

The previous brief closure was of Saltersford tunnel, this one was BarNton tunnel.

 

Tim

Edited December 6, 2013 by Timleech

[SamKingfisher]

 

The update from C&RT (Barton Tunnel is sound) stated that they recieved "a call from a concerned boater who heard a large splash behind their boat".

Did they used to have a dog?

[Lockie Junior]

Rant Warning!

 

What utter tripe from NBW, regardless of when it happened. I'm no expert, but surely if there's a fire the fireboat should get there quickly. Also from looking at videos and pics the wash from these boats doesn't appear that bad. They are designed to be low wash boats after all.

 

Also those boats aren't really designed for the sea, the builders website specifically states that they are built with a "shallow draft making her ideal for use on rivers and inland waterways".

 

All that said, it didn't appear to be needed up river, but better safe than sorry I suppose.

 

Rant Over.

 

Regards,

Lockie.

[ditchcrawler]

Similar thing happened at a Saul gathering on the G&S a few years ago.

[George94]

The fireboats on the Thames are indeed a menace to other boats. They create the biggest wash of any boat on the river, by far, and absolutely no thought appears to have been paid to making them more effective at cutting through the water rather than just pushing it out of the way by brute force.

 

By contrast, the new RNLI boats, whilst bigger and more powerful than the old ones, have been designed to create less wash.

 

ETA: They were built in 1998. So very "new"!

Edited December 8, 2013 by George94

[Mick and Maggie]

I'm no expert, but surely if there's a fire the fireboat should get there quickly.

 

The emergency services have a long tradition of trying to respond to incidents without putting anyone at risk. Now just imagine that the houseboat that was swamped had someone aboard, who subsequently drowned as a result.

 

So the question is are the vessels 'fit for purpose'?

 

A vessel might have intrinsic design flaws. RORO was one such design and a terrible price was paid.

 

As you say, you're no expert, but you don't let that get in the way of having a rant.

[MtB]

It does seem rather stupid to send a fire appliance by river when the trip is two hours long. An ordinary road fire appliance could be there in minutes.

 

ISTR Ash Island had a decent footbridge for access many years ago when I nearly bought a houseboat there, and I have a feeling I saw a small road bridge now last time I drove past. But this might have been one of the other islands.

 

MtB

[George94]

On the tidal Thames, the worst boats for making a wash are the fast RIBs, which are a bloody nuisance; the Police, when in a hurry; the RNLI, ditto; the huge flotilla that follows the eights in the Boat Race (totally unnecessary); the Royal Marines at full speed (not seen since the Olympics); but above and beyond all of them, the fireboat.

 

My boat weighs around 50 tons, but it nearly mounted the pontoon when the fireboat dropped in. It's amazingly destructive; like a small nuclear device. I suspect it carries a swimming pool's worth of water inside to put out fires, the designer never having wondered what it is that a boat floats in.

[Mike Tee]

Rant Warning!

 

What utter tripe from NBW, regardless of when it happened. I'm no expert, but surely if there's a fire the fireboat should get there quickly. Also from looking at videos and pics the wash from these boats doesn't appear that bad. They are designed to be low wash boats after all.

.

 

Rant Over.

 

Regards,

Lockie.

If the report on the other side is to be believed - 2 hours to get there? They could have sent an appliance by road from Milton Keynes quicker than that.

And our appliances are designed to go round roundabouts at speed without creating wash.

[matty40s]

Similar thing happened at a Saul gathering on the G&S a few years ago.

give us a bit more detail, so NBW can have another on the spot exclusive.

[IanM]

give us a bit more detail, so NBW can have another on the spot exclusive.

 

Years ago now so it might be right up their street as an exclusive

 

Anyway...

 

A Narrowboat caught fire due to the owner popping off to the beer tent and leaving the stove door open.

At the same time 2 teenagers who had set off in kayaks up the canal were reported not to have returned.

The result were BW and the fire service flying about in patrol boats and RIBs.

All the wash from the boat movements managed to hole an ageing wooden fishing vessel moored at the boatyard which then started to sink.

Cue fears of a diesel tank toppling off the listing boat and causing a pollution incident a boom was put around the vessel as it was sinking and the water treatment works further down the canal stopped their intakes.

Then a dog was running around with no owner so that needed dealing with.

 

Was a bit of a busy night and I think I got to bed about 6 am if I remember correctly!

[ditchcrawler]

give us a bit more detail, so NBW can have another on the spot exclusive.

No they can do their own home work

Edit

I see IanM spoiled it

Edited December 9, 2013 by ditchcrawler

[smileypete]

It does seem rather stupid to send a fire appliance by river when the trip is two hours long. An ordinary road fire appliance could be there in minutes.

 

ISTR Ash Island had a decent footbridge for access many years ago when I nearly bought a houseboat there, and I have a feeling I saw a small road bridge now last time I drove past. But this might have been one of the other islands.

There's actually a fire brigade pump in a cupboard on the island, (AFAIK on the night the fire brigade didn't know where it was at least initially - will have to check on that one), so certainly no need to send a fire boat from the middle of London.

 

With most small boat fires the inside is gutted in a few minutes, unless there's nearby property in danger there's not a lot that can be done. With the fire brigade they sometimes go about things gung ho and end up filling the boat and sinking it, which in turn creates another problem...

 

Once a fire takes hold you really need a petrol driven pump just sitting right there. Maybe a HUGE fire extinguisher would work if a fire was taking hold, I'm not keen on the BSS requirement for lots of little ones, would much prefer the choice to buy one BIG one.

 

Above all best have two or more working smoke alarms, stop a fire getting started in the first place hopefully.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Barry]

Part of the problem here may be a misunderstanding of fire service turn out procedures.

 

The control room operator wants minimum information so that appliances (include the fire boat as an appliance) can be turned out in the shortest possible time. As soon as they know the address and type of building, buttons have already been punched to get appliances mobile while the conversation is still going on.

 

First appliance in attendance makes the assessment, works out exactly what appliances are required and tells control to turn back what is not needed.

 

For example the PDA (Pre Determined Attendance) for a block of flats fire might be three pumping appliances, and an aerial appliance (particularly in areas of tall buildings). If the fire turns out to be something easy on the ground floor the first appliance will tell control to turn back the other pumps and the aerial appliance. If the fire is going well the other appliances keep coming and extras may be asked for well.

 

What does not happen is that the Control Room operator gets into a long conversation about what what is on fire, where it is, how big the fire is etc etc before deciding what appliances are needed.

 

So for a fire on a boat the control room operator simply wants to know that it is a boat, where it is, whether people are on board or not. Part of the PDA for any boat will the closest fire boat. Once the first appliance determines that the fire boat is not required; possibly because they know the fire will be extinguished before it gets there; or that it is a small boat that can be dealt with from the bank, it will be turned back

[smileypete]

Thanks for that, good to have from the horses mouth so to speak.

 

So it sounds like a breakdown in communication and the Fire Dart should have been turned back way before 2 hours was up, as soon as the first tender arrived on the scene. Also part of the PDA should have been the fire pump already on the island.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Barry]

Only if the pump on the island is part of listed appliances, and maintained and tested to the required standard. Crews need to have trained on it too. If it doesn't meet those criteria, as far as the fire service is concerned, it is a first aid appliance only.

 

It's ok for the public to try it but the fire service won't be using it and it certainly won't be part of the PDA

Edited December 10, 2013 by Bazza2

[smileypete]

It's definitely their pump, also don't the fire stations have portable pumps available that they could wheel over? ISTR that some fire stations have ribs available too. Anyway hopefully lessons were learned.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[bizzard]

Its the mention of an (aerial appliance) that intrigue me, divine intervention or perhaps its a huge great remote controlled cumulus rain cloud that which on receiving the command can open up and pour down sprinkling rain upon a fire to help put it out, but where would the fire brigade keep it.

[Beaker]

Its the mention of an (aerial appliance) that intrigue me, divine intervention or perhaps its a huge great remote controlled cumulus rain cloud that which on receiving the command can open up and pour down sprinkling rain upon a fire to help put it out, but where would the fire brigade keep it.

 

Over Bill's mother's?

[bizzard]

 

Over Bill's mother's?

Oh yes of course Bills mother Mrs Tricklemore.