Dripping off the window frame

[deckhand]

We have been on our boat now for a couple of weeks, got the stove going, doors open to circulate the air around.

 

We are having to wipe the frames of the window and the windows at least 2 - 3 times a day. Then again first thing in the morning, the condensation is running.

 

Not having lived on a narrowboat before, is this normal? Is this something that we are going to have to live with?

 

Its a new boat so nothing is damp (mattress/clothes/curtains etc) but I don't want to get to the point where these things do get damp.

 

Has anyone solved this problem on their boat? Has anyone any suggestions? Should I be doing something else?

[GoodGurl]

yes condensation is normal on window frames, plenty of ventilation should stop this i.e opening windows or double glazing .

[kevinl]

Wait til winter kicks in and it's minus 5C then you'll see condensation The windows are the cold spots and so that's where the most obvious condensation happens. Plenty of ventilation = letting all the hot air out, which isn't what you want so have a search on here for all the cheap and cheerful ways to secondary glaze the windows, however, remember the moist air will find somewhere else to condense so you can end up chasing the cold spots round for a while, the moisture just moves to the next coldest place, usually a wardrobe or inside the cupboards and turn things mouldy. One definite is to have the windows open when cooking, using the hob or any gas appliance they produce a massive amount of condensation. Over to the liveaboards for some better tips.

K

[John V]

Kevini has pretty well covered it. Trouble is, it really needs to be cured at the design/fit out stage and retro solutions are not always totally effective.

[nicknorman]

It's the frames, rather than the glass, that is the problem. Even if the glass does produce condensation it runs to the bottom of the window then out through the drains. So double glazing doesn't really help. What can help is secondary glazing covering the whole frame. Some folk put clear plastic type secondary glazing up in winter, and say it makes a big difference.

 

The condensation won't make other things damp, but it may damage the wood around the frame if its not thoroughly varnished. Keep an eye out for that and re-coat with varnish if necessary.

[Mike Jordan]

I suggest that you should first look in the cabin bilges at the back of the boat to see if any water has accumulated due to small leaks or previous condensation running down the steelwork. Many boats are constructed with a sealed bulkhead between the cabin and the engine room. This is intended to stop water running forward under the cabin from stern tube leakage in the engine room. The drawback to this idea is that any water under the cabin cannot escape to the rear to be pumped out, it then goes round in a constant circle from windows and cold areas before draining back into the bilges.

Running a dehumidifier will help the situation and help to dry out the interior of the boat, but won't keep pace with habits like drying clothing, towels etc inside the boat.

My answer to drying clothing is to have a "drying cupboard" consisting of a full height wardrobe preferably with some form of heater in the bottom ( the calorifier is ideal)

A vent in the bottom of the door lets air in and a computer cabinet fan vents moist air through the roof. The fan I used consumed 0.1 of an amp and was run 24/7 without battery problems. The system works even without a heater using just the warm air from inside the boat. I doubt that you will find a complete solution to the problem but you should be able to limit the damage caused woodwork by condensation.

If your boat has a Houdini type roof hatch then condensation will be your middle name! the only answer to these is a secondary internal frame or a huge foam plug!

 

Best of luck with the life.

Mike Jordan.

[nicknorman]

...or get a tumble drier! Yes, people who leave wet washing hanging in their boat, and then wonder why they get condensation amaze me! Where do they think the water from their wet washing goes!

[Phil Ambrose]

All of the above are correct however there are simple steps you can take to help with the problem, for example we have all fixed port holes and these are D/G'ed with discs of plastic screwed overr them we have 2 Houdini hatches which rain on you but we have to panels of clear plastic which fit over them in the winter. As for wardrobes ours have vents at the bottom to allow air in and computer fans at the top which are wired into bedrppm lights. Cooking as has been said creates a lot of moisture and I fitted an 12v extractor fan over the hob which helps enormously

Winter living on a boat has many challenges and this is one of them, welcome to your new life and enjoy

Oh and yes we have a tumble dryer

Phil

Edited November 9, 2013 by Phil Ambrose

[bizzard]

You could catch it in a jar to spread on toast.

[Dottyshirl]

You could catch it in a jar to spread on toast.

VOM.... yuk lol

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

And so it begins,the symbian relationships liveaboards have with there boats.

 

All of the above,,I have found that moving / circulated air via fans is much better. pluss a Dehumidifier at night helps enormously in our case.

Good luck.

[blackrose]

Big windows = bigger window frame surface area = more condensation = another good reason for portholes. I know that there are arguments against - mainly that they don't let in enough light, but overall I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

 

That's the extent of the condensation on my porthole frames. I never have to wipe them.

 

This is the worst one:

 

But why aren't standard aluminium window frames built with thermal breaks? I know there are some very expensive double glazed window units for boats and I expect the frames are insulated, but it wouldn't be that dificult to design single glazed units with a thermal break between the inside and outside.

Edited November 9, 2013 by blackrose

[Naughty Cal]

Blackrose how do you cope with that much condensation in your boat?

[blackrose]

Blackrose how do you cope with that much condensation in your boat?

 

I get by...

[Lady Muck]

We have mostly portholes. We really don't suffer with condensation, I open all the windows when I cook, I use pan lids on all my pans I have a tumble dryer so there is never have wet washing in the boat in winter and all the portholes and windows have drip strips in them, i really recommend this stuff, its like that absorbant dishcloth stuff, but comes on a roll and you cut it to size.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B00366A8Y8

 

We also have an extractor fan above the bath, so our bathroom isn't damp either. Our bed is raised quite high up and there is storage undeneath, but air can flow around and under, so our bed doesnt get damp under the mattress either - ok its not as pretty as some modern boat fit outs because the space under the bed is totally open but it doesnt get damp or mouldy either.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Lady Muck

[Ex- Member]

All of the above are correct however there are simple steps you can take to help with the problem, for example we have all fixed port holes and these are D/G'ed with discs of plastic screwed overr them we have 2 Houdini hatches which rain on you but we have to panels of clear plastic which fit over them in the winter. As for wardrobes ours have vents at the bottom to allow air in and computer fans at the top which are wired into bedrppm lights. Cooking as has been said creates a lot of moisture and I fitted an 12v extractor fan over the hob which helps enormously

Winter living on a boat has many challenges and this is one of them, welcome to your new life and enjoy

Oh and yes we have a tumble dryer

Phil

 

We're all portholes too and don't have condensation issues other than a slight misting sometimes when cooking. We use porthole bungs also which aid insulation which are basically 2 inch foam covered with faux leather, the liners are also Oak. We do get a bit more condensation in the large pigeon hatch portholes but never to the extent of dripping and again this is directly over the cooker and can easily just be slightly opened to remove any condensation when cooking.

 

We tend to find condensation worst when raining and not when cold. We've only just realised that some dampness we felt on our duvets last week was the result of the cats going out getting wet and sleeping on our bed when we are away in the day. We bought some dehumidifier crystal last week and they produced an egg cup full of water in 3 days.

 

We've started running the stove yesterday as the O/S temp has dropped well below 12c last night, we've managed to get the stove running very nicely on low. So at the moment there's no condensation anywhere and the boat is a nice 18c through out the living area.

 

I recall last winter though it was so dry on the boat we were getting sore throats and had to put out bowls of water as the stove was so bloomin hot.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Julynian

[bizzard]

The dripping of noses can also be a bogey when coming into the warm from being out in the cold,

[deckhand]

There does seem to be a plus for portholes here as several responses have said no condensation on their portholes. Our windows are quite large (portholes in bathroom). Air circulation is not an issue, we do tend to have the hatch open, even a small bit on really chilly evenings and the fire nice and hot.

I don't have wet washing lying around, have a washing m/c but take it then up to the dryers on the marina.

Always have window and hatch open when cooking

So, seems I am doing all those things right.

 

The only thing is, is that there are 2 people and 5 dogs on board so I can only think that between us all we are generating a bit of moisture.

We are going to try the plastic covers on the windows (going to try a few and see what difference this makes) - only thing is that once on, you cannot open the windows.

 

Also will look at humidifier.

 

Shortly having a pram cover fitted so I am hoping that this wont make the issue worse.

 

As for dripping noses Bizzard, seem to have had one of those since we have been on boat (but think that is mainly due to the fact that it has rained EVERY damned day we have been on the boat)

[blackrose]

The only thing is, is that there are 2 people and 5 dogs on board so I can only think that between us all we are generating a bit of moisture.

We are going to try the plastic covers on the windows (going to try a few and see what difference this makes) - only thing is that once on, you cannot open the windows.

 

Creating a dog's home onboard is probably part of the problem...

Also will look at humidifier.

 

You mean dehumidifier?

Edited November 9, 2013 by blackrose

[deckhand]

 

Creating a dog's home onboard is probably part of the problem...

 

You mean dehumidifier?

Yes, dogs on board probably don't help

 

and yes, meant dehumidifier, don't need any more humidity

[GoodGurl]

i have plastic film on my windows and it tends to stop the water forming on the windows and stops draughts from the glass but it still forms condensation on the frames.

[canals are us?]

On my 1999 trad with spray foam insulation the worst of the condensation is on my bedroom windows and pigeon box above my bed. This I have a piece of glass to stop drips and drafts.

 

The windows either side of the room are the worst as during the night I don't have my bedroom heated or have the window open overnight in winter.

 

When cooking I open the hopper above the hob and use the roller blind to act as a hood to catch any steam from the saucepans and turn the lids so the hole to let steam out is nearest the window. Seems to work ok.

 

After having a shower I open the bathroom window and then later open the bathroom door to let the warmth into the bathroom to dry it out.

So far no issues of damp after one year of living aboard.

I do keep the boat warm and keep the fire going 24/7 in the worst of the winter.

Are there any double glazed boat windows that have a thermally broken/insulated frame? I would certainly do the bedroom at some point if so.

 

James

[kevinl]

Between you, the dogs, the drying washing, cooking and showering you're putting litres of water into the boat every day and it has to go somewhere. Either as suggested you reduce this by getting a tumble dryer, keeping lids on pans, get a fan in the shower and all the rest or you open the windows more. Paranoid me always wonders if I solve the problem of the windows with some secondary glazing where will it move to cause it won't go away, it will find another cold spot, some poorly insulated area you might not be able to see until it throws up another possibly worse problem. Electrical dehumidification is out of the question unless you're on shore power and then you have to be fairly rich to afford it. There are some kits using crystals that soak up the moisture then when full up you dry out in the oven but I don't think they'd do enough if you liveaboard, might be worth a try, Aldi were selling them a while back.

K

[Lady Muck]

I would rather have condensation on the windows where I can see it, than somewhere hidden, making black mould.

[nicknorman]

As to the crystals that absorb water only to have it removed in the oven, what is the point of that? Take water out of the air, then return it to the air by means of the oven. Oh, and add some water from burning the gas for the oven!