Overplating

[Roxy]

Does a narrowboat that has overplating work done too it reduce it's selling price in the future?

 

I'm thinking it's like a car that needs rust removed and a new section welding in, to ensure it passes for MOT - once this has been done it seems the price can drop dramatically, hence why I kept my VW camper in tip top condition

[wrigglefingers]

Does a narrowboat that has overplating work done too it reduce it's selling price in the future?

 

I'm thinking it's like a car that needs rust removed and a new section welding in, to ensure it passes for MOT - once this has been done it seems the price can drop dramatically, hence why I kept my VW camper in tip top condition

 

I'd say it increases it's value because it's work that has to be done otherwise the boat is otherwise next to unsaleable and worse, unusable.

 

And I'm not clear why if any vehicle, if it needed welding would lose value. If it's got excessive levels of corrosion, it needs dealing with otherwise eventually itll be worthless.

 

 

[FidoDido]

I would think that it tells you a bit about the boat..

 

The ideal scenario, is that it has been well looked after, lost almost no metal, and doesnt look like it will need any welding for decades. (like your camper - well maintained, so doesnt need welding = high value).

 

If it has been overplated, and done well, then this wont be such a high value, but it will still be up there somewhere, as it means you shouldnt have to worry about welding for many years. On the other hand, its less value, as there will always be some doubt as to why it needed the work done (i.e. historic lack of maintenance, or poor quality steel, or not a well built shell), and also whether the work has been done well (cant see behind the plating - is the welding work done really well? etc.

 

Worse case of all, though, is a boat which has half its original thickness of steel in places, that in the future you will need to spend ££ on to make it float.

 

I have a 24 year old Norton Canes boat (good builder), which was maintained very well by previous owners, and had at worst just 0.3mm of its original 10mm gone. So older boats can be absolutely fine if well maintained. I'm sure the converse is true also.

 

PS. I had a fairly ratty camper, but I loved it! it had lots of welding, but was solid, and I enjoyed it. Sold it for 8 times what I bought it for too, so sometimes even something a bit old and ratty, if you put the work in yourself can make sense!!

[Roxy]

I'd say it increases it's value because it's work that has to be done otherwise the boat is otherwise next to unsaleable and worse, unusable.

 

And I'm not clear why if any vehicle, if it needed welding would lose value.

 

Because it would be in 'it's' original condition - as in left the factory, not messed with or in a repaired state to make it original, or bodged hence why I'm asking,albiet a close friend of mine said an overplated boat could take on water inbetween the plates.....confused.com

[MtB]

Braodly speaking, and with exceptions, an overplated boat is well past it's best and living on borrowed time, IMO.

 

Avoid.

 

MtB

[Dalslandia]

Overplating is a band aid, so you can go to a proper place, and have the bad steel taken out and new in.

If it is copper plates on a wood boat, the copper have a great value

[David Schweizer]

There is a lot of ill informed opinion floating around on this subject, many former working boats are overplated and have not sunk yet, and in some cases the need for some overplating does not necessarily indicate a lack of maintenance or care.

 

The last survey on our boat indicated that the 6mm hull had two small areas of pitting, one about 5 metres from the stern on the port side and the other about 5metres form the bow on the starbooard side. Neither area is desperately alarming the worst pit being about 3cm across and nearly 2mm deep in the middle.

 

The rest of the hull is virtually pit free, and it has been concluded that they are probobly the consequence of the boat being moored against a steel post either way round, for several years in a yard where some boats were connected to a 240v supply.

 

I have considered having both areas plated over, but because of the hysteria that some surveyors create in such circumstances, I have discussed the problem with Roger Farrington, who has indicated he is willing to look at the pits and have a go at filling the worst ones with weld. I know that he will, as always, do an excellent job, and hope to get it done some time later this year, even though he has advised me that overplating would probably be cheaper.

Edited March 6, 2013 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

Braodly speaking, and with exceptions, an overplated boat is well past it's best and living on borrowed time, IMO.

 

Avoid.

 

MtB

I better arrange to scrap "Sickle" before her borrowed time runs out then!

 

Parts of her were over-plated in her working days with BW, and the advice given to those who did the massive restoration on her, was that those bits are fully sound and not worth disturbing.

 

So whilst her bottom, the back half of the sides and the counter have all been completely removed and replaced in new steel, she does still possess some BW over-plating on the swims. I'll let you know when that sinks her!

[blackrose]

In general replating is better than overplating. One problem with overplating is water getting between the old and new plates creating a corrosion-trap. The water could come from the inside, or from a pinhole in the welding on the outside which then rusts over and seals itself. But however the water gets in there it's not something most owners would be aware of and it's not going to be easy to get it out.

[kittsy]

when over plating it is important that the over plate is welded to the existing plate and also that there are no voids or pin holes in the weld the ingress of water will

cause rot between the skins choose your welder carefully and ask if they are coded never pay up front for materials

[David Schweizer]

I am intrigued by all these warnings of pinholes in overoplating welds. One rarely hears of newly built boats suffering from pinholes in the welds so why would a fabricator work to a lower standard than that which he uses for new build?

 

Of course if you choose to use Joe Bloggs from Back Alley Cowboys, then that is your problem, but I am certain that if you engaged a reliable builder to do the work , you would not have to worry about any "pinhole" problems.

Edited March 10, 2013 by David Schweizer

[MtB]

I better arrange to scrap "Sickle" before her borrowed time runs out then!

 

Parts of her were over-plated in her working days with BW, and the advice given to those who did the massive restoration on her, was that those bits are fully sound and not worth disturbing.

 

So whilst her bottom, the back half of the sides and the counter have all been completely removed and replaced in new steel, she does still possess some BW over-plating on the swims. I'll let you know when that sinks her!

 

It's been four days now since you posted this Alan. Is she still floating?

 

Are you SURE??!

 

MtB

[Ex- Member]

I noted during the construction of our boat the use of a Purple coloured dye applied to the welded side, It looked like White chalk on the other side. When I inquired as to the Dye I was told it was to ensure a fully watertight weld. Any slight imperfection and the dye would get through is and show on the chalk on the other side.

 

This was done by a well regarded boat builder with top rate welders, so it seems even good welders will require to check their work is good enough.

 

Interestingly there was only one other boat yard I saw this procedure being used, and that was also a well known quality builder.

[Martin Kedian]

That is called dye penetrant testing usually red penetrant dye is sprayed on the inside and a white powder on the outside the red clearly shows when a leak is present on the outside

[swift1894]

In general replating is better than overplating. One problem with overplating is water getting between the old and new plates creating a corrosion-trap. The water could come from the inside, or from a pinhole in the welding on the outside which then rusts over and seals itself. But however the water gets in there it's not something most owners would be aware of and it's not going to be easy to get it out.

 

Agreed BUT if water gets between the 2 plates does it really cause rust?

I've always understood that the presence of oxygen is required as well as water for rusting to take place. I would think that there would be very little oxygen there.

[blackrose]

I am intrigued by all these warnings of pinholes in overoplating welds. One rarely hears of newly built boats suffering from pinholes in the welds so why would a fabricator work to a lower standard than that which he uses for new build?

 

Perhaps because overplating is by its nature of a lower standard than the original build. Since overplating can't be welded on both sides that surely stands to reason. Also, pinholes in the welds of newbuilds aren't that uncommon. I've heard of plenty.

 

In any case, as I said earlier, any water which gets between the plates doesn't have to come from outside.

 

Agreed BUT if water gets between the 2 plates does it really cause rust?

I've always understood that the presence of oxygen is required as well as water for rusting to take place. I would think that there would be very little oxygen there.

 

Surely the space between the plates was full of air before the water got in? If the water doesn't manage to force all the air out you are left with water at the bottom and large air gaps at the top, which will all slosh about between the plates when the boat moves.

Edited March 11, 2013 by blackrose

[GSer]

If you have a boat and it needs overplating/replating to extend it's life then go for it, at least you can be on site making sure its the right job done well by careful competent tradesmen, but if the plating has already been done by previous owners you need to trust their judgement and from what i,ve seen of owners bodges over the years, penny pinching and shortcuts are quite common.

 

 

I'd prefer not to take the risk if I can avoid it.

[lyndsey]

There is a lot of ill informed opinion floating around on this subject, many former working boats are overplated and have not sunk yet, and in some cases the need for some overplating does not necessarily indicate a lack of maintenance or care.

 

The last survey on our boat indicated that the 6mm hull had two small areas of pitting, one about 5 metres from the stern on the port side and the other about 5metres form the bow on the starbooard side. Neither area is desperately alarming the worst pit being about 3cm across and nearly 2mm deep in the middle.

 

The rest of the hull is virtually pit free, and it has been concluded that they are probobly the consequence of the boat being moored against a steel post either way round, for several years in a yard where some boats were connected to a 240v supply.

 

I have considered having both areas plated over, but because of the hysteria that some surveyors create in such circumstances, I have discussed the problem with Roger Farrington, who has indicated he is willing to look at the pits and have a go at filling the worst ones with weld. I know that he will, as always, do an excellent job, and hope to get it done some time later this year, even though he has advised me that overplating would probably be cheaper.

 

 

Hi David.....We are in the throws of buying of a new boat which was extended by Roger farrington some years ago.....The survey has suggested it is in need of welding. I would love for the boat to go back to Roger as he comes highly recommended. Do you have a contact number for him as he is local to me and I cannot seem to find a number online.

cheers

 

Lyndsey

[Batavia]

 

 

Hi David.....We are in the throws of buying of a new boat which was extended by Roger farrington some years ago.....The survey has suggested it is in need of welding. I would love for the boat to go back to Roger as he comes highly recommended. Do you have a contact number for him as he is local to me and I cannot seem to find a number online.

cheers

 

Lyndsey

Roger trades as Ivy Bridge Marine and his phone number is 01327 704847. You will probably have to leave a message on the answerphone.

 

Chris G

[lyndsey]

Cheers Chris...much appreciated

[OldPeculier]

I am no expert but have been looking at boats from the lower end of the market for a while.

 

I get the feeling that most boats that have been over plated or need over plating were built using thinner steel than is common today. A 25 year old 6mm hull is bound to be a bit on the thin side by now.

 

Talking to boat yards, most agree that over plating is a temporary fix but one that should give an old boat another 10 years or so in the water.

 

Whether an over plated boat is worth less than a similar unmolested one is a difficult question.

 

Personally I would prefere a boat that needs over plating rather one that has already been done. But that is just me, I like to see exactly what is going on.

 

 

I think it is quite easy to get carried away when looking at glossy magazines and going to boat shows, seeing all those beautiful new boats. In the real world there are thousands of old boats giving good service being patched and plated as they need it.

 

 

[Polishicebreaker]

I am no expert but have been looking at boats from the lower end of the market for a while.

 

I get the feeling that most boats that have been over plated or need over plating were built using thinner steel than is common today. A 25 year old 6mm hull is bound to be a bit on the thin side by now.

 

Talking to boat yards, most agree that over plating is a temporary fix but one that should give an old boat another 10 years or so in the water.

 

Whether an over plated boat is worth less than a similar unmolested one is a difficult question.

 

Personally I would prefere a boat that needs over plating rather one that has already been done. But that is just me, I like to see exactly what is going on.

 

 

I think it is quite easy to get carried away when looking at glossy magazines and going to boat shows, seeing all those beautiful new boats. In the real world there are thousands of old boats giving good service being patched and plated as they need it.

 

 

Very good point. I live on the river where most of the boats are held together with car body filler, overplating is considered a luxury.

Personally, my own boat was heavily neglected by the previous owner and I''ve replated some and will overplate parts where it's too difficult to do the former. To suggest overplating is a 'band aid' solution entirely depends on the quality of the work and its subsequent maintenance and is a slightly ridiculous statement to make x

[Pykebird]

Having just had my boat re plated again as the last welder was crap, I am now sure the work has been done properly and she should last me at least another 10 years! Better the devil you know, not got wet feet yet MB.

[CaptainBirdseye]

One famous cowboy overplater works out of Willowbridge marina, near Fenny Stratford, on the grand union. BEWARE !!

[George94]

Perhaps because overplating is by its nature of a lower standard than the original build. Since overplating can't be welded on both sides that surely stands to reason. Also, pinholes in the welds of newbuilds aren't that uncommon. I've heard of plenty.

 

In any case, as I said earlier, any water which gets between the plates doesn't have to come from outside.

 

 

 

Surely the space between the plates was full of air before the water got in? If the water doesn't manage to force all the air out you are left with water at the bottom and large air gaps at the top, which will all slosh about between the plates when the boat moves.

 

Hmmm. I disagree. Over-plating might well be done to a higher standard than the original build. Why shouldn't it be?

 

A good weld doesn't have to be done on both sides.

 

This country is full of Dutch barges, a number of which are over 100 years old, and many of which have been over-plated. The original metal was often only 4mm or 6mm, unlike the 12mm often seen on NBs.

 

You seldom hear of a Dutch barge sinking. And you wouldn't have much luck finding a nice looking barge if you insisted on one that hadn't been over-plated.