Historic Boats for sale online

[Derek R.]

Lol! Only the hull was black, and cabin sides when ply.

The spray foam was done in '86 or '87, in Aylesbury basin. The team came out in a van. After about a year, you could hear it 'letting go' of the steel now and then. It sounded like someone crushing cornflakes in their hand. It doubled as a water vapour barrier too.

 

Prior to the steel cabin going on and the back end rebuilt -

 

 

The issues were with spread; the roof top water tank; and barely two inches of gunnel, not to mention the BMC Commodore drumming away under the steerers nose.

 

Basic, but cosy. Gas lights.

 

 

[roland elsdon]

First pick is how i remember her!

Think i have some slides of her somewhere . We were using slides up until about 1989 when the cheap processors ( bonusprint) started.

[magnetman]

What a beautiful bow those ones have. Lovely. 

[John Brightley]

Thanks @Derek R. for posting all the extra information about Yarmouth. It's better than the current advert ! I remember when she was all black too. 

[alan_fincher]

The latest take on selling BADSEY

 

Worth a read just for the quality rant by the seller...

 

Quote

WELL HERE WE ARE AGAIN - AFTER 12 MONTHS WASTED ? BY 2 SEPERATE PROSPECTIVE BUYERS WHOSE DREAMS TOOK US ALL THE WAY TO AGREED HANDOVER DAY WHEN EACH SUDDENLY HAD A FINAL PAYMENT PROBLEM. BOTH HAD PAID A DEPOSIT AND WE WERE TOLD BY THE AGENT THAT THE SURVEU ONE OF THEM HAD WAS VERY GOOD (BUT DENIED TO US UNLESS WE PAID £500 ! declined). THE OTHER SAID HE HAD A BUYER FOR HIS HOUSE AND AGREED TO BUY BADSEY BUT WE HAD TO WAIT FOR MONTHS FOR IT TO COMPLETE BY WHICH TIME, ALTHOUGH HE SIGNED TO SAY HE WAS HAPPY WITH THE BOAT, AND ARRIVED TO TAKE OWNERSHIP AND MOVE ON TO BADSEY, WHICH WE HAD TO AGRESSIVELY PREVENT AS HE ALSO HAD A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING HE HAD TO TRANSFER THE CONTRACTED BALANCE. SO WE ARE ADVERTISING HERE IN THE HOPE OF FINDING A NORMAL SORT OF PERSON WITH THE WILL AND MEANS TO BUY, LOVE AND TAKE CARE OF BADSEY.

 

I'm not sure why the seller thinks spelling out all the above is likely to increase BADSEY's appeal to any other potential new buyer.!

 

 

13 hours ago, Francis Herne said:

Motorised butty, if it has a Lister?

 

Price seems high to me even with the increase in boat prices recently: it's well above the previous sale (which gave much more useful information) despite a few years of apparent neglect.

 

Previous listing https://boats-from.co.uk/not-specified/historic-narrowboat-1898-bantock-butty-72-liveaboard-719206

 

A very much older incarnation of RENOWN, (1972, I think)....

[Derek R.]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

The latest take on selling BADSEY
 

 

I can understand the sellers frustration, but the description details : "Beam 6' 6" ? 😉

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

 

I can understand the sellers frustration, but the description details : "Beam 6' 6" ? 😉

Or a draft of no feet and 31 inches?

[Derek R.]

Thank heavens it's not 'metres' . . . .

[matty40s]

38 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Or a draft of no feet and 31 inches?

I think its sat on a lot of silt....

[James Owen]

8 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

The latest take on selling BADSEY

 

Worth a read just for the quality rant by the seller...

 

 

I'm not sure why the seller thinks spelling out all the above is likely to increase BADSEY's appeal to any other potential new buyer.!

 

I can't help but feel that "our financial agreement fell through" is in fact code for "we've come to our senses"...

[Francis Herne]

1 hour ago, James Owen said:

I can't help but feel that "our financial agreement fell through" is in fact code for "we've come to our senses"...

Compared to, say 'Bognor' linked recently the price doesn't look unreasonable. I'm a bit surprised it hasn't sold by now. What am I missing?

[James Owen]

5 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

Compared to, say 'Bognor' linked recently the price doesn't look unreasonable. I'm a bit surprised it hasn't sold by now. What am I missing?

The parlous condition perhaps?

[Francis Herne]

17 hours ago, James Owen said:

The parlous condition perhaps?

Of which?

 

Badsey claims to have a decent hull and engine, and has at least some fitout, compared to Bognor obviously needing a ton of work. Seems worth the price difference, at least if time is included, unless there's more wrong than the ad lets on?

 

The state of the wooden under-canvas 'cabin' is certainly something I'd want to look closely at...and triangular definitely a Marmite thing!

 

[asking these sorts of questions as I'm seriously considering buying a historic boat at some point - probably neither of these, but it's useful to see what people think is a fair price and the factors going into that]

Edited July 4, 2023 by Francis Herne

[Derek R.]

A "fair price". A seller will consider his item is being offered at 'a fair price', a buyer will think different, unless their desire for the item overwhelms logic.

Therefore, a 'fair' price is determined by the two individuals agreeing. But is it a 'fair' price? There are as many fair prices as there are opinions.

However, at auction, desire and logic battle with each other leading to unprecedented gains - disaster, or simply no sale.

[alan_fincher]

4 hours ago, Derek R. said:

A "fair price". A seller will consider his item is being offered at 'a fair price', a buyer will think different, unless their desire for the item overwhelms logic.

Therefore, a 'fair' price is determined by the two individuals agreeing. But is it a 'fair' price? There are as many fair prices as there are opinions.

However, at auction, desire and logic battle with each other leading to unprecedented gains - disaster, or simply no sale.

 

In my relatively limited experience of selling/buying historic boats, the price that might be achieved, (which may or may not be "a fair price"), can be heavily influenced by how many interested potential buyers there are.

 

Irrespective of type, (unconverted, under cloths converted, full cabin converted), and size , (full length or shortened), they are all very much a niche market, and many may not tick the boxes of what a potential "historic" purchaser is seeking.  If a boat comes to market that multiple people have an interest in, then it may well change hands for far more than if only one person is genuinely interested - it can take months or even years before a decent candidate boat becomes openly available, and then someone may pay well over the odds to secure it, rather than go back to another indeterminate period of waiting.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that far more "historics" are sold by word of mouth than ever actually come onto the open market, openly advertised and in theory available to anybody with the money.  Even when openly advertised some sellers will prefer to sell to someone they think should be a good custodian to the boat, and may be more reticent to sell to someone who thinks they want an "historic", but don't realise what that may mean in practice

[Francis Herne]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

The other thing to bear in mind is that far more "historics" are sold by word of mouth than ever actually come onto the open market, openly advertised and in theory available to anybody with the money.  Even when openly advertised some sellers will prefer to sell to someone they think should be a good custodian to the boat, and may be more reticent to sell to someone who thinks they want an "historic", but don't realise what that may mean in practice

There's probably a better term than "historic". 🙃

 

Very true, and that's why it's a future ambition rather than an immediate one.

So far I've spent a while on Atlas and Malus with the BCNS - they're great boats, but certainly pose a lot more challenges than my current tiny thing. Going from 30' to 140' has been a learning curve with a few bumps and a lot of shoving off shallow bits, although I seem to be getting better at it now...

 

A friend sold his Northwich Trader recently because he was fed up of getting stuck around the BCN (and that's a modern boat with no width problem or hull maintenance issues) so I'm not going to underestimate the downsides ... but there's a feeling about big old boats I love, and didn't fully realise I was missing when I bought Lark for the sake of an easy boating life.

 

When I run into people with old boats I tend to quiz them about the boat and their experiences with it. Still need to talk to a lot more people for many reasons, not just the ones you mention.

 

Keith Lodge told me I'd be daft to buy an old boat, and to look into replicas like his own Hadar. Possibly not wrong, but there are even fewer good replicas out there than the real ones!

Edited July 4, 2023 by Francis Herne

[alan_fincher]

26 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

Keith Lodge told me I'd be daft to buy an old boat, and to look into replicas like his own Hadar. Possibly not wrong, but there are even fewer good replicas out there than the real ones!

 

Yes, if you mean a really convincing "replica", (Brinklow Boats use the term "Remake"), then I agree, there are precious few about.  I'm not aware of anybody making full length "replicas"  or "remakes" that use riveted construction for the hull.

[Francis Herne]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Yes, if you mean a really convincing "replica", (Brinklow Boats use the term "Remake"), then I agree, there are precious few about.  I'm not aware of anybody making full length "replicas"  or "remakes" that use riveted construction for the hull.

Some of the ones with welded 'rivets' look fairly convincing above the waterline - and a lot of original boats seem to have welded replacement bottoms/footings anyway! I've heard about the costs of hot riveting these days, can't imagine it being viable for a new build.

 

EDIT: I suppose a replica Severner could be welded and still historically accurate? Strange boats though.

 

EDIT 2: I saw "Anson" come up for sale recently - with a welded steel hull and 6'10 beam, the 'Admirals' seem more practical than older working boats. Not the most beautiful, although when I passed "Effingham" it did look imposing with its shiny BW paint job. Anson's big passenger-boat cabin and rather bashed hull put me off looking closer which I kind of regret now.

 

So far I think I'd prefer a boat with an actual history, even if that does come with a stack of headaches. I can't give a rational reason why though. My father was an archaeologist and my other hobby is ringing church bells (and looking at the architecture) so I was probably just raised to appreciate old things. 🙂

Edited July 4, 2023 by Francis Herne

[MtB]

26 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

and my other hobby is ringing church bells (and looking at the architecture)

 

Same here! A ringing room has a similar 'old' feel about it as a historic boat. And ringing the bells is a GREAT excuse for poking about in churches and taking in the magnificent, massive architecture. I get challenged more often these days when hanging about in churches and asking about the bells is a great way of responding to suspicious local busybody who wants you to buzz off out of their church. 

 

A typical spiral staircase up to the bells:

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here's a view from the ladder up to the ringing room at Andover...

 

 

[Francis Herne]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

A typical spiral staircase up to the bells:

 

This was my 'favourite' one, at Wicken. Made of something barely harder than chalk, and well on its way to being a helter-skelter:

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Francis Herne
smaller image

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Francis Herne said:

Keith Lodge told me I'd be daft to buy an old boat, and to look into replicas like his own Hadar. Possibly not wrong, but there are even fewer good replicas out there than the real ones!

Here you are!

https://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/home/index.php/boats-for-sale

1199-brochure.pdf

 

 

[Francis Herne]

19 hours ago, David Mack said:

Here you are!

Thanks for pointing that out, although I had seen Tuco on the market already. Have often admired Shorelark, a very similar boat owned by a BCNS member. Gardner in that one, beautifully finished inside and out. Slightly more cabin and less tug deck.

 

 

I think my ideal would be an unconverted boat, with a small cabin extension or under-canvas 'pod' for a toilet and shower, but mostly open hold. Big steel cabin with a tug deck not quite what's in my mind's eye, and taking an angle-grinder to a brand new sprayfoamed cabin would be a bit mad.

 

Of course that might be a bad idea. Probably another couple of years before I'm confident enough to actually try to buy one, assuming I don't come to my senses first. It's not that long since as a novice boater I thought a little aluminium thing was ideal (and indeed it's been a lot of fun, there are places I've been with Lark that would have been impossible with a big deep-drafted boat).

Edited July 5, 2023 by Francis Herne

[alan_fincher]

56 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

I think my ideal would be an unconverted boat, with a small cabin extension or under-canvas 'pod' for a toilet and shower, but mostly open hold. Big steel cabin with a tug deck not quite what's in my mind's eye, and taking an angle-grinder to a brand new sprayfoamed cabin would be a bit mad.

 

Very occasionally something like that comes up, but it is VERY occasionally.

Far more likely, of course is a totally unconverted motor.

 

Quite  a few on offer at the moment with mostly an under cloth conversion - I can think of BADSEY & CHISWICK, (plus CYPRUS, if owner will sell separately from its butty).

 

If you want a completely unconverted one, then there is VESTA, but she is 40 Feet long, not 72 Feet long

[Francis Herne]

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Very occasionally something like that comes up, but it is VERY occasionally.

Far more likely, of course is a totally unconverted motor.

 

Well, yes - with a totally unconverted boat I could build my own little 'pod' to sit in the hold.

 

Badsey was the one I was wondering about - it's a wooden under-canvas conversion with the beams and stands retained, so would (maybe?) be relatively easy to 'de-convert' a couple of bays.

 

Chiswick is steel under the canvas with only a short length left open, and has a smart interior fit-out priced accordingly, so not sensibly de-convertible.

 

Bognor I could imagine cutting the cabin off because it's an empty shell to begin with, but with the weird engine and probably a lot of work needed on the hull it doesn't seem reasonable compared to other boats for the cost/time, nor really a project within my capabilities (besides just paying someone competent to do everything, and then it's really not economic).

 

Vesta looks lovely - I saw her by Trent Lock a couple of months ago - just not really what I imagine as the boat for me.

 

In all honesty, as in the last post, at this moment I don't feel I have the skills or knowledge to take care of one of these and not get stuck everywhere. A couple more years of playing with Atlas & Malus and whatever other old boats I can get near and I'm hoping that'll change.

 

That being the case I'm not so much interested in specific boats on the market right now for their own sake - more the general range of boats and how people with vastly more experience assess them. Things to be wary (or just aware) of, approximately how things like a wooden/steel/non-existent cabin conversion or Bognor's strange engine affect value, odd things like the shape of the 'replica' rear end on "Achilles" a few pages ago. I've learned quite a bit just quietly reading the thread for the last ~year.

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Francis Herne

[stagedamager]

44 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

snip

(plus CYPRUS, if owner will sell separately from its butty).

snip

I think the pair have been split if recent Facebook posts are correct.