Survey disgrace

[Paul C]

Can we clarify - has the surveyor 'sold' a written copy of the full survey to the seller? Or given him a verbal summary of the main faults which appear on the survey. This is a massive difference.

 

On another point, if you look at a boat, put a deposit down and get a survey, then its quite possible it will reveal minor faults which are not enough for the seller to oblige to return the deposit; but might cause enough concern to warrant a negotiation on price or the seller rectify the faults if a price is already agreed. Its impossible for the seller to rectify the faults if he doesn't know what they are....so in this instance the seller will need to see the survey.

[Nightwatch]

I'm sure this practice happens in the property market.

 

I would be equally livid also.

 

Martyn

edit to add. I was beaten by a couple of posts prior to my own. The above comment may well happen, but not directly from surveyor to vendor, but via the selling agent.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Nightwatch

[Guest]

I'm sure this practice happens in the property market.

 

I would be equally livid also.

 

Martyn

It likely does. Still unethical in my world though. I have done numerous electrical inspections over the years on properties. The only person who got the report was the prospective buyer/interested party. What he/she did after that was their business. Re. your edit: I think that does happen a lot

Edited February 8, 2013 by Guest

[Nightwatch]

It likely does. Still unethical in my world though. I have done numerous electrical inspections over the years on properties. The only person who got the report was the prospective buyer/interested party. What he/she did after that was their business. Re. your edit: I think that does happen a lot

Yeah! Sorry about the edit. Puts a different angle on it.

[Guest]

Can we clarify - has the surveyor 'sold' a written copy of the full survey to the seller? Or given him a verbal summary of the main faults which appear on the survey. This is a massive difference.

 

On another point, if you look at a boat, put a deposit down and get a survey, then its quite possible it will reveal minor faults which are not enough for the seller to oblige to return the deposit; but might cause enough concern to warrant a negotiation on price or the seller rectify the faults if a price is already agreed. Its impossible for the seller to rectify the faults if he doesn't know what they are....so in this instance the seller will need to see the survey.

The person footing the bill has the right to pass information to the seller, and nobody else. Should the prospective buyer wish to negotiate a discount, he can then produce the report as evidence.

In the unlikely event that I sold my boat, I wouldn't expect the surveyor of the prospective buyer to have any communication with me whatsoever (other than arranging drydock times or similar.)

 

Yeah! Sorry about the edit. Puts a different angle on it.

No apology necessary, it is a valid point, and I know estate agents used to do similar with reports on houses etc.

[Mike Tee]

Can we clarify - has the surveyor 'sold' a written copy of the full survey to the seller? Or given him a verbal summary of the main faults which appear on the survey. This is a massive difference.

 

There is a difference, but surely it is totally unethical to do either? If the guy paying for the survey tells the seller why he is not proceeding, and gives specific detail, that is one thing, but he is not under any obligation to do so - unless of course it is one of these deals where a deposit is paid, and the prospective buyer has to support his reasons for backing out in order to get back his deposit.

 

On reflection, I don't think I would go down that route of paying a deposit before a survey - I'd walk away and look elsewhere.

[bowten]

Personally I think it should be up to the seller to supply a survey.When selling a car and it only has a few months MOT sellers usually supply a 12 months MOT with the sale.If I was to sell a second hand boat it would sell quicker if I supplied the survey and I am sure buyers would want to look at my boat before the others.

[Pennine]

Fleabuy advert now says "Save yourself £500. Full 'out of water' inspection by marine surveyor" prominently displayed in the description now. Four item revisions made today.

[Paul C]

There is a difference, but surely it is totally unethical to do either?

 

I agree partly but it seems to be okay according to the governing body:

 

Ok

 

So having spoken with someone from the YDSA who regulate ( ie protect the interests of ) surveyors they have informed me its entirely normal for a surveyor to divulge ( verbally ) the results of a survey to a vendor .

I found this a bit surprising to say the least .

So that's that then it would appear . I lose and the boat owner , mooring owner and surveyor win .

Never mind ...... Onwards

 

Cheers , chubby

 

 

 

 

On reflection, I don't think I would go down that route of paying a deposit before a survey - I'd walk away and look elsewhere.

 

If you take that approach, I think you'd be looking for a long time before you buy a boat. For example, normally people look very closely at a boat when they're in the market for buying one, have the cash ready and are serious buyers - mainly because a boat is an expensive item. So an awful lot of the checks you'd want to do, are already done. For example the interior condition doesn't really need a surveyor to assess. The survey is mainly for the out-of-water stuff, hull thickness, and any checks which need specialist equipment. There's also the risk of paying for a survey, then the boat being sold to someone else.

[chubby]

Hi everyone

 

I've not been on here for a few hours ..... I'm looking for a boat to buy !!

It does seem to me all a bit clique y between the boat owner who also owns nearby moorings and the surveyor .

I did not pay a deposit . We agreed a price - subject to survey . I was happy as it seemed nice . Nice inside , bit of rust here and there . But all in all I was happy.

The survey noted a few things that were going to cost money to put right . My idea of the process was you then used the info to renegotiate until both parties were happy again . The seller was adamant that he would not budge and by the time I added the costs of the work to the cost of the purchase it seemed no worthwhile. I explained to the owner the reasons why at 6.30 pm on Thursday night and he'd already spoken to the surveyor .

The owner has been on eBay several times . At noon today it stated " full out of water WRITTEN report available - save £ 500 " . Somewhat annoyed , I asked the surveyor how this could be . The surveyor appears to gave " leant" on the seller and the ad now has had the word " written report " removed . Ultimately the owner has been speaking with the surveyor and used the info to create a to do list which he told me he was in the process of getting fixed ? It seems unlikely to me he'll do so and if he goes it ll prob be on the cheap cos he wants rid of it .

You live and you learn . Never mind there'll be other boats .

Cheers , chubby

[tillergirl]

The surveyor we used asked the vendors to leave the shed when he spoke to us on the day of the survey..............not that there was a problem but he told us that anything he explained to us written or verbal was what we were paying him for. We then discussed a few points with the vendors upon receipt of the written report and negotiated the price from there. This was done through the marina where the boat was advertised for sale. I believe that's the way it should be done. IMO if the surveyor has spoken to the vendors he has broken his contract with you and FFIW you are still entitled to a copy of the report as you paid for that.

[chubby]

Hi

 

The surveyor says I will still get a written report . He says also that he won't be providing the seller a written copy. The seller said he could only offer me a small amount of " compensation " tho because he had to bear in mind that he was having to pay the surveyor an unspecified amount .

So , by the time I have the report the seller will already have had notice of the faults from the surveyor and acting upon them .

I spoke with someone at an organisation called YDSA which is an accreditation that appeared on his invoice but they told me that it was normal for the surveyor to be in touch with a seller . So it seems no breach of contract has occurred ? Bizarre .

There's always going to be folk who behave less than honourably in every walk of life .

I'll try to ensure that the next surveyor is more professional .

Cheers

[matty40s]

Fleabuy advert now says "Save yourself £500. Full 'out of water' inspection by marine surveyor" prominently displayed in the description now. Four item revisions made today.

I am saying nuffink

[alan_fincher]

Well I'm out of line with a few on here, it seems.

 

I can't believe the answer you have got from the YDSA, frankly.

 

If you are commissioning and paying for a survey, I don't believe the surveyor should be disclosing anything about what he has found to the vendor - even verbally.

 

I'm staggered he has.

 

If this happened to me, I'd be mighty pissed off.

[Boat&Bikes]

Well I'm out of line with a few on here, it seems.

 

I can't believe the answer you have got from the YDSA, frankly.

 

If you are commissioning and paying for a survey, I don't believe the surveyor should be disclosing anything about what he has found to the vendor - even verbally.

 

I'm staggered he has.

 

If this happened to me, I'd be mighty pissed off.

 

I am with Alan,you pay for a service you and you alone receive the service.

 

Ian.

[Tuscan]

Hi

 

The surveyor says I will still get a written report . He says also that he won't be providing the seller a written copy. The seller said he could only offer me a small amount of " compensation " tho because he had to bear in mind that he was having to pay the surveyor an unspecified amount .

So , by the time I have the report the seller will already have had notice of the faults from the surveyor and acting upon them .

I spoke with someone at an organisation called YDSA which is an accreditation that appeared on his invoice but they told me that it was normal for the surveyor to be in touch with a seller . So it seems no breach of contract has occurred ? Bizarre .

There's always going to be folk who behave less than honourably in every walk of life .

I'll try to ensure that the next surveyor is more professional .

Cheers

 

 

Both the vendor and the surveyor seem not to have acted in your interests at all. The good news is you didn't buy the boat as by the sounds of it you wiould have further problems. With your next survey I would ascertain how confidential the information will be kept before continuing , good luck.

[Mike Tee]

I agree partly but it seems to be okay according to the governing body:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you take that approach, I think you'd be looking for a long time before you buy a boat. For example, normally people look very closely at a boat when they're in the market for buying one, have the cash ready and are serious buyers - mainly because a boat is an expensive item. So an awful lot of the checks you'd want to do, are already done. For example the interior condition doesn't really need a surveyor to assess. The survey is mainly for the out-of-water stuff, hull thickness, and any checks which need specialist equipment. There's also the risk of paying for a survey, then the boat being sold to someone else.

I've owned (and sold) quite a few boats since the late sixties, never paid a penny before the survey, never lost a boat I'd had surveyed and wanted, so obviously my system works for me. Each to his own.

 

I'm totally with Allen in his comment, if I pay for a service then the result of that service is my business and nobody else's.

[chubby]

Hello

 

Alan said he d be pissed off and indeed I am . I just can't be bothered to stay annoyed. The owner said to me plans to have the boat resurveyed at his own expense ( by the same surveyor ) in the next day or two . He will then of course receive a written report and can advertise his boat using the words " WRITTEN REPORT AVAILABLE " as was written on his eBay ad yesterday untiladvised/ordered to remove it following a call from the surveyor after I complained to the surveyor .

 

I expect no second survey to take place at all. There will simply be a different date on the report using the same info from my survey . If anyone wanted to know if the survey he offers to prospective buyers is his own , commissioned and paid for by him I would want to see an invoice for the slipway fee from the local boatyard . If he has no invoice then it didn't come back out of the water and so cannot have been resurveyed .

I might still get back onto YDSA on Monday as I think thier comments were not acceptable really . The surveyor emailed me to say that any info the seller has came from me when I explainer to him my reasons for not proceeding with the purchase even tho he had spoken with the seller within hours of calling me .

It's all a bit of a local boys stitch up really but there are other boats and I'll get there soon enough .

Cheers , chubby

[Chris Pink]

If it was me I would be examining the surveyors terms and conditions then I would take him to the small claims court unless there was an explicit condition saying the results would be made public.

 

The summons itself would quickly lead to an out of court settlement.

[matty40s]

perhaps anyone local could keep an eye out for the boat being slipped/craned or not on Monday.......

[scrumpylurcher]

For many of the reasons already mentioned in this topic, I would not trust a survey done on behalf of the vendor and presented to me as a potential buyer. I am sure if there turned out to be a problem after purchase the original surveyor would not take responsibility. There is no way I could know what instructions were given originally or how comprehensive the survey was. By the same token I would not expect my surveyor to be discussing or offering details of the survey I had paid for without prior discussions with me.

[chubby]

Hi

 

Chris

Towards the bottom of the terms of survey it states

" THE REPORT IS PREPARED SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CLIENT TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED AND BY WHOM IT IS COMMISSIONED .. "

 

Bearing this in mind I cannot fathom out the YSDA saying its normal to discuss the results with with anyone else ?

Ultimately I cannot prove anything except that to prove the boat was reexamined there ought to be another slipway invoice from the boatyard with a slightly later date than 07/02 . If the seller doesn't have one then it means it has not been removed from the water .

 

I'll think about small claims court but I expect this to be hopeless and long winded .

Would a threat to do this really make him reconsider ?? Has anyone done this recently ? Any success ?

There's a principle here that's seems to have been ignored - I think that's more annoying than the money really.

As always - thanks For any opinions and help - cheers chubby

[Guest]

Hi

 

Chris

Towards the bottom of the terms of survey it states

" THE REPORT IS PREPARED SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CLIENT TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED AND BY WHOM IT IS COMMISSIONED .. "

 

Bearing this in mind I cannot fathom out the YSDA saying its normal to discuss the results with with anyone else ?

Ultimately I cannot prove anything except that to prove the boat was reexamined there ought to be another slipway invoice from the boatyard with a slightly later date than 07/02 . If the seller doesn't have one then it means it has not been removed from the water .

 

I'll think about small claims court but I expect this to be hopeless and long winded .

Would a threat to do this really make him reconsider ?? Has anyone done this recently ? Any success ?

There's a principle here that's seems to have been ignored - I think that's more annoying than the money really.

As always - thanks For any opinions and help - cheers chubby

Me neither.

[luctor et emergo]

Another thing that begs the question, how did you decide to use this surveyor? Would I be widely of the mark, if I guess that he was recommended by the Vendor or boatyard?

[chubby]

Yes

 

They did suggest him . I have to say the boatyard seemed very good when I spoke with them on several occasions . I don't really think they are involved in the surveyor / vendor dealings but you never know . Also when I spoke with the surveyor prior to the survey all seemed well , we talked of the process , confirmed verbally that the info is for me alone so I was shocked when the vendor said " I spoke to the surveyor about the boat a few hours ago " on Thursday evening .

 

I'VE FOUND A TEMPORARY SOLUTION .

A few posts back the small claims court was suggested . So in order to take a degree of control of the situation I have called my bank to stop the processing of the surveyers cheque ( another tenner. ) From here I'll let him take me to the small claims court instead .

At least I won't be paying him for the time being

 

Cheers chubby