Survey disgrace

[MtB]

It's a murky area, but I think it will be hard to do anything much about this other than to sue him in the small claims court for return of your survey fee, if you can be bothered. This at worst will involve him wasting a shed load of his time defending your action and make him think twice in future, and at best you will get your money back! In addition, a complaint to his professional body might yield some support.

 

I also think it is time to name the surveyor in question, if you are sure of your facts. It unfair on any other boat buyers here NOT to.

 

MtB

[chubby]

Hi Mike

 

I understand what you're saying and youre right about naming the surveyor but I'm really reluctant . I'm happy to let people know privately by text for instance - my number =

07974 847704

Is this fair ?

I'd hate for this to happen to anyone else but cannot bring myself to name him publicly as I don't want to be seen as bitchy !

I'm open to persuasion if the weight of forum opinion says I ought to though ?

I've had lots of help on this fantastic forum so would state his name in the spirit of preventing others having to tolerate such practices.

Cheers

[wonderdust]

Although Foxes passed the surveyors details to you i would say that they would not be involved in anyway other than to arrange time date for lift out. They can be a bit grumpy at times but when we have needed anything done to our boat, survey, hull inspections etc we have have always asked them for recommendations and have never had any problems with the the people they have suggested.

[Richard10002]

Hi

 

Chris

Towards the bottom of the terms of survey it states

" THE REPORT IS PREPARED SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CLIENT TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED AND BY WHOM IT IS COMMISSIONED .. "

 

Bearing this in mind I cannot fathom out the YSDA saying its normal to discuss the results with with anyone else ?

Ultimately I cannot prove anything except that to prove the boat was reexamined there ought to be another slipway invoice from the boatyard with a slightly later date than 07/02 . If the seller doesn't have one then it means it has not been removed from the water .

 

I'll think about small claims court but I expect this to be hopeless and long winded .

Would a threat to do this really make him reconsider ?? Has anyone done this recently ? Any success ?

There's a principle here that's seems to have been ignored - I think that's more annoying than the money really.

As always - thanks For any opinions and help - cheers chubby

 

The clause is almost certainly to protect the surveyor from claims from anyone other than you, and not to preclude him from discussing it with others.

 

If you go to Court, in the absence of a clause in the contract which states the damages for breach, I believe the court will aim to recompense you for your loss. I think the answer to the question, "What have you lost Mr. Chubby?", is "Nothing, My Lord", in which case, that is what would be awarded, IMHO.

 

If you don't pay the survey fee, and the surveyor sues you, it would be my guess you would be ordered to pay up, plus costs. However, the surveyor may not sue, and may change his ways.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I've a fair bit of experience of the small claims system, and have been to court quite a few times as Plaintiff.

[chubby]

I dont think foxes had any thing to do with this .

I am confused about my stopping his cheque . I'm happy to give the surveyor some money but not his entire fee as I feel I've been on the receiving end of shoddy practice .

He gave me his word that the survey was for me alone in a phone call before I booked him. That's pretty straightforward to me .

I'm not deceitful or spiteful but don't understand how the vendor can be aware of the faults on his boat and state that he has the results on his advert and yet I'm to pay for it ?

[Teadaemon]

I can't really comment on another surveyor or a specific situation, but I'm happy to talk about what I (and most surveyors I know) do.

 

If I do a survey, I'm acting solely for the person who's paying my bill. They get any verbal report, and they get the written survey before anyone else. If they want me to talk to the vendor or their representative, or to use the survey report to negotiate the price or to get their deposit back, then that's their prerogative.

 

Having said that, I retain the copyright of the report. This means that if I want to sell another copy of it to somebody else (the vendor or another prospective buyer) then I can and will do so. As a matter of professional courtesy I would not do so before the original buyer had received their copy and had time to act on it's contents in one way or another.

 

If you're buying a boat that the seller claims has a recent survey report, then feel free to read it, but bear in mind that if it's inaccurate then you have absolutely no comeback against the surveyor, as you have no contractual relationship with them and their terms and conditions will clearly state that the report is for the person who's commissioned it and nobody else. Whilst in no way connected to the situation being discussed at the moment, I have also heard of less than honest sellers doctoring previous survey reports, or even writing their own and passing them off as independent surveys. (Note that if you have proof that somebody has done this then the police will probably be interested as it's fraud - the doctored or fake survey is a 'false instrument'.)

[Paul C]

I'd not worry too much anyway - a survey already done on a boat, by the seller, really isn't that much of a selling point.

[scrumpylurcher]

I think you may struggle to convince even a small court that what has happened to you has caused you a loss. The surveyor did give you the original survey and it is often the case that the purchaser asks the surveyor to speak to the vendor or broker to negotiate price adjustments. Although I believe you said no deposit had been paid, there are instances where a deposit is paid subject to survey and you need the surveyors confirmation to persuade the vendor to return the deposit. I think you have had a bad deal, whether or not it woul;d be considered enough to warrant non payment or part payment of the survey cost I somehow doubt.

Teadaemon has alredy stated that he as the surveyor retains the copyright of the report, this would make your argument in court rather difficult assuming your surveyor gave you the first report backed up by a written one.

[chubby]

Hi guys

 

Thanks for your advice . I'm going to put the issue to bed and just pay the surveyor and move on

 

Thanks for everyone's help

 

Cheers

[Rebotco]

Hi guys

 

Thanks for your advice . I'm going to put the issue to bed and just pay the surveyor and move on

 

Thanks for everyone's help

 

Cheers

 

Seems the wisest course. After all, you've got what you paid for - and he has saved you paying out for unexpected repairs.

Anyway, much more fun to get on with enjoying boating than worrying about court cases.

[Chris Pink]

Replied before reading the rest of the thread.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Chris Pink

[Ex- Member]

Hello

 

I've been receiving some very helpful advice on here as I'm looking to buy my first narrowboat so Thankyou to all who helped on a previous question " private sale advice ".

 

I had the boat surveyed and was not happy with the results and decided to not proceed.

However the vendor has been in contact with the surveyor and has the results of the report . He has even amended his ad on eBay to say so so that other potential buyers can save money .

It's called Mr Sweep -A 55 ft semi trad . it's also on apolloduck but I'm unsure if that. Ads been changed .

I've been I touch with the surveyor to tell him of this situation and that it's not acceptable . Infact i think my neigbours might even know im far from pleased ! So if anyone wants the name of this surveyor in case they are thinking of looking at this boat then leave a message on here with your number and I'llbe I touch .

The vendor bought it without a survey but now seems to have one for free !!

All part of the learning curve .... The search continues .

 

Chubby

 

 

Having read hrough this thread I really don't see what you'r complaining about. You requestted a survey and got one or will get one.

 

 

The informattion the surveyor gleans from that survey belongs to him and he's contracted to pass hi findings as he sees them on to you. If he can then sell that information on to someone else, that's entirely his perogative and not at all illegal. The information he gleans is not solely yours.

 

By stopping the cheque you will be in breach of contract and he then has more more cause to sue you than vice versa.

 

The guy done the job so bloody well pay him and stop bleating on and being a cheap skate. If you want to get involved with boats, i would prepare yourself for a hell of a lot more hassle than moaning about a surveyors fee.

[alan_fincher]

The informattion the surveyor gleans from that survey belongs to him and he's contracted to pass hi findings as he sees them on to you. If he can then sell that information on to someone else, that's entirely his perogative and not at all illegal. The information he gleans is not solely yours.

The last survey I had done says "this report is prepared solely for the above named client", so I'd be fairly pissed off to think I had paid for it, and he can then sell the same thing to someone else, based on no extra work done.

 

I don't think OP is "bleating" I think he has had the misfortune to run into people who at least have acted in a less than professional way, and in my view, what sounds like an unacceptable way.

 

Anybody contemplating a survey should perhaps PM the OP to make sure they are not engaging the same name.

 

Sorry, but this is shoddy.

 

That said, it is unfortunately probably not worh pursuing - just what they are relying on though.

[Ex- Member]

The last survey I had done says "this report is prepared solely for the above named client", so I'd be fairly pissed off to think I had paid for it, and he can then sell the same thing to someone else, based on no extra work done.

 

I don't think OP is "bleating" I think he has had the misfortune to run into people who at least have acted in a less than professional way, and in my view, what sounds like an unacceptable way.

 

Anybody contemplating a survey should perhaps PM the OP to make sure they are not engaging the same name.

 

Sorry, but this is shoddy.

 

That said, it is unfortunately probably not worh pursuing - just what they are relying on though.

 

 

 

Do you honestly think that a surveyor a surveying company will visit the boat the following day and undertake the same work for a second client even if not the vendor. At most he would probably have to check that nothing had changed since the last survey evan if say a day or couple of days ago, he would then basically copy the same report and publish it as taken on that day with any changes that may have occured.

 

It is ridiculous to assume that he would do another complete survey, or as a company send another surveyor uot to do all the same work again.

 

The simple get out clause for the surveyor is that by saying "this report is prepared solely for the above named client" is not untrue as it was related to the time of the report and the condition of the craft at that ime of he report for that client. If he indeed has done and charged for another survey then he simply has to date the survey for another day.

 

I can assure you somewhere in the small print there's a stipulation that surveyors can use information gleaned twice, they would be mad not to.

 

ETA

 

Also the phrase "this report is prepared solely for the above named client" Note the use of report so the report is prepared solely, not the work undertaken to glean the information for the report or the information its self.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Julynian

[wonderdust]

Yawn!

[alan_fincher]

Yawn!

I suggest if reading this is boring you that you simply stop reading it.

 

Simple, really!

[wonderdust]

What I find boring is that thread has now turned into a slanging match as usual

The op had thanked everyone for their advice and put it to bed, then you two turn up and kick off

Simple

Edited February 9, 2013 by wonderdust

[Grace and Favour]

What I find boring is that thread has now turned into a slanging match as usual

The op had thanked everyone for their advice and put it to bed, then you two turn up and kick off

Simple

 

 

Yawn

[Ex- Member]

What I find boring is that thread has now turned into a slanging match as usual

The op had thanked everyone for their advice and put it to bed, then you two turn up and kick off

Simple

 

Itt's your perogative to be bored, carry on don't mind me

[wonderdust]

Oh look another one turned up to add to their post count without actually having anything constructive to add

Edited February 9, 2013 by wonderdust

[scrumpylurcher]

Ummmmmmmm - Pot-------Kettle ?????

[wonderdust]

And an other

[FidoDido]

At the very least I'd let Foxes and Floods Ferry know that this particular surveyor is behaving in this manner. I'm sure they would want to reccomend good honest surveyors to their customers. I'll pm you, as I had reservations about a surveyor from that area too..

[chubby]

Hello

 

Just a brief last word before I do calli it a day . Firstly - Thankyou for everyone's comments and advice . Even the comments about stopping the surveyors cheque that made me think twice . I've paid the fee as agreed . Two wrongs don't make a right.

Simply put my understanding was that the info was for me . To be discussed only with me . Surveyor told me he could only provide a copy of the report to others if I gave my consent . These were his words - not my assumptions. The info was passed on , the seller stated that he had a written report that I'd paid for , then seemed to change his mind .

I pulled out of the sale because

A) the cost of purchase plus work was not worthwhile &

the " relationship" between.seller & surveyor seemed suspect and I believed the surveyors

Opinion was compromised - so I walked and was annoyed by the circumstances as I wanted yo buy the boat but alarm bells rang and I couldn't trust the surveyor .

 

JULYNIAN I'm not a cheapskate . Like most people I work very hard got what little I've got and when I do my work I'm entirely straight in my dealings . When I deal with others I think I'm entitled to receive the same . If a contract states " for the client only" then that's what I expect .

 

Anyway . Again thanks for any comments . Anyone who wants the names just pm or text me

 

Cheers , Chubby

[Roxy]

Sorry to hear of the outcome of your survey, but to be fair the owner does have 100% feedback

 

But if this was your doing ''Save yourself £500. Full 'out of water' inspection by marine surveyor'' which the said owner has posted on the advert then shame on him! But nice of you not to be so bitter about it which others and including me would be.

Learning curve yes and for me aswell