Terrible day for one poor bloke!

[RichardH]

I think there needs to be a move towards a DVLA V5 style process with associated documentation.

 

If a £20 change of ownership fee was made (or even run by CRT as a service covered by licence income) I believe it would give both buyers and sellers more confidence in their purchase.

[MartinC]

True, but good brokers have a reputation to protect so are likely to take reasonable steps to protect themselves. I guess most also carry some sort of insurance to cover the losses if despite their best efforts, a boat they sell turns out not to belong to the 'vendor'.

I sold our previous boat through a broker. He required to see the bill of sale for the original purchase of the boat and then checked the validity with the broker who had acted for the vendor.

[kevinl]

I sold our previous boat through a broker. He required to see the bill of sale for the original purchase of the boat and then checked the validity with the broker who had acted for the vendor.

What happens if you buy in a private sale as I did, from someone who in turn bought it in a private sale? As the boat had been on the marina for years and the guy I bought off was the chairman of the marina's owners club I was OK but I did wonder, same must apply to things like caravans, what happens there?

[ditchcrawler]

I think there needs to be a move towards a DVLA V5 style process with associated documentation.

 

If a £20 change of ownership fee was made (or even run by CRT as a service covered by licence income) I believe it would give both buyers and sellers more confidence in their purchase.

Cloned cars exist

[Graham Davis]

same must apply to things like caravans, what happens there?

 

Caravans have the CRIS system, where all new vans for the last 10 (?I think?) years have their chassis ID number recorded on a central data base, just like DVLA. Unfortunately it isn't compulsory for owners to register their details with CRIS, and there is a small charge for change of ownership.

[churchward]

Cloned cars exist

There have also been many scams involving forged V5 documents. There was a recent mass issue of V5s from Swansea.

[bowten]

I think there needs to be a move towards a DVLA V5 style process with associated documentation.

 

If a £20 change of ownership fee was made (or even run by CRT as a service covered by licence income) I believe it would give both buyers and sellers more confidence in their purchase.

Good idea.

[kevinl]

I think there needs to be a move towards a DVLA V5 style process with associated documentation.

 

If a £20 change of ownership fee was made (or even run by CRT as a service covered by licence income) I believe it would give both buyers and sellers more confidence in their purchase.

I vote we bring in a forum punishment for anyone who makes suggestions about how C&RT can find ways to bring in new charges. Aren't you giving them enough of your hard earned already? It'd start off at £20 then it'd be £50 then £50 a year then a fee to register a change of ownership, sky's the limit after all "we're a charity with limited resources" would be trotted out as the justification.

[Arthur Brown]

The whole issue with "V5 type forms" for boats is that too few boats have VIN numbers and plates, and it's too simple to change the name of a boat. There would first have to be a register of unique names and there do seem to be several names that are well used across the canal boat population.

 

While there is no "V5 type" system the broker or buyer's checks can begin to increase the chance of a legitimate transaction.

[Laurie Booth]

True, but never over estimate just how stupid some folk can be.

We had a shoplifter (caught on CCTV)in a shop I was working in and on the back of his jacket was the name of the firm he worked for!!

Didn't take the law long to catch him.

[Steilsteven]

I think that a proper registration system, similar to in the Netherlands, is long overdue.

I think it's totally crazy that people are ready to part with their hard earned money, ( sometimes in excess of £100,000 )without concrete

proof of ownership or that no mortgage is still outstanding.

 

Buying a vessel in NL involves the same process as buying a house, yes it costs money but the peace of mind is well worth it.

 

 

Keith

Edited February 3, 2013 by Steilsteven

[MtB]

The whole issue with "V5 type forms" for boats is that too few boats have VIN numbers and plates, and it's too simple to change the name of a boat. There would first have to be a register of unique names and there do seem to be several names that are well used across the canal boat population.

 

While there is no "V5 type" system the broker or buyer's checks can begin to increase the chance of a legitimate transaction.

 

Not so easy to change the BW Registration Number of a boat though, or is it? BW/CRT certainly associate a name and address with a BW Registration Number (it's who they send the licence reminder to) so we're only an ace way from having such a scheme already.

 

I've certainly called BW in the past when buying a boat and they've been happy to confirm whether or not the seller's name and address I've quoted matches their own records. Then simply verifying the ID of the seller is all that is needed, e.g. by visiting him at the land address confirmed by CRT, or sight of photo ID like a driving licence.

 

No doubt if a crim is planning a scam it is feasible to fool CRT into changing a boat registration name and address to something else, but that requires quite a high degree of commitment and forward planning on the part of the criminal, so checking seller ID then comparing with with CRT records when buying gives a very high level of protection, if not totally foolproof.

 

MtB

[MtB]

Buying a vessel in NL involves the same process as buying a house, yes it costs money but the peace of mind is well worth it.

 

That's a value judgement and it may be worth it to you, but it isn't to me, thanks!

 

I dunno what is costs to buy a house or boat in NL but here the legal costs of buying a house here generally run well into thousands of pounds due to the compulsory involvement of professionals 'protecting' buyers' and sellers' interests. Is this what you are proposing?

 

I'd rather not be bulldozed into employing professionals to carry out a boat purchase transaction I'm perfectly capable of doing myself, at no cost. Especially as my boats never cost anything like the £100,000 you mention as justification

 

MtB

[ditchcrawler]

The whole issue with "V5 type forms" for boats is that too few boats have VIN numbers and plates, and it's too simple to change the name of a boat. There would first have to be a register of unique names and there do seem to be several names that are well used across the canal boat population.

 

While there is no "V5 type" system the broker or buyer's checks can begin to increase the chance of a legitimate transaction.

So, how many boats get stolen every year?

The reason cars keepers (not owners) are registered is so the government can send them bills, not to stop people steeling and selling them on.

[Laurie Booth]

That's a value judgement and it may be worth it to you, but it isn't to me, thanks!

 

I dunno what is costs to buy a house or boat in NL but here the legal costs of buying a house here generally run well into thousands of pounds due to the compulsory involvement of professionals 'protecting' buyers' and sellers' interests. Is this what you are proposing?

 

I'd rather not be bulldozed into employing professionals to carry out a boat purchase transaction I'm perfectly capable of doing myself, at no cost. Especially as my boats never cost anything like the £100,000 you mention as justification

 

MtB

You can buy a house in the UK without the need of solicitors. You can just do it yourself, same with funerals.

[ditchcrawler]

That's a value judgement and it may be worth it to you, but it isn't to me, thanks!

 

I dunno what is costs to buy a house or boat in NL but here the legal costs of buying a house here generally run well into thousands of pounds due to the compulsory involvement of professionals 'protecting' buyers' and sellers' interests. Is this what you are proposing?

 

I'd rather not be bulldozed into employing professionals to carry out a boat purchase transaction I'm perfectly capable of doing myself, at no cost. Especially as my boats never cost anything like the £100,000 you mention as justification

 

MtB

I sold a house last week for about £125000 and the cost was £409 + VAT I don't know how much it cost the buyer.

[matty40s]

You can buy a house in the UK without the need of solicitors. You can just do it yourself, same with funerals.

dig my own grave......that brings us full circle back Mr Welch.....

[Laurie Booth]

dig my own grave......that brings us full circle back Mr Welch.....

A friend of mine buried her husband in her garden, all legal by the way.

[luctor et emergo]

I was going to mention MtB's point. If a boat cost in excess of €100.000 then perhaps that is worth it. But what if a boat is only a few thousend. The cost of the vultures solicitors may be more than the boats' price. You just need to be diligent. Don't just hand over all your money on the first meeting, without any checks. Did this person buy the boat 'on the towpath'?

[nb Innisfree]

A friend of mine buried her husband in her garden, all legal by the way.

 

Ah but was he dead?

[Uncle Arthur]

Maybe not initially...

[Laurie Booth]

Ah but was he dead?

Is now

[MtB]

I sold a house last week for about £125000 and the cost was £409 + VAT I don't know how much it cost the buyer.

 

Ok point taken, not thousands.

 

But you seem to be saying if you sold your boat for £125k, you'd be happy to be compelled to over £490.80 to a solicitor to handle the sale for you. Yes?

 

 

MtB

 

P.S. And of course ANOTHER £490.80 to pay for the purchase of the boat you might buy to replace the one you sold...

[ditchcrawler]

Ok point taken, not thousands.

 

But you seem to be saying if you sold your boat for £125k, you'd be happy to be compelled to over £490.80 to a solicitor to handle the sale for you. Yes?

 

 

MtB

Not me, read my other posts. Just like boaters having licenses will stop accidents, BSC will stop boat fires, contracts will stop people losing money when builders go bust.

I just happened to have up to date cost of house sale

[MtB]

Not me, read my other posts. Just like boaters having licenses will stop accidents, BSC will stop boat fires, contracts will stop people losing money when builders go bust.

I just happened to have up to date cost of house sale

 

Ah I see. But now you seem to be asking me to read the thread properly before answering. C'mon, be reasonable!!

 

 

MtB