Boaters' Voices

[PiRSqwared]

Hello,

Surprised this hasn't popped up previously...a vid about life on the KandA...haven't seen it all yet as I'm on a dongle til I visit OH tonight.

 

Linky dinky

[alan_fincher]

Hello,

Surprised this hasn't popped up previously...a vid about life on the KandA...haven't seen it all yet as I'm on a dongle til I visit OH tonight.

 

Linky dinky

I thought it had - if not I've seen it from somewhere else.

 

Features "Panda" Smith from the National Bargee Travellers Assosciation, so whilst it is not a badly put together bit of film, not everybody is going to be in total agreement with it, I'm already predicting!

[Ray T]

Well put together film , but...............

 

Going to be contentious here, but some of them seem to want to be continuous moorers without having to pay mooring fees.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Ray T

[PiRSqwared]

I thought it had - if not I've seen it from somewhere else.

 

Features "Panda" Smith from the National Bargee Travellers Assosciation, so whilst it is not a badly put together bit of film, not everybody is going to be in total agreement with it, I'm already predicting!

 

Ladbrokes were giving odds of 1-5 that Dave would be the first to respond for that very reason!!

[Black Ibis]

Lovely video... but can't say I agree with all the views put forward!

Edited December 18, 2012 by Black Ibis

[mrsmelly]

Hello,

Surprised this hasn't popped up previously...a vid about life on the KandA...haven't seen it all yet as I'm on a dongle til I visit OH tonight.

 

Linky dinky

 

Seem like a very nice bunch of mainly continuous moorers. As would be expected their lives were blighted by cyclists but the little lad at 2 and a half years of age is already it seems getting to grips with that.

 

Tim

[churchward]

I thought it had - if not I've seen it from somewhere else.

 

Features "Panda" Smith from the National Bargee Travellers Assosciation, so whilst it is not a badly put together bit of film, not everybody is going to be in total agreement with it, I'm already predicting!

Any program/video promoting a particular point of view is not going to hit the spot for everyone.

 

I watched it all and quite liked it. The people seemed genuine and mostly reasonable in terms of their expectations and wishes. I think a least two of them said it was their choice they were living this way and didn't seem to be expecting the world to change around them. I don't think they were all CCer live aboards the single older women was on a mooring I think.

 

It is good that the wider community facilities make some allowances for the boater lifestyle.

 

In the end though I am not sure that all of them are CCing and I can't get round the view that if you want to CC then please go ahead but if you need to stop in one place, get a mooring.

 

I can fully understand the wish to live around there though being a native born son of North Wiltshire and brought up around Swindon, Calne, Devizes, Seend and the like. It's a lovely part of the country.

[grey wolf]

I enjoyed that film.Not much in the way of controversial statements

[Old git]

Hello,

Surprised this hasn't popped up previously...a vid about life on the KandA...haven't seen it all yet as I'm on a dongle til I visit OH tonight.

 

Linky dinky

 

Interesting,

BUT and its a big one , 550+people on 266 boats all tied up on the towpath taking up the favourite and most accessable mooring spots that are best and probably near to waterpoints etc will be over 3.5kilometers of moored boats easily, add the 90plus hire boats in and the far end of the K&A will be a mooring hell.

If you want to live aboard pay for an offside bloody mooring then argue about residential use, As much as I hate CART they are a waterways charity not a housing association !, Continuous cruising is just that not leap frog back and forth just because you want to live in an area, I want a new boat but cant afford it, its tough its called life. They are more like continuous Moorers...so they can bloody well pay for the privilege like the rest of us and find an offside or marina mooring, which with a bit of sense would get you electricity, and the savings on generator petrol and associated costs would pay a chunk of that cost and stop the rubbish and sanitation problem most of us have sorted by being sensible.

Rant over for now..........until stirred up again by some continuous moorer no doubt.

 

Old Git

[Don Diggler]

Interesting,

BUT and its a big one , 550+people on 266 boats all tied up on the towpath taking up the favourite and most accessable mooring spots that are best and probably near to waterpoints etc will be over 3.5kilometers of moored boats easily, add the 90plus hire boats in and the far end of the K&A will be a mooring hell.

If you want to live aboard pay for an offside bloody mooring then argue about residential use, As much as I hate CART they are a waterways charity not a housing association !, Continuous cruising is just that not leap frog back and forth just because you want to live in an area, I want a new boat but cant afford it, its tough its called life. They are more like continuous Moorers...so they can bloody well pay for the privilege like the rest of us and find an offside or marina mooring, which with a bit of sense would get you electricity, and the savings on generator petrol and associated costs would pay a chunk of that cost and stop the rubbish and sanitation problem most of us have sorted by being sensible.

Rant over for now..........until stirred up again by some continuous moorer no doubt.

 

Old Git

 

 

seasons greetings!!!

 

I thought it a really great short film looking at some aspects of boating life

 

perhaps some don't move that far or often enough but most do and its particularly rare to find someone moored on a water or service point longer than is necessary.

 

The liveaboard community add a great deal with the variety of style types of vessels on the waterways and care for each other, the environment, the canals and other users.

 

Many simply can not afford marina charges any more than they can afford houses and rather than relying on the welfare state to provide most have found and are making their own way while contributing to society. Maybe not mainstream but people make a lot of sacrifices to live a life they enjoy but it is by no means an easy or soft option.

 

Perhaps now we have passed the end of the world we can start to think more harmoniously!!!

[Starcoaster]

Yeah, holding forth with terms like 'most of us' and 'you lot' always ends well.

 

Also, why do some people seem to think that everyone who lives aboard should live in fully serviced marinas out of the way?! If you want an offline mooring, fill yer boots. But I don't see why anyone else should have to take one just because it suits you. Online moorings, CC'ing, all also viable options.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Starcoaster

[Wanted]

Charlotte and I used to live with Panda, agree with her or not she bloody well stands up for what she believes in and is really kind, that's good enough for me

[DeanS]

An honest question.

How many of you living in marinas on the K&A (and other places) are paying council tax?

The cost of a marina + council tax is about £250 a month.

If someone lives on a boat, and cant afford that, then let them live wherever they like on their boat as long as they aren't causing too much harm.

 

I LOVED the traveller dude in that video.........

 

Also bear in mind that many people who DO work, dont really know if their job is secure....and prefer not to sign marina contracts...

Often the cost of a marina is based on services (such as laundry, toilets etc), which some boaters might not want.

 

In my 2 small years of being on a boat, I have NEVER had to wait at any services spot because someone is moored up there...but there are some of you on here that perhaps have had that experience, and have a right to moan

[Donald Gilchrist]

A lot of marinas dont like livaboards and there is not alot 'off side morings', so where do you go? Take away this kind of boater and your left with a muddy ditch for cyclests to fall in.

Good film, like the area [some of childhood in north somerset coalfield] probably wont get the chance to boat there though.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Donald Gilchrist

[Jerra]

Take away this kind of boater and your left with a muddy ditch for cyclests to fall in.

 

 

Gee Thanks! So the rest of the boating world who aren't livaboards add nothing to the canals and are invisible,?

 

I don't think so.

[Tuscan]

A lot of marinas dont like livaboards and there is not alot 'off side morings', so where do you go? Take away this kind of boater and your left with a muddy ditch for cyclests to fall in.

Good film, like the area [some of childhood in north somerset coalfield] probably wont get the chance to boat there though.

 

 

 

Some would say that you could conform to the terms of your license and move around. Or move off the canal so more of us get a chance to moor on the side of the muddy ditch as an act of kindness to stop the unsuspecting cyclist falling in.

[dmr]

Gee Thanks! So the rest of the boating world who aren't livaboards add nothing to the canals and are invisible,?

 

I don't think so.

 

Well I do know so!!!

I have just spent best part of two weeks moored in Bradford on Avon and if not for the liveaboards then the canal would indeed be an empty ditch. I am sure that in the summer school holidays the canal will once again be bursting with leisure boaters and hire boaters, but in the winter they are nowhere to be seen.

A canal needs boats and the liveaboards are there all year round, not just when the sun shines.

They also drink beer so that your favourite pub does not go bankrupt over the winter!

And if you would like to visit there is a lot of space on the visitor moorings!!!!

 

(I fully accept there are some problems but if all the liveaboards are forced off the water the canal will become a very sad place)

 

 

 

........Dave

[Donald Gilchrist]

Gee Thanks! So the rest of the boating world who aren't livaboards add nothing to the canals and are invisible,?

 

I don't think so.

Where are you moving to this week? Most of the boats hear only get out for a few weeks a year, for most of the year it is only the livaboards that live on the cut that remind you that this ditch was built for boats.

[Jerra]

Well I do know so!!!

I have just spent best part of two weeks moored in Bradford on Avon and if not for the liveaboards then the canal would indeed be an empty ditch.

 

But only for part of the year. Many towns in my part of the world are very quiet (nearly deserted) in winter but vibrant enough for the rest of the year. I don't feel you can judge a canal (or town) on what it is like ofr a few months against the majority of the year.

 

I am sure that in the summer school holidays the canal will once again be bursting with leisure boaters and hire boaters, but in the winter they are nowhere to be seen.

Not really surprising many of the threads on the forum show livaboards going and mooring (sometimes perish the thought in a marina) for the winter.

A canal needs boats and the liveaboards are there all year round, not just when the sun shines.

They also drink beer so that your favourite pub does not go bankrupt over the winter!

I can safely say no livaboard has done anything to keep my favourite pub in business the nearest livabourd must be at least 60 miles away. However there are many pubs round here kept going not by the residents of the are but the visiters (in the case of the canals - hirerers).

 

And if you would like to visit there is a lot of space on the visitor moorings!!!!

 

(I fully accept there are some problems but if all the liveaboards are forced off the water the canal will become a very sad place)

 

The problem as I see it is there is no legal (IMO) way you can livaboard and tie yourself to an area for work or school. Bona fide navigation as I interpret it (and have better minds than mine interpreted it for me) means sincerely or without intent to decieve navigating which is the passage from place to place. Shuttling around an area so that you are within striking distance of your work/schools isn't sincerely moving from place to place.

 

Preventing bridge hopping continuos mooring or what ever you care to call it would not force all livaboards off the canals. There are as far as I can see a large number who continuosly cruise i.e. move from place to place (not trying to stay in one area. For those who want to continuosly moor there are two or three options.

 

1. Get a mooring

2. Get the law/regulations changed so that there is some category which allows shuffling around a restricted area ( I personally doubt this is likely to happen as CRT are not in the housing game).

3. Continue to shufftle about pretending you are following Bona fide navigation and hope nobody objects.

 

However to return to your first point to suggest that just because visiters reduce for a few months of the year the canal is a ditch for cyclists to fall into is IMO a wild sweeping statement. If the visitors/fine weather boater left the canals it is doubtful there would be a canal system for livaboards to live on (or they would face hugely increased costs forcing many off the canal).

 

Your suggestion that because the number of people there is reduced during winter is like suggesting Keswick is a wild windswept open moor after the tourists have left which it clearly isn't.

 

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Where are you moving to this week? Most of the boats hear only get out for a few weeks a year, for most of the year it is only the livaboards that live on the cut that remind you that this ditch was built for boats.

 

So all those boats that I cruise past on my limited times on the canals (on one occaision this year 3/4 hour at tick over) suddenly disappear and aren't there toremind us that the canals are for boats?

 

I would suggest there is little or no difference between a boat tied updeside the canal which hasn't been used since September and one where the owner is out at work.

 

Yes there will be a lot of boats in marinas during the winter but reading the threads a good number of continuos cruisers (alsoknown as livaboards) head for marinas for the worst part of the year. You seem to suggest that if I were to ride along a towpath I could go for days with out seeing a tied up boat that isn't a livaboard which I find a very unrealistic proposition from my own experiences.

 

With reguard to my moving I don't find bricks and mortar move terribly well but were I in a position to be on the canals as livaboard I would either continuosly cruise (in the true sense of Bona fide navigation or have a mooring) and I doubt I would be on an empty ditch with no sign of boats other than livaboards. I have passed miles of moorings beside framers fields where the boats will still be there and as I said earlier indistinguishable from the livaboard who is out at work. (I have deliberatley refrained from brining in predjudice often quoted about the tow path and the boat roof as I do not believe it to be true).

[Ange]

SNIP a good number of continuos cruisers (alsoknown as livaboards) SNIP

 

Sorry I have to pick you up on this bit.

 

Not all liveaboards are continuous cruisers, I'm sure you're aware of that.

 

Not all continuous cruisers are liveaboards. There are many boats licenced without a home mooring whose owners do not live on their boats, but visit them periodically to move them. Or not as the case may be.

 

One of the common misperceptions on the forum is that all boats without a home mooring that overstay are inhabited by liveaboards. We come across many boats without a home mooring which are clearly uninhabited.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Ange

[wannabe]

Well I do know so!!!

I have just spent best part of two weeks moored in Bradford on Avon and if not for the liveaboards then the canal would indeed be an empty ditch. I am sure that in the summer school holidays the canal will once again be bursting with leisure boaters and hire boaters, but in the winter they are nowhere to be seen.

A canal needs boats and the liveaboards are there all year round, not just when the sun shines.

They also drink beer so that your favourite pub does not go bankrupt over the winter!

And if you would like to visit there is a lot of space on the visitor moorings!!!!

 

(I fully accept there are some problems but if all the liveaboards are forced off the water the canal will become a very sad place)

 

 

 

........Dave

 

Sorry, but, I refuse to accept that only live a boards contribute to the canal system.

Like everything else in life it takes all sorts to make things work.

Let'snot make this an us and them argument

Everyone loses when that happens

[Ange]

 

Let'snot make this an us and them argument

Everyone loses when that happens

 

Have a greenie for that sentiment.

[Donald Gilchrist]

But only for part of the year. Many towns in my part of the world are very quiet (nearly deserted) in winter but vibrant enough for the rest of the year. I don't feel you can judge a canal (or town) on what it is like ofr a few months against the majority of the year.

 

 

Not really surprising many of the threads on the forum show livaboards going and mooring (sometimes perish the thought in a marina) for the winter.

 

I can safely say no livaboard has done anything to keep my favourite pub in business the nearest livabourd must be at least 60 miles away. However there are many pubs round here kept going not by the residents of the are but the visiters (in the case of the canals - hirerers).

 

 

 

The problem as I see it is there is no legal (IMO) way you can livaboard and tie yourself to an area for work or school. Bona fide navigation as I interpret it (and have better minds than mine interpreted it for me) means sincerely or without intent to decieve navigating which is the passage from place to place. Shuttling around an area so that you are within striking distance of your work/schools isn't sincerely moving from place to place.

 

Preventing bridge hopping continuos mooring or what ever you care to call it would not force all livaboards off the canals. There are as far as I can see a large number who continuosly cruise i.e. move from place to place (not trying to stay in one area. For those who want to continuosly moor there are two or three options.

 

1. Get a mooring

2. Get the law/regulations changed so that there is some category which allows shuffling around a restricted area ( I personally doubt this is likely to happen as CRT are not in the housing game).

3. Continue to shufftle about pretending you are following Bona fide navigation and hope nobody objects.

 

However to return to your first point to suggest that just because visiters reduce for a few months of the year the canal is a ditch for cyclists to fall into is IMO a wild sweeping statement. If the visitors/fine weather boater left the canals it is doubtful there would be a canal system for livaboards to live on (or they would face hugely increased costs forcing many off the canal).

 

Your suggestion that because the number of people there is reduced during winter is like suggesting Keswick is a wild windswept open moor after the tourists have left which it clearly isn't.

 

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

 

 

 

So all those boats that I cruise past on my limited times on the canals (on one occaision this year 3/4 hour at tick over) suddenly disappear and aren't there toremind us that the canals are for boats?

 

I would suggest there is little or no difference between a boat tied updeside the canal which hasn't been used since September and one where the owner is out at work.

 

Yes there will be a lot of boats in marinas during the winter but reading the threads a good number of continuos cruisers (alsoknown as livaboards) head for marinas for the worst part of the year. You seem to suggest that if I were to ride along a towpath I could go for days with out seeing a tied up boat that isn't a livaboard which I find a very unrealistic proposition from my own experiences.

 

With reguard to my moving I don't find bricks and mortar move terribly well but were I in a position to be on the canals as livaboard I would either continuosly cruise (in the true sense of Bona fide navigation or have a mooring) and I doubt I would be on an empty ditch with no sign of boats other than livaboards. I have passed miles of moorings beside framers fields where the boats will still be there and as I said earlier indistinguishable from the livaboard who is out at work. (I have deliberatley refrained from brining in predjudice often quoted about the tow path and the boat roof as I do not believe it to be true).

What are you getting angree about, none of the people in the film said anything against people in houses and nothing against people who can only use there boats in sumer. I live on my boat and would love to be able to live like these people but choose not to, IE one of the people taking up the few 'live on' moorings avalable.How many of the moorings beside farmers fields are avalabe? One last thing, how can you not tell a livaboard from a holaday boat? Even if they are at work, or away for christmas.

[DaveC]

An honest question.

How many of you living in marinas on the K&A (and other places) are paying council tax?

The cost of a marina + council tax is about £250 a month.

 

Devizes Marina has only seven residential moorings. I believe the cost for each is in the region of £5000 plus per year. Council tax will add another £1000 or so to this making c£6000 per year, so not £250 a month but more like double that figure!

 

Dave

[DeanS]

Devizes Marina has only seven residential moorings. I believe the cost for each is in the region of £5000 plus per year. Council tax will add another £1000 or so to this making c£6000 per year, so not £250 a month but more like double that figure!

 

Dave

 

 

so if for some reason I had to move south, for job purposes perhaps....I wouldnt be able to afford to stay in a marina, and I would have to try and CC up and down the same stretch, while TRYING to keep within the rules, (moving between a set of elsan and water points) ...which is exactly what those boaters seem to be trying to do. It's not their fault the cost of marinas and council tax in the south has risen to disproportionate levels to accommodate the demand for those more well off folk who need "safe storage" for their "often unused" "investments", causing some less well off liveaboards to perhaps feel "misunderstood, unwanted, and persecuted"