CO poisoning

[blackrose]

If you believe that then carry on.

 

Well, you said the gauge should always read zero, and then when several knowledgeable people contradicted that, you just said "I give up!"

 

Yes, I do believe you are wrong because those who are right are generally able to explain themselves.

 

Migraines can last a long time and the symptoms can vary from one person to another and change through the course of the migraine too. Different people have different triggers for migraine.

 

When I get a migraine I can't stand light and I know one of the things that trigger mine is low level sunlight - especially if it is flickering - typically if I am driving down a country road in spring or autumn when the sun is behind a hedge at the side of me and the sun flickers into the corner of my eyes.

 

Dave occasionally gets migraine and he can focus visually. We don't know what causes it in him. Some people find some food stuff is a trigger.

 

Most people of a "certain age" who get migraines will have had them a few times in their lives already and have probably started to work out what their "trigger" is. If you have never experienced an episode like this before or anything like it then while it could be a migraine it could equally be something else. Keep a diary of how you feel through the day /night and along with it keep a record of what you have been doing, where you have been and when/what you have eaten and drunk.

It is entirely possible that it could be a migraine but they are notoriously difficult to diagnose and without wishing to cast aspersions on the ability of the doctor you saw it has been known for a doctor faced with a case he could not diagnose to simply blame migraine.

 

That new CO meter will at least help you to rule out that possibility but have a good think if there is anything else that has changed in your life that could have triggered it and if you take another turn for the worse get yourself back to A&E pretty quick just in case

 

I would also say that dust build up in the sinuses could be a problem. Try using one of the Sudafed nasal sprays for congestion. if you get some immediate relief that would be an indication that sinuses are to blame

 

I hope you are feeling a lot better soon.

 

Thanks.

 

 

In my case very much connected with sinuses and dust definitely causes problems - that is why I have a great excuse for not dusting Do not use any nasal spray for prolonged periods, unless medically advised - it aggravates the problem.

 

 

I haven't hoovered for ages. Perhaps I'll give it a go this weekend.

 

A couple of things - first don't rely on a single detector, two, at different locations is far better, As others have said, the one in the bedroom should be just above pillow height, close to the bed, not in the pat of draughts which would probably cause false readings.

Second, carbon monoxide will clear from the blood over a few hours, so did you feel better after a day at work? (Second thoughts, that's a silly question - who feels better after a day at work...)

 

The toxicity levels for CO cover a wide band, depending on the level, duration and a myriad of other factors Wiki bits

 

No, I went for a drink last night with a friend and had a stuttering episode. I hadn't had the fire on the boat all day. I don't think it can be CO. I got off the motorbike and could feel my right arm going numb. When I was talking to my friend as soon as the words left my mouth I couldn't remember whether I'd actually said them, or what I'd said. It's a horrible feeling.

Edited December 8, 2012 by blackrose

[JDR]

There are only a finite amount of things on a boat to suspect: The stove, if no visible cracks would a smoke bomb in the firebox show up any leaks? Redo all joints with fresh cement/high temp (1200c) silicon and replace rope? Cooker: Blue flame on all hobs/grill/oven? Boiler/water heater: blue flame on pilot light? Once those checks have been carried out I don't see what else you could reasonably do to eliminate CO as a risk apart from buying a couple of new alarms and monitoring them closely.

[blackrose]

There are only a finite amount of things on a boat to suspect: The stove, if no visible cracks would a smoke bomb in the firebox show up any leaks? Redo all joints with fresh cement/high temp (1200c) silicon and replace rope? Cooker: Blue flame on all hobs/grill/oven? Boiler/water heater: blue flame on pilot light? Once those checks have been carried out I don't see what else you could reasonably do to eliminate CO as a risk apart from buying a couple of new alarms and monitoring them closely.

 

I will do those things this weekend.

[ditchcrawler]

 

No, I went for a drink last night with a friend and had a stuttering episode. I hadn't had the fire on the boat all day. I don't think it can be CO. I got off the motorbike and could feel my right arm going numb. When I was talking to my friend as soon as the words left my mouth I couldn't remember whether I'd actually said them, or what I'd said. It's a horrible feeling.

Get your self back off to the doctors and explain your symptoms again. Have you been to your GP ?

[Guest]

Get your self back off to the doctors and explain your symptoms again. Have you been to your GP ?

 

Definitely agree with this - It's unlikely to be CO poisoning and speculation as to what it could be is pointless - you need to see a doctor.

[MtB]

Don't forget a gas hob produces CO in spades when you put a cold pan on a lit gas ring. The chilling of the flame causes incomplete combustion = CO. Nothing you can do to stop this other than cook another way.

 

This is why CO detectors don't just sound the alarm immediately they record a high CO, and also why the installation instructions usually specify minimum distance and height from a cooker.

 

And to answer another point raised earlier in the thread, CO is almost the exact same density as air. It tends to rise only because it tends to be warm/hot, as it originates from a flame!

 

MtB

 

P.S. And yes I agree with TDH. Get to see a doctor asap. The symptoms you describe are nothing like those we are told to look for in suspected CO victims.

[blackrose]

Get your self back off to the doctors and explain your symptoms again. Have you been to your GP ?

 

I registered at that the GP on Thursday so I can't get an appointment until next week. I went to a NHS walk in centre in Slough on Thursday but the doctor said he couldn't really do anything for me and I need to register with my GP and get my records. I got a phone call from Ascot stroke centre and I'm going there all day for some tests on Monday.

Edited December 8, 2012 by blackrose

[gary955]

We have two. A battery jobby from wickes and a Marine care dual watch which is wired in to the boats 12 volt system. I am not paranoid but two sources of different leccy makes sense to me.

 

Tim

Two battery powered ones would be two sources of different leccy!

[bizzard]

I think i'd still check out the electrical field thing that I mentioned earlier. It was a big issue a few years ago causing similar symptoms ''on the news ect'' but seems to have got forgotten again. Plus folk are surrounding themselves with more and more electrical Gizmos these days some of which are high powered, it can't be good. It can't be good lolling over computers for long periods either for this reason never mind the eye strain. For these reasons i'm shutting down now to do the washing up, save electricity and to help minimize brain and eye damage and so help to preserve these important organs and make em last longer.

Get well Mike.

Edited December 8, 2012 by bizzard

[bottle]

The reading should be 0 not anything else, 16 ppm is wrong, open some windows.

 

 

Well, you said the gauge should always read zero, and then when several knowledgeable people contradicted that, you just said "I give up!"

 

Yes, I do believe you are wrong because those who are right are generally able to explain themselves.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

<<<<<SNIP

 

I stand by my post (quoted above) any reading above 0 needs investigating, if you are happy to have a reading of 16ppm, even for a short time then carry on.

 

You can ignore this, if you so wish, as I will not be discussing it any further.

[Guest]

You can ignore this, if you so wish, as I will not be discussing it any further.

 

Well I'm afraid I also can't tally your comment with the instruction manual that came with my CO detector nor the comment in MTB's post - #56, quote.

 

Don't forget a gas hob produces CO in spades when you put a cold pan on a lit gas ring. The chilling of the flame causes incomplete combustion = CO. Nothing you can do to stop this other than cook another way.

 

This is why CO detectors don't just sound the alarm immediately they record a high CO, and also why the installation instructions usually specify minimum distance and height from a cooker.

 

Of course a gas free boat (which IIRC yours is Keith) may be a different kettle of fish, but neither Mike's nor mine is, so a reading of constant zero is never going to happen and you could become demented chasing around 'investigating' a perceived issue that doesn't actually exist.

[bizzard]

Sounds like you lot would be safer and better of with a Canary.

[blackrose]

I stand by my post (quoted above) any reading above 0 needs investigating, if you are happy to have a reading of 16ppm, even for a short time then carry on.

 

You can ignore this, if you so wish, as I will not be discussing it any further.

 

I stand my post too.

 

What makes you think it's been ignored? I brought up the subject, it's been investigated and the gauge was reset 24 hours ago. It's still reading 0.

 

It obviously went up to 16ppm at some point - probably with the stove doors open while I was refueling. If anyone did the same thing they would find their CO gauge registered. If it doesn't register then there's something wrong with your meter. If you are happy with a meter that always reads zero then carry on. At least I know mine works.

 

According to Kidde "The maximum allowable concentration for continuous exposure for healthy adults in any 8-hour period, according to HSE* is 50ppm."

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Kidde/KD9C05_Manual.pdf (page 14)

 

Now who should I believe, the HSE or some bloke called Keith...?

Edited December 8, 2012 by blackrose

[by'eck]

Yes, I used to have 2 but one died a while ago. I'll go and get another from Screwfix today.

It was probably poisoned by carbon monoxide

 

My mum used to suffer from migraine, all coloured light before her eyes. This came on at a wedding reception once and we found the cure. I got her a single shot of whiskey, she knocked it back and said the migraine just lifted immediately, gone!. From then on she always kept a bottle indoors for that purpose and it always worked. But i believe there are different types of migraine so the whiskey thing may not work in your case.

Just carry a range of whiskey's - suggest single malts

[Phil Ambrose]

It could be electrical fields all buzzing around in the boat and can't get out,''all trapped in a metal box like''.

I know a couple of people that suffer from headaches that live on boats with masses of high powered electrical stuff running for most of the time, their boats are always riddled and zapped with electrolosis too when they dock them. So if it does that to their hulls whats it doing to their brains, they must be like sponges now and there are definite signs that they're slowly being transformed into gibbering idiots. I've mentioned my views on this to them but they just call me the gibbering idiot, ho hum.

Try turning all your electrics off for a bit Mike. Unplug it all, the lot.

There was a program on Telly once about how people were suffering from these headaches that lived near electricity pylons and grid cables plus what they had on at home.

Hope this helps.

 

This sort of ties in with "Sick Building Syndrome" at one time this was poo-pooed but now is a known factor in the ill health of people working in large office blocks surrounded by pooters etc .

 

Phil

[GUMPY]

Tin foil hats come in very useful in the case of to much emf

[bizzard]

Or an sacrificial anode bolted to the head and not a Duff one. One of these could be cast in the shape of what I call ''Insect head'' shaped streamlined cycling crash helmets, so it wouldn't look stupid, well no more stupid looking anyway. The accompanying adornment that is usually worn with these insect helmets is of course ''The blue or orange coloured chrome wrap around sunglasses'' ''shades so one would look very trendy.

Edited December 8, 2012 by bizzard

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Don't forget a gas hob produces CO in spades when you put a cold pan on a lit gas ring. The chilling of the flame causes incomplete combustion = CO. Nothing you can do to stop this other than cook another way.

 

This is why CO detectors don't just sound the alarm immediately they record a high CO, and also why the installation instructions usually specify minimum distance and height from a cooker.

 

And to answer another point raised earlier in the thread, CO is almost the exact same density as air. It tends to rise only because it tends to be warm/hot, as it originates from a flame!

 

MtB

 

P.S. And yes I agree with TDH. Get to see a doctor asap. The symptoms you describe are nothing like those we are told to look for in suspected CO victims.

 

Blackrose, best of luck with the appointments, hope you get sorted

 

CO alarms are usually very reliable these days. Any reading should be zero. MtB has offered some good points there.

 

There are some alarms that differentiate between background and peak on their readouts. All alarms sense on background and peak in the way already described in earlier posts.

 

While not fully-conclusive, more research is coming through showing that long-term exposure to even relatively low-levels of CO can have affects on cognitive functions. Certainly exposure to high-peak level can have long-term health effects BMJ clicky

 

Our advice on placing CO alarms is here CO ALARM LINKY

 

Hope this helps the conversation.

Rob

[MtB]

I stand by my post (quoted above) any reading above 0 needs investigating, if you are happy to have a reading of 16ppm, even for a short time then carry on.

 

You can ignore this, if you so wish, as I will not be discussing it any further.

 

Excellent flounce!

 

 

MtB

[Guest]

Blackrose, best of luck with the appointments, hope you get sorted

 

CO alarms are usually very reliable these days. Any reading should be zero. MtB has offered some good points there.

 

There are some alarms that differentiate between background and peak on their readouts. All alarms sense on background and peak in the way already described in earlier posts.

 

While not fully-conclusive, more research is coming through showing that long-term exposure to even relatively low-levels of CO can have affects on cognitive functions. Certainly exposure to high-peak level can have long-term health effects BMJ clicky

 

Our advice on placing CO alarms is here CO ALARM LINKY

 

Hope this helps the conversation.

Rob

 

Rob - I too googled the BMJ article and was considering quoting it but it is 10 years out of date

 

Accepted 10 April 2002

[onionbargee]

Is a CO alarm mandatory on the BSS Rob ?

 

If not why not ?

[MtB]

Is a CO alarm mandatory on the BSS Rob ?

 

If not why not ?

 

No (answering for Rob )

 

Because they encourage dependency. A BAD thing.

 

Quote from a narrowboater customer: "I have decided not to get my gas appliances serviced any more. I have a CO detector instead."

 

ARRRGGGGGJHHHH!!!

[magpie patrick]

It might be stress, but the NHS Direct woman thought I was having a stroke last Sunday because I wasn't making much sense and she called me an ambulance. I had to get across the river in the bloody dinghy with the river in full flood. The ambulance bloke said he thought I'd had a stroke too, but after a brain scan the doctor said he thought it may be migrane and not a stroke.

 

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Stroke_and_migraine

 

I never realised a migraine could make you stutter? I couldn't talk properly to the boss on Wednesday which was a bit embarrassing. He seemed to think it was nervousness.

 

 

 

I thought it had to go up to about 300ppm for the alarm to sound?

 

F'ing hell Mike, Take Care. There are some people on this planet I really care about, and you are one of them.

 

I've known a few people with migraine, including Val, it can do very weird things to you.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Rob - I too googled the BMJ article and was considering quoting it but it is 10 years out of date

 

Accepted 10 April 2002

 

 

Corr blow it... I must keep my glasses on. I thought that said 2012.

 

Try NHS CO complications article

 

MtB is partially correct about over-reliance on alarms (they should be seen as the belt-AND-braces approach). The navigation authorities dropped regulating on CO in 2002 for private boat owners. The BSS spots CO hazards, draws the boat owner's attention to the potential hazard, advises the owner about the nature of the risk and how to avoid it, then leaves it to the owner to take the actions to keep him/herself (and crew) safe. So no mandatory alarms, just lots of useful advice for boaters to make an informed choice.

 

Quote from a narrowboater customer: "I have decided not to get my gas appliances serviced any more. I have a CO detector instead."

 

ARRRGGGGGJHHHH!!!

 

Ditto.....

[Teadaemon]

Rob - I too googled the BMJ article and was considering quoting it but it is 10 years out of date

 

Accepted 10 April 2002

 

Have humans or CO changed much in 10 years?

 

Seriously, in terms of published research in healthcare, there's nothing wrong with quoting a 10 year old paper, unless significant contradictory evidence has been published more recently.