CO poisoning

[Groundhog]

 

The final possibility is you have a faulty CO alarm. What does it read if you put it outside in the garden for a few hours?

 

 

MtB

 

I had a new central heating system installed in one of my properties, the one I live in. The installer who I use for all such work which I'm not usually present for, supplied and fitted CO alarms which he told me he'd tested. I questioned him as I took this to mean they weren't new and he told me he tests all of them as in his experience faulty units from brand new are not uncommon. He has had false positives from detectors and on that basis can't rule out false negatives so tests before installing.

[Alastair]

MTB, I'm sure you are right.

 

The boiler was installed in 2007 I think, so may predate the regs about room sealed boilers and bedrooms - or the room wasn't used as a bedroom when it was installed.

 

It isn't room sealed, it is a fan-forced flue.

 

The meter didn't give a reading below 10 anywhere, so I think that either it reads high, or 10 is the minimum it will check. 14 is what it reads in the stairwell 2 floors down - and there were no sources of CO operating.

 

So getting it down from 23 to 14 seems to indicate I've got it down from danger to background.

 

The installation manual very clearly showed where sealant should be used on the flue (turret to flue joint, for example). There was no sealant, just a jubilee clip around the turret. I suspect on reading that you will be hopping mad.

 

Your comments are taken in the spirit they were given and I've started poking the budget to so we can look at getting in a replacement in the new year.

 

Might be a bit of a pain finding a plumber I trust . . . I'm half of a mind to do it myself then get someone decent to commission and check the system.

[MtB]

MTB, I'm sure you are right.

 

The boiler was installed in 2007 I think, so may predate the regs about room sealed boilers and bedrooms - or the room wasn't used as a bedroom when it was installed.

 

The regulation concerned is from about 1984 IIRC!

 

 

It isn't room sealed, it is a fan-forced flue.

If it's fan flued, it MUST be room sealed (except in one or two very old and very rare circumstances).

 

What is the make and model of boiler?

 

I still think you are barking up the wrong tree but without knowing the make and model of boiler there is very little constructive I can add, other than to say a correctly burning boiler won't be producing CO in the first place. So if the flue fix you did really made a difference, this boiler has really serious problems and needs to be turned OFF NOW.

 

If you are going to DIY it then first step is to buy or borrow a flue gas analyser to measure the CO in the boiler flue gas. This will tell you everything you need to know. Or get a gas bod in to check it. We all have FGAs these days.

 

 

MtB

[Alastair]

 

If it's fan flued, it MUST be room sealed (except in one or two very old and very rare circumstances).

 

What is the make and model of boiler?

 

Will check when I get home.

 

I thought some boilers had a flue fan system where the fan kicked in just before ignition and ran for a bit after shutdown.

 

The 'fan-forced flue' description is from the manual.

 

Can't see how it is possibly room-sealed since it isn't a balanced flue (just single insulated tube out).

[b0atman]

I have just got a new kidde co detector with a readout .tried in different positions throughout boat and reading is zero .

So how do I test it to prove it works ?

[Robbo]

I have just got a new kidde co detector with a readout .tried in different positions throughout boat and reading is zero .

So how do I test it to prove it works ?

 

It should say in the manual how to test.

[BruceinSanity]

I have just got a new kidde co detector with a readout .tried in different positions throughout boat and reading is zero .

So how do I test it to prove it works ?

A common technique is to hold a lit cigarette or a piece of smouldering string/candlewick near the alarm.

[Guest]

It should say in the manual how to test.

It does. The only test the manual says is to press the 'test' button. But I'm never actually 100% sure this will mean it will actually detect CO. To me that is just a test of the battery the LED's and the sounder.

 

I do know ours does on the boat because we once had an accident with the stove door (long story)

 

You can get tester sprays but I don't know how good or reliable they are, or if they damage the alarms/sensor in any way.

Edited December 16, 2014 by The Dog House

[magnetman]

Maybe hold it by a car exhaust?

 

Not tried it. Yet.

[Barry]

It does. The only test the manual says is to press the 'test' button. But I'm never actually 100% sure this will mean it will actually detect CO. To me that is just a test of the battery the LED's and the sounder.

 

I do know ours does on the boat because we once had an accident with the stove door (long story)

 

You can get tester sprays but I don't know how good or reliable they are, or if they damage the alarms/sensor in any way.

 

Agreed. When I was in the community fire safety department we were well aware that pressing the test button tested everything except the sensor. I think for a smoke alarm a good test would be to hold an incense stick under it.

 

We used to say blow out a candle and hold it under the alarm to test the sensor. There was a story, though, that somebody misunderstood the recommendation and set fire to their smoke alarm

[magnetman]

A common technique is to hold a lit cigarette or a piece of smouldering string/candlewick near the alarm.

Will that set off a carbon monoxide alarm?

[Barry]

Could well do. A high proportion of smoke from many sources is carbon monoxide

[magnetman]

Was wondering as the thread is about CO not smoke alarms I wasn't sure if there was confusion.

 

And I am interested in a simple way to test them

Will try it

Edited December 16, 2014 by magnetman

[Guest]

Was wondering as the thread is about CO not smoke alarms I wasn't sure if there was confusion.

And I am interested in a simple way to test them

Will try it

CO is present in cigarette smoke. Do you know any smokers who could blow/exhale their smoke into it. No idea at all if that will work though.

[Neil2]

I don't mean to make light of what could be a serious situation and this may be an urban myth, but I recall something about a good fart setting off a CO detector or at the very least causing a reading.

 

A more credible explanation could be hydrogen from the batteries if they vent into the cabin as many do.

[magnetman]

I don't know any smokers

 

And I am not flatulent but I think holding the co monitor by my (petrol) generator exhaust might be worth a go for testing ?

[Keeping Up]

I don't mean to make light of what could be a serious situation and this may be an urban myth, but I recall something about a good fart setting off a CO detector or at the very least causing a reading.

 

A more credible explanation could be hydrogen from the batteries if they vent into the cabin as many do.

Our dog's farts would set off the gas alarm but not the CO alarm, although to be fair the gas alarm was at the same level as his backside whereas the CO alarm was way above his head. He learned to sit next to the LPG sensor and fart whenever he wanted our attention, especially when he woke early in the mornings.

[magnetman]

Thats a bit bad. A fault occurs in the gas system on an october evening. You have a bit of a cold. You are woken by the dog farting. oh its a bit chilly. Light the fire

 

Boom

 

Need a new dog

[ditchcrawler]

Not all experts are experts this was about 5 miles from me http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-18078303

[pquinn]

use an incense stick.

[MtB]

CO is present in cigarette smoke. Do you know any smokers who could blow/exhale their smoke into it. No idea at all if that will work though.

 

 

This intrigues me. I sometimes wonder if the CO is the reason for the 'hit' you get as a non-smoker from taking a drag on someone else's cigarette. Or is it the nicotine?

 

As a non-smoking teenager I couldn't tell the difference between a joint and an ordinary roll-up. Both knocked me insensible.

 

MtB

[pquinn]

 

 

This intrigues me. I sometimes wonder if the CO is the reason for the 'hit' you get as a non-smoker from taking a drag on someone else's cigarette. Or is it the nicotine?

 

As a non-smoking teenager I couldn't tell the difference between a joint and an ordinary roll-up. Both knocked me insensible.

 

MtB

You needed to practice more,you soon would have gotten the hang of it.

[Loafer]

 

 

This intrigues me. I sometimes wonder if the CO is the reason for the 'hit' you get as a non-smoker from taking a drag on someone else's cigarette. Or is it the nicotine?

 

As a non-smoking teenager I couldn't tell the difference between a joint and an ordinary roll-up. Both knocked me insensible.

 

MtB

 

Don't think so Mike. CO is undetectable innit? By us I mean. Hence its insiduouusousness.

 

The hit is deffo nicko. Or even better with your assumed additives!

 

ETA: Inferred, not assumed.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Loafer

[Guest]

This intrigues me. I sometimes wonder if the CO is the reason for the 'hit' you get as a non-smoker from taking a drag on someone else's cigarette. Or is it the nicotine?

 

As a non-smoking teenager I couldn't tell the difference between a joint and an ordinary roll-up. Both knocked me insensible.

 

MtB

No idea Mike. I tried it a couple of times and felt it was rubbish. Perhaps I would have been better on something stronger?

[Alastair]

I still think you are barking up the wrong tree but without knowing the make and model of boiler there is very little constructive I can add, other than to say a correctly burning boiler won't be producing CO in the first place. So if the flue fix you did really made a difference, this boiler has really serious problems and needs to be turned OFF NOW.

 

MtB

Worcester 24CDI

 

Looking at the documents that came with the house, the boiler was installed before the attic was converted to a bedroom. However it has since then been inspected and passed.