Buying a boat out of the water?

[Christophe lamby pie]

Hello again,

 

At last we've accepted an offer on the house and can't wait to take to the water in the next couple of months in a used NB.

We've managed to whittle down a short list of 5 boats that tick almost all the boxes and saw what seems an ideal one this afternoon.

 

Two mild concerns though...

The boat has been out of the water for over 3 months and the vendor didn't elaborate as to why - is it cheaper to store a boat out of the water?

 

The vendor has also 'blacked' the lower sides of boat himself but when I checked underneath it hadn't been done and he said that as the flat bottom is below the water that bit doesn't need to be done - sounds a bit dodgy to me or am I being overly cautious?

 

Sorry I'm new to all this so not quite up to speed with all the terminology.

 

Thanks for any input you can send my way

[RLWP]

It is not usual to black the bottom of a canal boat

 

Richard

[Richard10002]

It is not usual to black the bottom of a canal boat

 

Richard

 

This seems to be the case, but I always wonder why. If you don't need to black the bottom, for whatever the reason, why do you need to black the sides, other than cosmetic. The water doesn't know which is the side, and which is the bottom, of a boat.

[twbm]

This seems to be the case, but I always wonder why. If you don't need to black the bottom, for whatever the reason, why do you need to black the sides, other than cosmetic. The water doesn't know which is the side, and which is the bottom, of a boat.

 

'cause the bottom of the boat spends a lot of time rubbing on the bottom of the canal, the sides less so.

 

Meanwhile: If your prospective purchase was in the water, the first thing you'd want to do is to take it out for a survey. DO NOT buy a boat without a full survey - see current topic from someone who did.

 

Obvious possible reason for a boat being out of the water and for sale? Pulled out for survey, needs work on hull, work too expensive for current owner.

Edited September 9, 2012 by twbm

[Keeping Up]

The most degradation of the blacking (or of the hull when the blacking is breached) will occur at the waterline, which should always be on the sides and not under the bottom.

[Ex- Member]

Also the Oxygen level at the depth of a base plate is very low so oxidization doesn't occur any where as much as it does on or near the waterline. When our boat came out the water the back third of the base plate was shiny steel, and the other 3 thirds covered in some kind of muscle crustacean.

[RLWP]

<snip> other 3 thirds covered in some kind of muscle crustacean.

 

You have to watch those crustaceans, working out at the gym like that

 

Richard

 

mussels

[Ex- Member]

You have to watch those crustaceans, working out at the gym like that

 

Richard

 

mussels

 

Meant 2 thirds of course I used to be good at fractions

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Hello again,

 

At last we've accepted an offer on the house and can't wait to take to the water in the next couple of months in a used NB.

We've managed to whittle down a short list of 5 boats that tick almost all the boxes and saw what seems an ideal one this afternoon.

 

Two mild concerns though...

The boat has been out of the water for over 3 months and the vendor didn't elaborate as to why - is it cheaper to store a boat out of the water?

 

The vendor has also 'blacked' the lower sides of boat himself but when I checked underneath it hadn't been done and he said that as the flat bottom is below the water that bit doesn't need to be done - sounds a bit dodgy to me or am I being overly cautious?

 

Sorry I'm new to all this so not quite up to speed with all the terminology.

 

Thanks for any input you can send my way

Well I would want to drive it before I bought it.

[magpie patrick]

It is not usual to black the bottom of a canal boat

 

Richard

 

Yes, but is that because they don't corrode or because it's difficult to do, I strongly suspect the latter

[RLWP]

Yes, but is that because they don't corrode or because it's difficult to do, I strongly suspect the latter

 

I also suspect the latter, plus some of the former making it not worthwhile

 

Richard

[Richard10002]

So what we are saying is that if you stick a piece of steel under a couple of feet of water, it doesn't corrode, or not fast enough to worry about over the lifetime of a narrow boat, ( 30-100 years?). If you stick that same piece of steel close to the surfac of the water, it needs coating with blacking, or it will corrode away quickly?

 

In 12 months, I don't think the bottom of my boat has touched the bottom of the canal, I suspect the same of many boats... Or certainly not enough to scrape a whole thickness of blacking off the whole of a 40ft -70ft x 7 ft steel bottom.

 

Not trying to be awkward - merely trying to understand something that doesn't make much sense.

[RLWP]

If it helps, our heavily used ex-hire boat hull has had to be patched on the front and rear corners of the chine (back end of the bow, beginning of the swim). This is where years of dragging through shallow bits has chamfered the bottom of the hull off. The patch is to weld plate to the bottom of the hull along the edges of the baseplate

 

It is still noticeable in the middle, but not enough to bother fixing yet

 

Richard

[luctor et emergo]

When the bottom of the hull needs to be replaced, itis usually because of water on theinside of the hull. From leaks, or condensation, leaving the base plate in a moist state.

 

Not because the bottom wasn't blacked.

 

A boat is not a house. Things like the bottom, occasionally need replacing. As amatter of course

 

Just so you know

[JDR]

Not rare to see boats that haven't been blacked for 5+ years for whatever reason-easily identified by the uniform band of rust from stem to stern at an equal level above and below the waterline.

[Arthur Brown]

Most damage and corrosion occurs three inches each side of the waterline so keep the boot-top area blacked. The rest of the hull heeds blacking too, inc the bottom.

 

As for a reason why it's on blocks -licence BSS or insurance expired? or big bad leak needs fixing.

 

You are spending your house on this so you need yo know it's right, and robust enough to live on for a while. Get it surveyed When the survey "to do" list comes into you check what needs doing now and what needs doing later.

[Peter-Bullfinch]

Surely you will want to see how the boat performs in the water too? You will want to see how it swims, how the engine performs in forwards and reverse. You will want to check for vibrations and the level of noise. After all you will probably be spending many hours at that tiller. It has got to 'feel' right after spending so much. Get it surveyed but take it for a run too.

[dor]

When I was working at a marina, we often had boats for sale stored on hard standing. This meant that it didn't have to be licensed and also meant it was much cheaper for a prospective buyer to have a survey done, or see for themselves what the condition of the hull was like. It was also possible to start the engine, although you would not of course run it for an extended period, especially if raw water cooled.

 

When a sale was agreed, the boat would go into the water and the opportunity was given to test it out in the water, on the agreement that only a significant problem showing itself (which was unlikely) would allow the deposit to be returned.

 

As for blacking the bottom, on all the boats I saw out of the water, the only ones that had problems with the base plate were the ones that had had significant wear (we were near the Llangollen). In which case, blacking would not have helped much.

[Christophe lamby pie]

Thanks everyone.

General consensus seems to be that (as Tom Jones would say) it's not unusual for the bottom not to be blacked - still doesn't really make sense to me as surely everything below the water line would be subject to corrosion, but I suppose the sides are more likely to take a bit of a beating through beginner piloting!!!

 

Having thought a bit more about it, the license had expired so perhaps I'm being overly suspicious as to why it was on blocks.

 

We did like the boat a lot but he couldn't start the engine (due to a first time electrical fault apparently!) and was going to get it sorted so we could go and see it again with the engine running but it still won't be on the water.

 

I'm reluctant to shell out for a survey before trying her on the water, but with her already out surely I save on the costs of hauling her out - Strewth what a quandry

 

We must make sure our heart doesn't rule our heads on this one - thoughts anyone????

[Guest]

Most damage and corrosion occurs three inches each side of the waterline so keep the boot-top area blacked. The rest of the hull heeds blacking too, inc the bottom.

 

As for a reason why it's on blocks -licence BSS or insurance expired? or big bad leak needs fixing.

 

You are spending your house on this so you need yo know it's right, and robust enough to live on for a while. Get it surveyed When the survey "to do" list comes into you check what needs doing now and what needs doing later.

 

Whilst there has been comment on here recently about some surveyors suggesting it I do not believe this is the 'norm' at all.

 

Plus when we got a quote to do the bottom as well it (can) cost nearly as much again - not forgetting it still wouldn't be possible to do the whole of the base plate anyway unless you could find a way of moving the boat along the blocks it was stood on.

 

Thanks everyone.

General consensus seems to be that (as Tom Jones would say) it's not unusual for the bottom not to be blacked - still doesn't really make sense to me as surely everything below the water line would be subject to corrosion, but I suppose the sides are more likely to take a bit of a beating through beginner piloting!!!

 

Having thought a bit more about it, the license had expired so perhaps I'm being overly suspicious as to why it was on blocks.

 

We did like the boat a lot but he couldn't start the engine (due to a first time electrical fault apparently!) and was going to get it sorted so we could go and see it again with the engine running but it still won't be on the water.

 

I'm reluctant to shell out for a survey before trying her on the water, but with her already out surely I save on the costs of hauling her out - Strewth what a quandry

 

We must make sure our heart doesn't rule our heads on this one - thoughts anyone????

 

Personally I would be wary of not being able to 'test drive' a boat before buying it.

 

Yes the engine may very well start and run while 'on the hard' but how does it perform under load, what about the gearbox under load, and whilst it will eventually over heat while 'on the hard' (running with out cooling water) how do you know it won't do the same whilst in the water??

Edited September 10, 2012 by The Dog House

[hovrin]

surely everything below the water line would be subject to corrosion

 

Take a glass of water and half fill with water. Stand a nail in the glass as vertical as you can get it and then leave for a few days.

 

The nail will rust at the water line because you need oxygen (air) and water to cause rust. (Basic primary school chemistry)

 

Because the base plate is constantly under water it is highly unlikely to rust so blacking is not as important as it is on the sides, at the water line.

 

Well that's the theory anyway.

[twbm]

Normally you'd play with a boat on the water, then make an offer subject to survey and it would be lifted out or docked to complete that. I guess you could make an offer conditional to a good survey result and satisfactory performance back in the water? Expect to have to include the cost of cranage in price negotiations.

[Theo]

Yes, but is that because they don't corrode or because it's difficult to do, I strongly suspect the latter

 

My thoughts precisely.

 

We black the bottom of our boat with coal tar. It's dead quick to put on, dries quickly and helps to fill the pits. We take it out of the water at Debdale where they have a transporter crane which lifts the boat on to 7ft high trestles so you can black the bottom really easily. Teh blacking really doesn't rub off.

 

Oxygen is not the problem with corrosion. It's variable steel quality give rise to electrical cells. Insulating the terminals of the cells is a really good idea.

 

N