Collision Repair

[kendo]

Between bablock Hyth and Pinkhill lock.

ah.. I think I know the bend. We were nearly rammed there too. Hireboat oversteered and was on a collision course. Had to apply full reverse.

Really sorry this has happened to you, Bones. After hearing other boaters tales of being rammed, i had assumed narrowboats would just bounce

off each other, and I'm shocked to see such a big dent in your home. I hope you can get it fixed soonest.

[Tony Brooks]

EDITED - to remove references to wrong boat. I am just pleased it was not overseas visitors who suffered this experience.

 

Only a few hours before we had a wide beam wedged between our stern and the opposite bank because the skipper tried to moor downstream by bringing his bow into the bank. I also saw a chap in the well deck of a hire boat almost decapitated on Osney bridge. He was lucky he collapsed into the well as fast as he did.

 

My guess is that the boat implicated was trying to steer around a bend and the current caught it on the side pushing it across the river. I doubt the skipper put enough revs on soon enough. I know I have been having trouble staying on my own side of the river on the tight bends. This is not helped by the EAs method of large vegetation control - they just ignore it! This forces boats to zig-zag past a series of such obstructions and in many cases it is only pure luck that nothing is coming the other way.

 

There was/is a very significant flow and I suspect Bones would have been doing maybe 6mph over the ground just to maintain steerage way. Add that to the speed of the upstream boat and we have a closing speed of perhaps 10 mph or more, I do not doubt the force of the collision.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Tony Brooks

[BruceinSanity]

 

My guess is that the boat implicated was trying to steer around a bend and the current caught it on the side pushing it across the river. I doubt the skipper put enough revs on soon enough. I know I have been having trouble staying on my own side of the river on the tight bends. This is not helped by the EAs method of large vegetation control - they just ignore it! This forces boats to zig-zag past a series of such obstructions and in many cases it is only pure luck that nothing is coming the other way.

 

There was/is a very significant flow and I suspect Bones would have been doing maybe 6mph over the ground just to maintain steerage way. Add that to the speed of the upstream boat and we have a closing speed of perhaps 10 mph or more, I do not doubt the force of the collision.

 

Bringing a 70 footer down from Lechlade with any flow on the river at all can be a nightmare. Some of those bends are so tight you have to cross over to get round them, and as Tony says, the overgrowth on the banks means you have no chance of spotting a boat coming upstream.

 

In addition, people used to canals may not be aware of the rule that the boat going upstream keeps out of the way, I guess.

[larkshall]

I don't think they can, can they? - they can recommend but not insist you use a particular one and they may charge an additional excess if you choose your own (like motor insurers) but anyway it will be claim on the other boats policy surely, given they were on the wrong side of the road so if it was me I would certainly be choosing may own repairer....

 

 

They can usually, it will be hidden in the small print. However I would get three firm quotations, and stump for the one that suites you best. I friend of mine had a claim which the insurance company argued about regarding a barge, in the end my friend opted to pay the difference between the cheapest quote, and the one he preferred.

[Guest]

They can usually, it will be hidden in the small print. However I would get three firm quotations, and stump for the one that suites you best. I friend of mine had a claim which the insurance company argued about regarding a barge, in the end my friend opted to pay the difference between the cheapest quote, and the one he preferred.

 

I'm curious to know why marine insurers can but motor insurers cannot....any body know?

 

Surely an issue for the Office of Fair trading...

[bizzard]

Most collisions like this are caused by one or both parties panicking and losing their head at the last minute when a collision becomes imminent especially if one or the other or both are novices, losing their head and either shutting the throttle, popping it into neutral or more likely slamming the boat into astern,and losing control and steerage instead of keeping the power on or even increasing it to gain more steerage in order to dodge each other, but of course sometimes the dodgy situation has been realized for a little time with one or both parties dithering hoping that the other boat will start the avoiding action and it is often then to late, the boats are too close and a collision is unavoidable then there's no option but to go full astern to try and lessen the blow.

The international rule of course in this head on situation is if at all possible both vessels should turn to starboard.

[grahame r]

I think the discussion of this particular incident has probably run it's course and there were certainly no warning boards out on Saturday, but to go slightly off topic, had there been red or even yellow boards displayed would the insurance companies have countenanced a claim or even decided it was Bones's fault as she was going downstream which is more hazardous than upstream in a strong current?

[Proper Job]

To me I think it would be useless to speculate.

 

Every incident is different and would be looked at individually by an insurance company.

[Bones]

I think the discussion of this particular incident has probably run it's course and there were certainly no warning boards out on Saturday, but to go slightly off topic, had there been red or even yellow boards displayed would the insurance companies have countenanced a claim or even decided it was Bones's fault as she was going downstream which is more hazardous than upstream in a strong current?

 

Bones wouldn't have been navigating, for pleasure, down stream on red boards and I doubt I would have been on yellow either.

 

AND

 

I also think that unless people were actually there it is impossible to speculate about what happened, who was where or why.

 

To me I think it would be useless to speculate.

 

Every incident is different and would be looked at individually by an insurance company.

 

Absolutely.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Bones

[RLWP]

Bones wouldn't have been navigating, for pleasure, down stream on red boards and I doubt I would have been on yellow either.

 

AND

 

I also think that unless people were actually there it is impossible to speculate about what happened, who was where or why.

 

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Point of order Miss... It's quite possible to speculate. Coming up with anything remotely like the truth is highly unlikely

 

Glad you and your woof are OK

 

Richard

[Bones]

Point of order Miss... It's quite possible to speculate. Coming up with anything remotely like the truth is highly unlikely

 

Glad you and your woof are OK

 

Richard

 

Indeed... you are quite right! speculation is possible but it is a bit frustrating to read people's speculations when they weren't there (and I am trying to be fair to both parties) but you are right in the latter part of the sentence, and I shall remember that - but speculation often becomes the truth of the people not involved!

 

Fortunately the dog had decided to get off at one of the locks and onto a different boat.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

but speculation often becomes the truth of the people not involved!

 

<snip>

 

Very true. What a wise woman you are

 

Richard

[Proper Job]

Very true. What a wise woman you are

 

Richard

Whoohhhhh........

 

Steady on

[Bones]

Whoohhhhh........

 

Steady on

 

OI! I nearly got away with that......

[MoominPapa]

Very sorry to hear about this Bones. I hope it gets sorted out without too much grief.

 

One question: what damage (if any) was there to the other boat? One assumes that the other party will be more keen to co-operate with the insurers if they too have insured damage.

 

It may be that there's no damage to the other boat, of course. The stem of a NB is very strong. When a dayboat turned across in front of us at the last moment on the GU, our stem put a significant dent on the other boat's front quarter but the only damage we ever found on Melaleuca was stretched chains holding the front button. The bang was very loud and very shocking.

 

MP.

 

ETA: was the other boat fitted with any front fenderage? Is that a requirement on the Thames?

Edited July 3, 2012 by MoominPapa

[Bones]

To be honest, I don't know what damage, if any, there was to the other boat, by the time we spoke I felt it was appropriate for the insurance to handle the matter. After the incident the man didn't speak to me and when he did speak he was shouting at my crew member. I diffused the situation and when the stern of the other boat did pass me he had his back to me so I was unable to address him directly.

 

We did speak when he came to my boat on Sunday to exchange insurance details and to receive a letter I had written to him. Due to the shouting the day before I was reluctant to engage in a 'what happened' and as I was holding him entirely responsible and liable to any repair I suggested we communicated through the insurance company about the what ifs, buts and hows.

 

The photograph I have of the boat after the incident shows there is a bow fender but it is positioned below the steel fender on the boat.

 

I don't know what the requirement is on the Thames for fenders...

 

Very sorry to hear about this Bones. I hope it gets sorted out without too much grief.

 

Thank you. It was all very unpleasant.

[Chertsey]

...

 

 

 

Enough to know if we ever have a bump or a real serious problem with our boat we won;t post it here...

Oh good.

 

Most collisions like this are caused by one or both parties panicking and losing their head at the last minute when a collision becomes imminent especially if one or the other or both are novices, losing their head and either shutting the throttle, popping it into neutral or more likely slamming the boat into astern,and losing control and steerage instead of keeping the power on or even increasing it to gain more steerage in order to dodge each other, but of course sometimes the dodgy situation has been realized for a little time with one or both parties dithering hoping that the other boat will start the avoiding action and it is often then to late, the boats are too close and a collision is unavoidable then there's no option but to go full astern to try and lessen the blow.

The international rule of course in this head on situation is if at all possible both vessels should turn to starboard.

Someone pointed out something very obvious and wise to me the other day which I hadn't previously thought of: To avoid hitting a fast-moving object, aim at where it is now.

[Bones]

 

Someone pointed out something very obvious and wise to me the other day which I hadn't previously thought of: To avoid hitting a fast-moving object, aim at where it is now.

 

I wasn't a fast moving object, but I wonder whether the person steering the boat that hit me uses that policy when navigating the river.

[Nine of Hearts]

Someone pointed out something very obvious and wise to me the other day which I hadn't previously thought of: To avoid hitting a fast-moving object, aim at where it is now.

 

My brudder-in-law is the proud(?) possesor of a Norton Commando, and given the poor handling characteristics and appalling braking performance of British bikes of that era, he explained that the best policy should anything suddenly pop out at you was to "hit it square, and keep it upright". Perhaps Mr Man was a British bike afficianado?

 

(apologies Ms Bones if levity is not what's called for at this juncture)

[Proper Job]

My brudder-in-law is the proud(?) possesor of a Norton Commando, and given the poor handling characteristics and appalling braking performance of British bikes of that era, he explained that the best policy should anything suddenly pop out at you was to "hit it square, and keep it upright". Perhaps Mr Man was a British bike afficianado?

 

(apologies Ms Bones if levity is not what's called for at this juncture)

I think bringing the handling in to question isn't fair. They do handle well.

 

.......... now, stopping in the same postcode (especially if it has a front drum brake) can be a challenge

[Guest]

Oh good.

 

Thank-you for confirming exactly why I wouldn't.

 

I wasn't a fast moving object, but I wonder whether the person steering the boat that hit me uses that policy when navigating the river.

 

And given it was coming towards you if you aimed for where it was you would have still hit it anyway.....

[churchward]

Any arguemnt will be an insurance argument. My blog, nor the forum, nor anywhere else is appropriate for it. People can justify themselves until they are blue in the face. I know what I saw, my crew (who had a good view of the bow) knows what he saw and the 4 other witness' know what they saw. We will all report, as will, no doubt, the other boat what they saw. The most important thing for this thread is ensuring that the works done on the boat are done well. I would like my boat and my stuff fixed as quickly as possible and being a believer in hope I hope that it will go well, quickly, smoothly and without too much stress. I am also a pessimistic optimist with realistic tendencies... but for now hope prevails.

 

 

 

it was!

I sincerely wish you a swift conclusion to getting your boat (and home) fixed.

 

I can only try and imagine how you must have felt after the incident and how you feel now going through the issues of getting the insurance company up to speed and of course the boat repairs quoted and completed.

 

I wish you all the very best.

[Bones]

I sincerely wish you a swift conclusion to getting your boat (and home) fixed.

 

I can only try and imagine how you must have felt after the incident and how you feel now going through the issues of getting the insurance company up to speed and of course the boat repairs quoted and completed.

 

I wish you all the very best.

 

Thank you.

 

The insurance company have sent me some forms to fill out and have asked me to provide

 

sight of written estimates from two repairers (with whom you should raise your queries regarding the gas locker and doors), and the statements from the witness'. Please ensure you include a diagram of the incident to assist our understanding of the circumstances.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2012 by Bones

[grahame r]

Bones wouldn't have been navigating, for pleasure, down stream on red boards and I doubt I would have been on yellow either.

 

AND

 

I also think that unless people were actually there it is impossible to speculate about what happened, who was where or why.

 

 

 

Absolutely.

 

I wasn't speculating about Bones's incident, I thought I'd made that clear. What I want to know is does going out on red or even yellow boards invalidate your insurance. I think this is particularly relevant as the EA seem to be putting out yellow boards at the first sign of rain recently.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Please ensure you include a diagram of the incident to assist our understanding of the circumstances.

 

<snip>

 

Don't forget to include a compass rose and some whales and dolphins will you

 

Richard