Batteries nightmare

[Keith M]

We are quite new to boating, and for the last 12 months have had exhaustive and exhausting problems with our electrical system.  I will try to be brief, but it's difficult............. You may want to skip some of the detail and move straight to the penultimate para!

 

Our problem first became apparent with low battery warnings in May last year when our brand new (and first) nb was just under a year old, and thus still under warranty.  After many phone calls, emails and tests, the final outcome - a month later - was a ruined bank of 6 'boiled' batteries, extensive damage to the engine room paintwork caused by leaking acid, and a bill for £1,000, which I had to pay, despite having followed the recommendations of the boat builder for sorting out the issue quickly. Our electrician said the extent of explosive gases present in the engine bay was potentially lethal.  6 new 135 amp batteries were thus installed in late July 2011.

 

After testing by the various suppliers, i.e. Victron (we have a 12/3000/130  inverter/charger, which I took to Victron for testing), the battery supplier and the boat builder, they all denied responsibility for the failure, for the cost of the new batteries (although the builders did replace one of our 2 x 95amp alternators, and repainted much of the engine room) and of the engineer's report which they had asked on me to get for them.  

 

Victron said that, apart from a faulty temperature sensor, there was nothing wrong with the inverter, while the builders and battery suppliers have blamed 'misuse' (a term not yet defined) of the batteries. The builders say they will not pay, because both Victron and the battery suppliers say they won't.  I say my contract (and thus warranty) is with the boat builders, not with their sub contractors.  Nobody is sure what the problem was (Victron say the faulty sensor could not have caused the overcharging; and replacing the alternator was very much a 'last throw of the dice'). No issues with the starter battery thus far.  Have tried to rigorously keep the batteries topped up with distilled water.

 

But, perhaps more significantly, I still seem to have battery problems.  I now get further low battery warnings with the bank of new batteries, but seemingly not due to overcharging; although there is more evidence of acid damage to the engine room paintwork, that seems to be a residue from last year's problems, and there is no other evidence of further overcharging/boiling; the batteries don't seem to be overheating at all.  We have been on the shoreline most of the time since buying the boat; probably around 35 trips out, and 180 engine hours in 2 years.

 

The readings below were taken last night and this morning, after an evening's average use (TV, fridge/freezer, inverter and a few lights), with the batteries fully charged from the shoreline at 5pm., then taken off the shoreline until 9am.  Heaviest consumption (lights on) started after 9pm.  The figures are taken from our Victron 600S Monitor.

 

                                At 5pm.       7pm        9pm.      11pm.     9am*

V:                            12.56.         12.59.     12.43.    10.3.       10.4*

SOC:                       98.5.          96.8.       94.7.      90.4.        Not available

CE (amps used):   15               36           58.2.      98.5.        Not available

*Figure taken after electricity shut down overnight. When reconnected to shoreline, recharge started at around 14.5volts and 90amps.  Absorption mode started after around 1 hour.  I got full charge readings (100% SOC; no amps going in; V reading of 14.6 ) after 2 hours. The charger moved from absorption to float after another 6 hours (with voltage down to 14v).

 

The 11 pm voltage figure at 11pm looks very disturbing, of course, and I cannot understand the apparent contradiction between it and the SOC%, which seems fine.  Could one of them be wrong? I am at the very limits of my understanding here!  In April, with little or no load (33 amps in 20 hours) the voltage held up well, at 12.54 (SOC 97%) after 20 hours off the shoreline. We never run heaters, toasters etc. off the batteries.

 

Apologies for the length of this post.  In summary, we have been left with

a) a bill for £1,000 (now down to £700, builders having offered me £300) to resolve extreme battery/gassing problems, seemingly caused by overcharging which began within the one year boat warranty period

the suggestion that the problems were our fault ('misuse')

c) a continuing issue where voltage levels of the replacement batteries drop to very unhealthy levels within four hours of being fully charged,  but with no evidence of overcharging/gassing. This has happened with the new batteries, both when cruising (using up to 150 amps a day), but also immediately after shoreline charging, as above.

d) a developing reluctance/nervousness on our part to cruise on our brand new boat!

 

Any views on the problem, and the attitudes of the various parties? Suggestions/comments would be gratefully received - many thanks.

 

Bob

 

 

The default setting of the Victron unit is for AGM / Gel batteries with a float voltage of around 13.8 volts.

 

With the wet lead type of battery you need a float voltage of 13.2

 

It would seem the the Victron combi is incorrect set up if you have a float voltage around 14 volt

 

Keith

[Chris Pink]

Hi Up The Creek

 

Sorry I missed you are new to the forum, welcome.

 

Your initial responses don't seem very helpful so far, i.e solicitor etc

 

There are some very knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum so don't let the minority inane on here put you off.

A

 

How dare you call me inane with your content free post "bring back Gibbo" how is that more insightful and helpful than "see a solicitor". The OP has a complicated warranty claim against the seller of faulty goods - the boat builder NOT any of the manufacturers. To that end Gibbo is no use, pontificating about bank wiring is no use.

 

So if you can't contribute anything more useful I suggest you keep your inane and asinine comments to yourself.

 

I repeat; the OP needs legal advice.

 

See a solicitor.

 

To dibble around with ill informed discussion will not help him recover his large financial loss.

 

If he wants to be better armed in his claim he needs a certified report by a qualified engineer who can inspect and measure not trite comments by you Arkright or idle speculation.

 

 

 

..

 

 

 

And yes, I see the probable need for a solicitor! I think that, under the Sale of Goods Act, the builder cannot shunt responsibility onto their contractors; they must provide a boat which is 'fit for purpose', ie with an electrical system which works for at least a year..........

 

Thanks for the welcome!!!

 

Bob

 

I am glad this is clear to you. The caution I would advise is trying to fix this problem yourself. You need to keep the chain of responsibilty clear if you pursue a fix from the boatbuilder. I am sure a solicitor will advise you thus. A letter reminding them of their responsibilities should focus their mind.

 

If there is an issue with the Victron or its configuration let the boatbuilder pursue that.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Chris Pink

[smileypete]

Any views on the problem, and the attitudes of the various parties? Suggestions/comments would be gratefully received - many thanks.

With regard to the original overcharging problem, did you always isolate the batts when the boat was left unattended between trips?

 

For the existing charge problems I'd recommend asking your electrician to fit a 'Smartguage' battery monitor which is far more 'fit and forget' than the other batt monitors.

 

To learn more about boats it would be well worth going on a course from 'Tony Brooks Training' or he could point you in the right direction.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited June 7, 2012 by smileypete

[Up The Creek]

The default setting of the Victron unit is for AGM / Gel batteries with a float voltage of around 13.8 volts.

 

With the wet lead type of battery you need a float voltage of 13.2

 

It would seem the the Victron combi is incorrect set up if you have a float voltage around 14 volt

 

Keith

 

Thanks.

 

Float voltage has gone down to 13.4, but it took a few hours to get there!

 

Bob

 

How dare you call me inane with your content free post "bring back Gibbo" how is that more insightful and helpful than "see a solicitor". The OP has a complicated warranty claim against the seller of faulty goods - the boat builder NOT any of the manufacturers. To that end Gibbo is no use, pontificating about bank wiring is no use.

 

So if you can't contribute anything more useful I suggest you keep your inane and asinine comments to yourself.

 

I repeat; the OP needs legal advice.

 

See a solicitor.

 

To dibble around with ill informed discussion will not help him recover his large financial loss.

 

If he wants to be better armed in his claim he needs a certified report by a qualified engineer who can inspect and measure not trite comments by you Arkright or idle speculation.

 

 

 

..

 

 

 

I am glad this is clear to you. The caution I would advise is trying to fix this problem yourself. You need to keep the chain of responsibilty clear if you pursue a fix from the boatbuilder. I am sure a solicitor will advise you thus. A letter reminding them of their responsibilities should focus their mind.

 

If there is an issue with the Victron or its configuration let the boatbuilder pursue that.

 

Yes, I would want to follow up the suggestions made by the more knowledgeable amongst you, but under (or by) someone well qualified, thus my query re somebody local to assist.

 

Have already threatened legal action, thus the £300 offer from the builders. Will still pursue Victron (again) under their 2 year warranty.

 

Thanks again.

 

Bob

 

With regard to the original overcharging problem, did you always isolate the batts when the boat was left unattended between trips?

 

For the existing charge problems I'd recommend asking your electrician to fit a 'Smartguage' battery monitor which is far more 'fit and forget' than the other batt monitors.

 

To learn more about boats it would be well worth going on a course from 'Tony Brooks Training' or he could point you in the right direction.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Up The Creek]

Good points.

 

No, I did not isolate the batteries in between trips. So much good practice, to be learnt only by trial and error. That is why I invested in ALL the best/additional gizmos recommended by the builder, as far as possible to avoid the difficulties we ended up with. AND went on a course, though not (sadly) Tony Brooks'.

 

Oh for an Idiots Guide, to be provided with all new boats!!! I have a 22 page 'Owners' Manual', of which 3 lines are devoted to batteries.

 

Bob

[Tony Brooks]

Good points.

 

No, I did not isolate the batteries in between trips. So much good practice, to be learnt only by trial and error. That is why I invested in ALL the best/additional gizmos recommended by the builder, as far as possible to avoid the difficulties we ended up with. AND went on a course, though not (sadly) Tony Brooks'.

 

Oh for an Idiots Guide, to be provided with all new boats!!! I have a 22 page 'Owners' Manual', of which 3 lines are devoted to batteries.

 

Bob

 

 

And if you had I would have made the limitations of your equipment perfectly clear (on the Electrics course).

 

It is not your fault but I think several things have conspired against you and your builder.

 

First I want to emphasise Nicknorman's post.

 

First of all we can not now ask for the date from tests of the battery charger but it would be sensible to measure the voltage across the batteries at the END of a long days cruising with the engine running at about 1500rpm. if it reads in excess of about 14.5 volts then then in my opinion the alternator regulator is set too high for general use so unless you have lead calcium batteries they will need VERY regular topping up.

 

Now the figures you provide are shouting that you have never re-synchd the idiot battery state of charge meter - of if you did it was many months ago. If you must rely upon these things please ensure the battery is fully charged every few weeks and re-sych the meter. At the moment its readings are worse then useless and may well be causing you to further damage your batteries.

 

The volatge readings for batteries are as follows. The info in brackets show the true state of charge whilst the others show what we assume the state of charge will be to maximise battery life. They should be taken with no significant load on the bank and after standing or discharging with a moderate load for a few minutes after they are take off charge.

 

Fully charged: 12.7 to 12.8 (fully charged)

half charged: 12.5 (actually 3/4 charged)

Discharged: 12.2 to 12.3 (actually half charged)

 

(Fully discharged) 10.5 volts or less - the lower the more damage will be done.

 

We can see straight away that your batteries at 12.56v were no more than about half charged when you took them off charge and if there was no discharge between removing the charger and taking the reading surface charge would be giving a false high reading.

 

From then on they dropped dangerously discharged very quickly. This indicates (given the size of bank) that they are badly sulphated as well as possibly out of cyclic life.

 

Unless you have sophisticated test equipment or are able and willing to do discharge test over 20 hours on each battery that is as much as we can say about the stae of your batteries. If they are wet open cell batteries that have been kept well topped up and been state few charging cycles since last topping them up then a gradated hydrometer will tell you more. If the numerical readings differ by more that 0.03 (put a decimal point after the first 1 on the float) then you have a bad cell as you would if you sucked up coloured acid. IF the voltage reading is showing a well charged battery but the hydrometer is not it indicates a sulphated battery. Sulphation is caused by leaving the batteries standing in any state of discharge.

 

Modern chargers almost universally use something called adaptive charging and we have seen explanations on the forum as to why adaptive charging does not work properly. Basically it tends to step down through the charging stages too soon leaving a partially discharged battery.

 

What I think has been happening is that you have believed the idiot meter and stopped charging far too soon, this has been exacerbated by the charger going into float earlier that it ideally would so again persuading you the batteries are fully charged. This has caused you to stop charging too early thus allowing sulphation to reduce the capacity and by believing the idiot meter discharging the bank way below the ideal and thus dramatically reducing the cyclic life.

 

I beg you to learn to interpret the voltmeter and ammeter readings and judge your batteries state of charge by them.

 

When on the alternator make sure you have less than about 10 amps of charge flowing before you stop charging, in fact the lower the better. You are unlikely to get much above about 80% of fully charged whatever vendors of kit may promise.

 

When you stop charging and after a few minutes of moderate load on the batteries check the volatge against the table above. Do the same just before you turn in and again in the morning. You do not need a load for the last two. This will give you a fair idea about your bank's state of charge. If the volatge is suddenly lower than normal or the charging amps higher than normal at any point in time you need to explain it or think about a battery or charging fault.

 

Again IGNORE the SOC meter.

 

Please do not feel too badly about this. I get so many questions about this sort of thing every year I know it is a problem for those not well versed in such matters.

[nicknorman]

I think before you get a solicitor involved (who will charge you for every moment of his time) you should determine exactly what went wrong and how to fix it. We can help with that but if any legal action is likely, I suspect you will need an "expert report" from a professional with some letters after his name. It would still be helpful if you determine for yourself what is wrong, apart from anything else it will be a good learning experience!

 

Just to explain the issue with your 600S battery monitor, it reles on the actual battery capacity being set up correctly, and as the batteries age their capacity inevitably drops so the gauge becomes inaccurate. Since the gauge is counting current out and current in, but you have to put more current in than you took out by a rather vague amount, the meter will inevitably start to misread after a few cycles unless it is synchronised by fully charging the batteries ( and bearing in mind the last 20% or so takes a long time to recharge for chemical reasons, regardless of the equipment) and setting the indicated SOC to 100%.

 

By contrast the Smartgauge that is the favourite of this forum, works rather cleverly on voltage only and, although not very accurate on the charge cycle, is very good on discharge and does not suffer from cumulative errors, and so is a far more user friendly fit-and-forget device.

[Gibbo]

... but you have to put more current in than you took out by a rather vague amount...

 

The most perfect description I ever heard!

[nicknorman]

The most perfect description I ever heard!

Wow, the hero returns! Welcome back!

[Gibbo]

Here's what I guess happened...

 

Both the main battery take off points are from one end of the battery bank instead of from Diagon Alley (ask Mr Potter).

 

The battery interconnecting leads are too small to deal with this.

 

The first battery has got battered because it's doing all the work.

 

When that battery failed, the next battery got battered because it was now doing all the work. And so on, Ad Infinitum, or at least until it runs of of batteries to knacker.

 

When you charge, one battery (the one at the end) gets all the grunt and boils its knackers off.

 

Sooner or later all the batteries are knackered.

 

All the given voltage and current readings support the above.

 

Bet you a pound.

[matty40s]

Here's what I guess happened...

 

Both the main battery take off points are from one end of the battery bank instead of from Diagon Alley (ask Mr Potter).

 

The battery interconnecting leads are too small to deal with this.

 

The first battery has got battered because it's doing all the work.

 

When that battery failed, the next battery got battered because it was now doing all the work. And so on, Ad Infinitum, or at least until it runs of of batteries to knacker.

 

When you charge, one battery (the one at the end) gets all the grunt and boils its knackers off.

 

Sooner or later all the batteries are knackered.

 

All the given voltage and current readings support the above.

 

Bet you a pound.

eyup, welcome back, I think I did a post that was worthy of you up top of page

[Tinker Fox]

Just to explain the issue with your 600S battery monitor, it reles on the actual battery capacity being set up correctly, and as the batteries age their capacity inevitably drops so the gauge becomes inaccurate. Since the gauge is counting current out and current in, but you have to put more current in than you took out by a rather vague amount, the meter will inevitably start to misread after a few cycles unless it is synchronised by fully charging the batteries ( and bearing in mind the last 20% or so takes a long time to recharge for chemical reasons, regardless of the equipment) and setting the indicated SOC to 100%.

 

I also have a 600S battery monitor and would agree with others here that the SOC indication is, by and large, a complete work of fiction.

[nicknorman]

Here's what I guess happened...

 

Both the main battery take off points are from one end of the battery bank instead of from Diagon Alley (ask Mr Potter).

 

The battery interconnecting leads are too small to deal with this.

 

The first battery has got battered because it's doing all the work.

 

When that battery failed, the next battery got battered because it was now doing all the work. And so on, Ad Infinitum, or at least until it runs of of batteries to knacker.

 

When you charge, one battery (the one at the end) gets all the grunt and boils its knackers off.

 

Sooner or later all the batteries are knackered.

 

All the given voltage and current readings support the above.

 

Bet you a pound.

 

You are only just back and I am going to disagree with you already! Unless the interconnecting wires are tiny I think the rapidity of failure is too great to be explained by this. A correctly set up charging system should not boil batteries to the extent the OP had regardless of battery interconnect detail. Wet cell batteries can run happily at say 14.6v for quite long period (ie many hours) without significant boiling. I know because that is what our alterntaor puts out, we cruise for many hours after the batteries are fully charged, and in over a year they have not needed topping up. On discharge the end battery will be cycled more deeply and so overall life shortened but not I think to the extent the OP has suffered.

 

What I think may have happened is that something was incorrectly set up that boiled the first set of batteries to death. This has in fact been fixed but the OP has put too much faith in the 600S SOC reading, and chronically undercharged the batteries resulting in them becoming totally sulphated.

 

ETA Maybe the OP could post a photo of his battery bank to show the interconnecting leads?

Edited June 8, 2012 by nicknorman

[dor]

Never trust a SOC meter!

 

Batteries discharged to 50% (say 12.3V) will need anything between 10 and 20 hours to get fully recharged.

 

In my experience, knackered batteries are invariably due to people underestimating the length of time it takes to recharge batteries. You need to watch an ammeter; your 100A alternator will drop to 50A quite quickly and may be down to 30 after an hour. Amps will continue to drop until a float current of say 1-2A is achieved after many hours.

 

An apparent good state of charge coupled with low capacity says batteries sulphated.

[gary4lw]

I wonder if the OP is'nt expecting too much from his batteries and treating his boat like a house with an unlmited supply of electical fairies . Just a thought no offence !!!!!!

Edited June 8, 2012 by gary4lw

[bizzard]

Why not carry out this power audit buisiness that everyone keeps going on about for nearly or semi-knackered batteries instead of new ones,as with the killer punishment that people seem to need to give them these days new batteries are soon on the downhill path anyway and reach the semi-knackered state pretty quickly.

All this carry on about high powered boat electrical systems might be interesting and entertaining for the electrical enthusiasts who's hobby it is to be perpetually checking,examining,inspecting,monitoring,discussing,pondering over and pulling their hair out over their systems,and money is no object.But what about the folk with little electrical knowledge nor interest,that have heard that all these wonderful huge inverter chargers,big alternators,massive battery banks ect ect will power all their mains domestic appliances,look at all the trouble and heartache they're being led into,and are or would they be inclined to carry out this what seems to be ''around the clock monitoring and checking lark''.By all accounts the electrical experts and enthusiasts seem just as fascinated by it all as the non electrical thinking people it seems to me and thrive on it all,and the horrendous expense. He!he!he!

[Robbo]

All this carry on about high powered boat electrical systems might be interesting and entertaining for the electrical enthusiasts who's hobby it is to be perpetually checking,examining,inspecting,monitoring,discussing,pondering over and pulling their hair out over their systems,and money is no object.But what about the folk with little electrical knowledge nor interest,that have heard that all these wonderful huge inverter chargers,big alternators,massive battery banks ect ect will power all their mains domestic appliances,look at all the trouble and heartache they're being led into

 

The more knowledge you have, even if you have no interest and it's only the basics, the less money, trouble, heartache, time and not been mis-sold a system you'll have. A little research and reading goes a long way.

[grahame r]

Now the figures you provide are shouting that you have never re-synchd the idiot battery state of charge meter - of if you did it was many months ago. If you must rely upon these things please ensure the battery is fully charged every few weeks and re-sych the meter. At the moment its readings are worse then useless and may well be causing you to further damage your batteries.

 

 

I've been trying to come to terms with the SOC reading of my Victron BMV302 and have noticed that the default setting for the Tail Current (the current at which the monitor considers the battery to be fully charged) is 4% of battery capacity which in the case of the OP would be 32.4amps. In other words when the current drops to 32.4amps and the voltage meets a minimum requirement (default 13.2volts) for a given period (default 3 minutes) then the monitor considers the battery to be 100% charged and will reset the SOC to 100% and the Consumed Energy to zero. This is patently wrong, as another contributor has pointed out this should be about 2-3 amps. As Tony has also pointed out this will have a cumulative effect very quickly showing a nearly totally discharged battery as fully charged. Changing the Tail Current setting to the minimum of 0.5% and the Battery Capacity to a more realistic figure, decreasing it occassionally as the batteries age, I'm hoping will give a more realistic estimate of actual SOC.

[George94]

The more knowledge you have, even if you have no interest and it's only the basics, the less money, trouble, heartache, time and not been mis-sold a system you'll have. A little research and reading goes a long way.

 

Actually, when it comes to the black art of charging batteries, even a lot of research doesn't take you very far.

 

I echo Bizaard's sentiments. A boat, unless connected to shore power, is not like a house. You can't guzzle electricity unless you have a 7KW or more generator runnning until you go to bed.

 

So the advice, IMVHO, is as follows (unless you buy a huge genny, and go to bed at 8pm):

 

1 Forget 230V altogether when not on shore power (an exception might be made for a washing machine, using a cold cycle).

2 Do a power audit to work out your daily kWh need.

3 Buy batteries with four times that capacity.

4 Fit a Smartguage. Don't stop charging until you are back to 100%.

5 Install solar panels

6 Buy a 2kW petrol genny

7 Install an expensive charger, like a Victron, and match it to the batteries.

8 Never let the batteries go below 50% of capacity, preferably 60%.

9 If you think you can keep to 8, and have the money, consider AGM batteries which are very forgiving.

10 If you use a washing machine, you'll also need an inverter

11 Install a solar hot water system to heat the water in summer. This can be done quite cheaply (under £500 DIY).

 

Have I left anything out?

Edited June 8, 2012 by George94

[bizzard]

The more knowledge you have, even if you have no interest and it's only the basics, the less money, trouble, heartache, time and not been mis-sold a system you'll have. A little research and reading goes a long way.

I couldn't agree more,but like other practical things,some non practical people just cannot grasp these things no matter how much swotting up they try to do and can't really cope with the simplest of simple one battery systems,why some can't or have never topped up their cars battery never mind checking and topping up 7 or 8 of them beneath a heavy and dangerous great lump of steel plate decking that most w/beam boats seem to have,and then contorting themselves into the shape of the letter ''S''so as to get at em. And all those terminals and battery lugs to be seen to down there in semi darkness.

[Up The Creek]

A lot for me to take in, but I'm getting there! Some responses below to the various points made.

 

The comments and suggestions about alternator use/regulation/testing, I understand, and will implement - rigorously!

 

Ref. periods on the shoreline (where we have spent the vast bulk of our time), some points of clarification on our battery care. It's sadly true that I believed uncritically the readouts from the Victron Monitor; I had, it seems wrongly, thought the whole charging and recharging routine was controlled automatically (and efficiently.....?) by the Victron charging and monitoring equipment. I will certainly not rely on SOC again, but it has never actually led me to take the batteries off charge just because it suggested they were 100% 'fully' charged; I have done so only to test their health every few months. The adaptive charging problem you explain, though, would certainly have added to any potential difficulties.

 

The only occasions we have ever left the batteries standing discharged have been overnight when (infrequently) cruising. As for 'using the boat like a house', yes, maybe on occasions, but only when on the shoreline. When using the batteries, we have been scrupulously (and increasingly!) careful with them, to a degree that others with a similar size bank have said is unnecessary. Yet (as a reminder), two new 810 amp battery banks seem to have been destroyed, one boiled and one not, in less than two years, with a total 180 hours engine use (first bank:150 hours; second bank: 30 hours), from new. The present bank has left the shoreline just once since their installation in late July 2011.

 

Re the synchronisation issue, I had understood (wrongly?) from the manual that the meter was resynched every time the battery was fully charged (in our case, regularly, on the shoreline), so I thought it should have happened regularly and automatically.

 

After the batteries were (I think!) fully charged at 13.4 volts yesterday evening and then waiting for 3-4 hours with no charge or load, I took the following hydrometer readings:

 

Battery Cells

1. 1.255. 1.255. 1.230. 1.220. 1.220. 1.240

2. 1.225. 1.250. 1.250. 1.260. 1.260. 1.250

3. 1.230. 1.230. 1.230. 1.240. 1.250. 1.260

4. 1.225. 1.250. 1.240. 1.225. 1.240. 1.240

5. 1.230. 1.245. 1.250. 1.250. 1.250. 1.250

6. 1.250 1.250. 1.230. 1.250. 1.250. 1.250

 

 

From your comments, these readings would seem to show some bad cells?

 

Thanks - hugely - for the time you have spent on this. I am slightly embarrassed, though grateful, for the amount of debate this has generated but, on a positive note, this does rather support my contention that, as the problem seems relatively hard to explain, it is unreasonable for the boat builders to deny it is their responsibility as a warranty issue. Priority now is to stop it happening again; I will post photos early next week (am having a 'battery-free' weekend in Brighton!), to show interconnecting leads. And I have now bought a hydrometer and a UNI-T ut203 multimeter..........

 

The battery supplier will be looking at the batteries next week; they suggest the charger might have been 'turned down' (by Victron) too much, to compensate for the earlier overcharging

 

I agree I will probably need an 'expert report' (and recognise the danger of trying to fix the problem myself.) Any suggestions?

 

Bob

[Robbo]

Have I left anything out?

 

If your power hungry you can do a lot with only a 4Kw diesel genny and combi charger/inverter, you don't need to go overboard with a 7Kw unless you have something special in mind.

[PhilR]

Why not carry out this power audit buisiness that everyone keeps going on about for nearly or semi-knackered batteries instead of new ones,as with the killer punishment that people seem to need to give them these days new batteries are soon on the downhill path anyway and reach the semi-knackered state pretty quickly.

All this carry on about high powered boat electrical systems might be interesting and entertaining for the electrical enthusiasts who's hobby it is to be perpetually checking,examining,inspecting,monitoring,discussing,pondering over and pulling their hair out over their systems,and money is no object.But what about the folk with little electrical knowledge nor interest,that have heard that all these wonderful huge inverter chargers,big alternators,massive battery banks ect ect will power all their mains domestic appliances,look at all the trouble and heartache they're being led into,and are or would they be inclined to carry out this what seems to be ''around the clock monitoring and checking lark''.By all accounts the electrical experts and enthusiasts seem just as fascinated by it all as the non electrical thinking people it seems to me and thrive on it all,and the horrendous expense. He!he!he!

 

Good post - I agree.

 

Boating is much more fun (and cheaper) without fancy sophisticated electrics (IMHO).

 

But , I appreciate that many permanent live-aboards want to enjoy a few creature comforts. But if they expect to run similar appliances to someone living on the land it will probably cost a lot more, even with a land line. Batteries and charging/monitoring devices should be considered as consumable items, not investments.

 

I

[Robbo]

I couldn't agree more,but like other practical things,some non practical people just cannot grasp these things no matter how much swotting up they try to do and can't really cope with the simplest of simple one battery systems,why some can't or have never topped up their cars battery never mind checking and topping up 7 or 8 of them beneath a heavy and dangerous great lump of steel plate decking that most w/beam boats seem to have,and then contorting themselves into the shape of the letter ''S''so as to get at em. And all those terminals and battery lugs to be seen to down there in semi darkness.

 

Finding someone who asks you the right questions and suggests the right system for yourself is good for that type of person. There isn't that many options to be honest, perhaps a flow chart and simple spread sheet may be in order.

[Guest]

It comes back to the fact that you can't make your own leccy as cheaply or efficiently as buying from the grid. I used to see lots of attempts by different people to be self sufficient in their power needs, but they mostly found that power from the grid was cheapest.

 

I know two different people who quit living on narrowboats because of the horrendous price of generating their own leccy (no shore power in either case.)

 

Developments in solar and wind energy might change this in the future, but I won't hold my breath.