Up the Grand Union in drought

[LEO]

hi,

 

There are lots of very bored moorers on the GU around Tring, I am producing details of what to visit in the area - including Steam Fairs, Railway Museums, NT Houses and Walks, Midsommers tours, Farm museums, and lots more - the Chiltern Brewery is a must................as is Bletchley Park and the NMofC.

 

Send me a Pm if you want details.

 

The Guide is extra.........

 

Leo.

[giveitsomeoil]

I see no reason to close gates south of Winkwell after the river bulbourne is fed into the cut. Unless of course you know there are following boats or in short pounds not river fed! Unfortunatly 'boaters' these days are so wise to notice if a pound is river fed.

 

Most would probably not notice the flush of water coming down a pound inicating oncoming boats as the lock above is emptied.

 

How many boaters still practice in flights of locks, allowing the lock wheeler to empty the lock in front before filling the one that they are in, thus saving the water going over the by-wash and therefore being wasted!

 

As for Emu and Archimedes tying in cowroast lock. Well this is understandable as bringing a boat against the bank that is part loaded can be difficult when the pound is up, let alone when it is running low. Can you imagine the chaos it would have caused if they were made to reverse out of the way and get stuck, therefore having to flush water down from the already low summit, to get them free!!

 

Lack of understanding and common sense is the biggest waste of water and sadly a battle we are losing.

[debbifiggy]

I see no reason to close gates south of Winkwell after the river bulbourne is fed into the cut. Unless of course you know there are following boats or in short pounds not river fed! Unfortunatly 'boaters' these days are so wise to notice if a pound is river fed.

 

 

The Bulbourne is virtually dry from Dudswell to Winkwell. The Gade is low. The Chess is drying up. The Colne is low.

 

The canal may be river fed but if there's no water in the rivers there's no water for the canal. We should all therefore ensure we leave the leave empty locks empty and other locks have both sets of gates and all paddles closed and wait at locks if possible for a cruising partner IMHO.

 

D

[LEO]

The Bulbourne is virtually dry from Dudswell to Winkwell. The Gade is low. The Chess is drying up. The Colne is low.

 

The canal may be river fed but if there's no water in the rivers there's no water for the canal. We should all therefore ensure we leave the leave empty locks empty and other locks have both sets of gates and all paddles closed and wait at locks if possible for a cruising partner IMHO.

 

D

 

Dried up -- has been for some while. Misbourne is the same through Amersham.

 

loe

[Dominic M]

there are two sides to every story, and i have just had the other straight from the owners themselves paints a different picture entirely!!

It was obvious the pound was low. They could have stayed back at the last lock which is only a short distance (600 yards possibly) and in full view. They could have used their boarding planks like the good old days. They could have reversed out of the lock in the morning and taken their turn.

 

Just to get things straight, the boat that followed them up did not say that they had left the paddles up, but did say that all the gates were open. Yes, one might swing back, they do. Not both to fully open at every lock however. Perhaps the man who told me this was making it up, but I can't see why he would. And interestingly someone who read this topic last night approached me at Stoke Bruerne this morning, and told me that they had caused havoc all the way along, and that she had complained to BW to be told that the amount of complaints already received comprised a fat folder full. I don't generally mind gates being left open with paddles closed - there are good arguments for it. But this is a serious drought and anything we can do to reduce possible water loss must be done.

 

I'm sorry, but they did not have any excuse for jumping the queue whatsoever.

[Dominic M]

If everyone moved as much as they were supposed to, my boat would be permanently aground. More than half a dozen lockings a day and im on the bottom!

A friend of mine has just decided to cc. In London. She asked my advice, but also spoke to some of the ccers who told her it's ok to do. Ive explained wht being a continuous cruiser means, why deciding to cc when the canal and river trust takes over might not be wise, how busy it is, etc. What she really wants is a mooring, near us, but of course there arent any available. I suggested she needs to take a longer term view (it took us over 6 months to get a boat and a mooring), but she doesnt want to wait, what can you do? She has never boated but at least we are taking her out over Easter on ours to learn the basics. She asked me if moving between Camden and Hackney would be ok, I suggested she might want to see how big those moorings were and to read the signs at the moorings as many of them are 7 days in any one year. Thing is, everyone wants to live in Camden and Hackney but hundreds of boats into a handful of mooring spots won't go. The way I see it, unless the canals are policed the same as roads in London, people will do what THEY want to do. There are even more people living in vans and campers in London but you dont even know they are there - they move every day. Anyway, my friend is self employed like me and a I've said before, housing options for us are limited, because we cant provide proof of a regular income, commercial landlords arent interested. They can cherry pick the safest salaried tenants. The last flat we had was £800 a month and rat infested, the mould was so bad I ended up on lots of evil steroids for my asthma. Rentals have gone up since then. We're on the canal for the same reasons as the ccers. We need to be in London for work, but we cant find anything on land that we can afford that isn't disgusting, or we have to get a room in a shared house, as if we were students, at our age.

And meanwhile, Haringey council continues to make me despair. My link

I understand that London living is expensive and rents are high. Does that mean the canal should therefore bear the brunt of this problem? I don't think it should. If you took the same approach and hordes of people started moving into motorhome and caravans on Hampstead Heath or Hyde Park, that argument would hold no water with the authorities and the people would be forced to move on.

[Chris Pink]

But but Dominic, where have you been?

 

There's a huge swage of people who can't afford to live on houses. Not houses where there's work to pay for it. There's people living anywhere, in anything. It's the law of physics.

 

Including the parks of London. They always have.

 

And you want to tax them?

 

You haven't thought this through, have you?

[Higgs]

 

How many boaters still practice in flights of locks, allowing the lock wheeler to empty the lock in front before filling the one that they are in, thus saving the water going over the by-wash and therefore being wasted!

 

 

Hope I'm not being too contentious here, but in short pounds this can lead to water overflowing the gates of the lock you are in and spilling onto your boat. This happened to me at the locks, before Knowle, and I've had second thoughts about it ever since.

[Steilsteven]

I see no reason to close gates south of Winkwell after the river bulbourne is fed into the cut. Unless of course you know there are following boats or in short pounds not river fed! Unfortunatly 'boaters' these days are so wise to notice if a pound is river fed.

 

Most would probably not notice the flush of water coming down a pound inicating oncoming boats as the lock above is emptied.

 

How many boaters still practice in flights of locks, allowing the lock wheeler to empty the lock in front before filling the one that they are in, thus saving the water going over the by-wash and therefore being wasted!

 

.

 

Surely, you mean filling the lock you're in before emptying the the next one up or ( when going downhill )filling the next one down before emptying the one you're in.

 

Keith

[Lady Muck]

If you took the same approach and hordes of people started moving into motorhome and caravans on Hampstead Heath or Hyde Park, that argument would hold no water with the authorities and the people would be forced to move on.

Well there are already hundreds of live-in vehicles in London, moving every day, way more than there are ccers, but there are more roads than there are canals, so unless you know what you are looking for, you will miss them. They are very much under the radar, you will never see anything in the media about them. I only know how many there are because some friends do it. It takes one to know one.

As for council tax, I think you'd find the majority of London ccers would welcome it, living as they do in a no mans land where it's awkward voting getting a doctor or even a library card.

 

As Chris says we all got to live somewhere, until our government seriously sorts things out and we start seeing homes as homes again and not as investments, until we get better tenancy rights and regulation in the private sector, (I'm thinking fixed rents and proper long term agreements like in Germany), it will continue to get worse, far worse. If they ban squatting as well, then expect even more boaters, you're not exactly going to be able to provide a landlord with a reference if you've been squatting for years.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Lady Muck

[Dominic M]

But but Dominic, where have you been?

 

There's a huge swage of people who can't afford to live on houses. Not houses where there's work to pay for it. There's people living anywhere, in anything. It's the law of physics.

 

Including the parks of London. They always have.

 

And you want to tax them?

 

You haven't thought this through, have you?

No, I haven't thought it through at all. It's my George Osborne VAT on hot food moment. I can't argue over that with you, because you are right.

 

However, if your boat catches fire, you will call the fire brigade. If your boat is broken into, you will probably call the police. If you look at a council tax bill, you will notice that a substantial part of it is to fund the local police force and the fire brigade, which you are not paying a penny for. Is that fair or right? I don't think so. Most of the boats moored up on the towpath in Greater London remain in Greater London. They use the facilities. Many have jobs and can certainly pay that tax, like everyone else. I don't know how you do it or police it, but it seems fair to me that the contribution most others make should fall on the shoulders of these people too.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Dominic M

[tug-major]

I’ve just moved a boat from the Slough Arm (Packet Boat Marina) to Stowe Hill (nearly). It’s been 15 years since I cruised the Grand Union along this length. The big issue - the drought. Climbing up the many locks to the Tring summit I was struck by how many boats are now anchored to the towpath. With a few gaps in between, it was relentless towpath mooring. I have no objection to this in principle, but in places such as Rickmansworth, boat owners had taken over the towpath, littering it with junk. Well we can all chat on here about thinks and we get some where but I don't like this name and shame think well we got a lot to say to all the post on here yea and there is 2 side to this all and yes I am on one of the boats !!! Bye the way last satday we was not on the move so don't no how it was us ------ that worry yea

 

Tring summit was closed until 10am Monday morning, but all the way up we encountered locks with both gates left open wide, and paddles not closed down. The abiding impression was one of some people who care not a toss about the need to save water, and who live on the canal as a means of accommodation, and nothing more. How different from 20 years ago.

 

On the Sunday evening at Tring summit, we found several boats waiting to get through the following morning at the 10am kick off. At dusk, up turned Archimedes and Emu, on their way to the Droitwich Festival. They drove straight into the lock, and parked up overnight. Needless to say, this caused some ill feeling with every other boat waiting there. They had departed every lock below the summit leaving the gates wide open, according to another boat that had followed them up. Whilst it was true that the pound just below the top lock was low and these boats deep in the water, they could have moored up and waited their turn, using planks to get ashore.

 

Delayed by the “working” boats, (and I was working) we managed to get away by 11:00 and made Leighton Buzzard by the evening.

 

Onward the next day through Milton Keynes, another part of the canal now littered with towpath moorers. Here the friendliness encountered so far turned to unpleasantness. Chugging past one boat in MK a fat man armed with a can of beer yelled, “Are you in a hurry?” We were not going fast. Shortly afterwards, also in MK, another shouted a similar question. Some distance from any road, they had a whirly washing thingy and a motorbike on the towpath. I had to say to them, “If you don’t like the canal, pay for a mooring in a marina.” He yelled back, and the engine on this boat was quite loud, “I’m going to report you to VW!” So that’s me excluded from buying a new Polo then. Apparently it’s not OK to cruise on that bit of the Grand Union, but it is fine to ride a motorbike on the towpath. Slobs.

 

Finally arrived at Stoke Bruerne bottom lock, and that was it. Shut until 10:00 tomorrow.

 

A fantastic voyage, a great reminiscence, but I am amazed at how once empty stretches of canal are now linear moorings, and it is of no surprise to me that people using the canal to cruise give up slowing down past moored boats. Why should they? Is the canal a cruiseway, or a housing estate?

[Ange]

It's beginning to sound like 1976 all over again.

 

In the drought of that year, there were always long queues for the locks (up to 3 days at popular flights) and all sorts of boats would invent excuses for trying to go straight past the queues. "We're working" was commonly heard from many boats as a valid reason for queue-jumping, including:

• any unconverted working boat whether working or not - especially if it was on the way to an "event"
• any boat that was carrying passengers - including one particular council-run pair who carried "underprivileged children" on one-week holidays
• hire boats steered by an employee of the boatyard who had been sent out for half an hour for the specific purpose of jumping the queue

I'm sure there'll be plenty of additions to the list this year.

 

Is why we're heading north this year! Tis a shame because there's southern places we wanted to explore this year after spending the last two years in the North. Hey ho, never mind, I actually miss the pies, the barms and the warm welcome oop north.

 

 

 

The benefits of a small boat

 

It seems that our biggest problem this year wont be a water shortage but excessive weed growth, again. We are going to have to replan at least a couple of our holidays to take account of the Witham being out of bounds

 

The coast is looking like a much better prospect this year

 

Yep - there's the problem of all the "narrowboatists" heading your way this year!!

[Tonka]

Not that long ago Dominic had a thread going stating that the canal should be used for housing. Now he has his wish but on his canal so is now complaining. He should become an MP. Bw and the councils need to get strong and remove the blight, and if the current laws state that they can not, get new regulations written into the new trust agreement to ensure that they can.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Is why we're heading north this year! Tis a shame because there's southern places we wanted to explore this year after spending the last two years in the North. Hey ho, never mind, I actually miss the pies, the barms and the warm welcome oop north.

 

Yep - there's the problem of all the "narrowboatists" heading your way this year!!

 

Hey, are we in for an invasion?! I'm very, very glad I managed my Sothern expedition last year, and was looking for a quiet summer on relatively peaceful Northern waters. Is there a 'smug' smiley?

[WJM]

The Bulbourne is virtually dry from Dudswell to Winkwell. The Gade is low. The Chess is drying up. The Colne is low.

 

The canal may be river fed but if there's no water in the rivers there's no water for the canal. We should all therefore ensure we leave the leave empty locks empty and other locks have both sets of gates and all paddles closed and wait at locks if possible for a cruising partner IMHO.

 

D

 

 

I am a bit puzzled - the Basin above Brentford Gauging locks was half empty yesterday - not sure why, something must have been opened accidentally. It is a big basin with a long pound above it so I figured it would take a long time to refill. There is virtually no flow on the River Brent (which feeds this level) but somehow it was filled back up this morning! Where did all that water come from?

[Dominic M]

Not that long ago Dominic had a thread going stating that the canal should be used for housing. Now he has his wish but on his canal so is now complaining. He should become an MP. Bw and the councils need to get strong and remove the blight, and if the current laws state that they can not, get new regulations written into the new trust agreement to ensure that they can.

I did? I don't think so. I have every sympathy with the idea that local authorities should allow the creation of residential moorings within marinas and possibly some on line sites. That would then provide the basis for some regulatory framework. The housing minister, Grant Schapps, has expressed the same wish. I don't think I've ever expressed wholehearted support for the free-for-all that goes on in London, and some other areas.

 

I don't think any current laws prevent BW from dealing with the problem. They have the right to refuse to license a boat.

 

Oh, and I last ate a pasty two weeks ago, from the Cornish Pasty shop in Banbury Market Square.

[Chris Pink]

The Bulbourne is virtually dry from Dudswell to Winkwell. The Gade is low. The Chess is drying up. The Colne is low.

 

The canal may be river fed but if there's no water in the rivers there's no water for the canal. We should all therefore ensure we leave the leave empty locks empty and other locks have both sets of gates and all paddles closed and wait at locks if possible for a cruising partner IMHO.

 

D

 

So,speaking for BW, does that mean someone is going to come along and adjust the gates so they stay closed? Or is this just empty parroting of the corporate lines.

 

I speak as someone who often boats single handed and I hate it when the gates won't stay closed.

 

 

 

I don't think any current laws prevent BW from dealing with the problem. They have the right to refuse to license a boat.

 

 

No, they don't. They can refuse consent only if certain conditions are met.

[mykaskin]

The added boats moored between Willowtree and Cowroast over the last 10 years adds around an extra 2 hours to the journey. Not a lot I agree, but it all adds up. IIRC the boats moored between Weedon and Leighton adds an extra hour to the journey.

 

Closing gates is often impossible when going up on the GU as you can't motor away without blowing them open again. Some won't even close in the first place, the other gate blowing open as you shut the other. I do usually have good luck with closing the bottom gates however. I've once spent several minutes trying to get the top gates to close on the Buckby flight because I know the lock had a bad leak on the bottom gates - the flow was just not quite great enough to pull the gates shut, so had to stand in the middle and hold them together for 30 seconds.

 

Certainly below Apsley if the locks leak so badly as to affect the river water there, then they are faulty and need repairing. The water from the rivers further up is much reduced these days, probably thanks to water removal by water companies I wouldn't doubt.

 

While going in front of a queue of boats waiting at a lock isn't best practice, if it isn't obvious which boats are moored and which are waiting it's a little hard, especially since deeper boats can't always get to the edge. Walking 7 foot of plank is not always safe or possible. They were lucky to get into the lock to be fair, as there is a bad scour below the lock at now usual water levels for that pound.

 

Nobody else seemed to be heading as far that day as the boats concerned, so surely you shouldn't be bothered by being delayed by someone wanting to get further. The boats concerned travelled up Stoke Bruerne flight the next day, and the following up Buckby and back down Braunston and beyond. The closures were going to add at least 2 days extra travel to the journey time they would normally manage, and possibly more if they wanted to really 'get ahead'.

 

Mike

 

BTW - I think Lawrence got a little mixed up, of course you work ahead going down, getting the next lock down filling before emptying the upper lock. You do the same going up - fill the lower lock before emptying the upper lock.

[Hyperion 53]

I shall keep my reply short as I don't usually get tangled up in these pointless discussions that seem to be dragged on forever and get completely blown out of proportion.

 

I know the owners/operators of both boats very well and I know that they both have incredible respect for the canal system. The boats are presented in as near original condition as possible and are a credit to the people who own/operate them. Given every possible opportunity; I know for a fact, the people involved would (and do) help other boaters as much as possible and this includes closing gates.

 

As has already been pointed out in this thread it can be immensely annoying after making the effort to shut gates, that they simply blow open with the movement of water. These boats are deep draughted boats that turn a large propeller and it's obvious that they will disturb objects that are suspended in the water.

 

How is anyone supposed to know that boats are queuing for a lock 1) when the occupants of the boat sit and watch you sail by and 2) when there are no boats tied on the stumps immediately prior to the entrance to the lock? On the road: surely you would over-take a car that has stopped a hundred foot before a set of traffic lights, parked agains the kurb with it’s engine off? Maybe I'm wrong but I don’t see the difference!

 

I must say that I am glad that neither boat involved is under the control or ownership of my company, as the businessman who has been "naming and shaming" on this forum would be receiving a letter from my solicitor. It's not professional and it is breaking the law. I'm sure that we could all slag other "businessmen" off for how they run their businesses or how their staff go about their daily work, but if you have a problem speak to the person(s) involved instead of broadcasting all over the world.

 

I personally shall be writing a letter of complaint to the administrators on this forum as I believe that some of the comments made within this thread are in breach of the membership conditions.

 

Stick with what you do best, and that’s obviously not boating!

 

Regards,

[J R ALSOP]

Well said that man, I will buy you a drink next time I see you.

[Doorman]

I fear it is far too late to bring back the birch - now what does the sardonic smiley look like? is it this one?

 

Ouch..!

 

Surely not and provoke all of the Human Rights whimps into action.

 

It would be very interesting to compare the crime rates on the Isle of Man since corporal punishment was abolished. The new world method of patting the scrotes on the head and pleading with them not to be naughty again has failed miserably!

[Doorman]

Forgot to say, please see link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pyrotronicdisintegrator.gif

If only

 

Can it be legally used on city slickers who hire boats and feel the need to use their Ipads whilst at the tiller? If so, I want one.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Doorman

[bargeeboy]

They are now approaching Kings Norton.

Bet they did not hold anybody up and iI would not bet against the 2nd lock of boats the other morning were still tied up when they vacated to lock !

[Doorman]

 

There's a huge swage of people who can't afford to live on houses. It's the law of physics.

 

You haven't thought this through, have you?

 

Who hasn't?

 

I for one couldn't afford to live on a house, not with my sense of balance anyway!

 

You were right about the law of physics though, what goes up, must come down!