Boat Shares/Syndicate

[Nightwatch]

Hello

 

The Landlord/Tenant/Manager of my local pub is into Narrowboat holidays. Mentioned every time I go in for a couple of pints. We have talked of him borrowing our boat for a break but this has never been finalised for one reason or another.

 

he is now 'keen' to enter a boat share scheme. My advice initially was for him to be careful and be very aware of what was expected of him in terms of maintenance costs, moorings and other possible hidden unknowns.

 

I have also mentioned a number of schemes (for want of another term) have gone t#ts up over the recent past.

 

Right, back to why I am starting this thread.

 

Any advice/recommendations/warnings? Are they value for money. Are there companies/individuals worse or better than others?

 

Welcome any constructive comments for or against.

 

 

Martyn

Edited November 30, 2011 by Nightwatch

[Cheshire cat]

The company schemes all involve paying management fees which can be anywhere from £300 - £400 per shareholder per year. Private schemes don't have to worry about that particular cost but they do need someone to manage communications, money and suppliers of services.

 

Compared with owning your own boat the obvious downside is you can't suddenly decide to go out for the weekend because the weather forecast is nice. If you are a landlord of a pub that particular option is unlikely to be an option even if you own your own boat. You also have to be prepared to go with majority decisions and be prepared to flex a little.

 

If you have to work for a living and you have interests other than boats then sharing is quite a good option. I contribute around £1500 - £1800 towards the upkeep of our boat and for that I am entitled to eight weeks on board. I won't use them all because I have to work but even so compared with hiring it is a great way of getting out on the water.

 

Andy

[churchward]

Before buying our own boat we did join a boat share. This was with the share management company Ownerships which are no more. Leaving aside the ins and out of the actions of the head of that company I would say the experience of sharing a boat and taking holidays on it was a positive one.

 

There are upsides and downsides of course.

 

On the upside I think that it is one of the cheapest ways of getting afloat compared to renting as long as you make as much use of the boast as possible. So if you are thinking of ways to have 4 weeks or more holiday a year on a boat then it is worth it. If you will only take a weeks holiday then it is probably better just renting. Another is that you have a an asset in your share that will have a value if you decide to sell your share. We sold on our share in a boat for not much less than we bought it for and that was 3 years after we bought it. It can be fun to share with the other owners and you may make some new friends that way. All costs of running the boat is shared so even quite big bills don't come as too much of a financial blow.

 

On the downside any system of booking or rota isn't going to suit everyone and you can't just decide on a whim to use the boat. Although costs are shared it can be quite expensive to maintain a boat that is used for at least 3 quarters of the year constant use. The engine alone will require several services and things will wear out faster. However costs can be minimised if the owners are prepared to do some of the work them selves rather than pay professionals all the time. If the other boat owners are strangers to you then they may not be the kind of people you will get on with and in anycase you are not that likely to get 12 share owners to agree on everything all the time.

 

Apart from the purchase of the share I would say typically it will cost £1000 to £1800 per year on maintenance and management fees. less if the boat share syndicate manages itself and does some of the maintenance itself.

 

Good luck it can be a very good way of getting several weeks holiday on a boat.

[Westyman]

I will soon have a 4 week and a 2 week share for sale on a 3 year old 58 footer as we head to having our own boat.

 

It has been a good interim between hiring and buying.

[Alway Swilby]

We are very glad we went for a shared boat. We couldn't afford the financial outlay for our own boat and it's about half the price of renting. It does become "our" boat while we are on it. One day we will follow Westyman and buy our own. (I've followed his blogs enough and I suspect he has mine too).

I think the market for new shared boats has settled down now since the upsets of Ownerships and Challenger. We bought ours from Carefree Cruising, they do the management and maintenance too. We've no complaints.

[Guest]

I've never understood the point of 'em sorry...

 

just hire a boat when you want one OR buy one...and use it when ever you want to.

 

ed to add..

 

eg we just made a spontaneous decision to come to our/a boat this week to celebrate a family birthday now we could have done that if we'd hired or owned....don't think that would have been as easy with a 'time share' boat...

Edited November 30, 2011 by MJG

[Nightwatch]

Good to hear all the positives. and some negatives.

 

I have introduced 'the pub landlord' to CWDF but he hasn't joined as yet, I don't think.

 

The maintenance charges seem high. £1000-1800 per annum. Times that by,say, 8 sharers and that,s a lot of money.

 

Just seen Martin's post. I have to admit that for me it's a no no, however it's courses for horses I suppose. if we were all the same....etc. etc.

 

Martyn

Edited November 30, 2011 by Nightwatch

[ditchcrawler]

I support what Churchwarden said.

 

We had a share, it cost us about the same as much as a two weeks hire, but we had a boat of a much higher standard and 3.5 weeks use.

 

There are some well run private syndicates out there now, mostly ex Ownership who had been in the share scheme for some years so lots of experience. Talking to one of two their yearly outgoings are about half of a commercial run boat.

Before you buy in you can look for a rotor system that suites you.

[Guest]

Good to hear all the positives. and some negatives.

 

I have introduced 'the pub landlord' to CWDF but he hasn't joined as yet, I don't think.

 

The maintenance charges seem high. £1000-1800 per annum. Times that by,say, 8 sharers and that,s a lot of money.

 

Martyn

 

8 grand a year minimum to run a narrowboat - that can't be right surely - some one is having a giraffe...

 

I'd rather get on the water with something much more affordable that I actually owned and not paid 'rent' for...

[ditchcrawler]

8 grand a year minimum to run a narrowboat - that can't be right surely - some one is having a giraffe...

 

I'd rather get on the water with something much more affordable that I actually owned and not paid 'rent' for...

The management company is making a living, some owners want their boats cleaned for them between trips.Some of them look to having new batteries every year. Some owners look upon them as snobbish hire boats. (I'm not a hirer, I own a bit of it)

A privately run syndicate can run at a lot less than that, especially if they are all "boat owners"

I have seen some with 12 members that pay £1000 each per year.

 

Out of interest what do you think your boat is costing a year?

[Richard T]

£4200 per year to run our elderly 54ft shared boat plus the cost of fuel used. Remember that maintenance costs are higher for a shared boat because of the number of hours done per year - we do an engine service every 5weeks or so including oil and fuel filetr changing. It works for us we use the boat about 30 nights per year out of a possible 70 available to us.

[Guest]

The management company is making a living, some owners want their boats cleaned for them between trips.Some of them look to having new batteries every year. Some owners look upon them as snobbish hire boats. (I'm not a hirer, I own a bit of it)

A privately run syndicate can run at a lot less than that, especially if they are all "boat owners"

I have seen some with 12 members that pay £1000 each per year.

 

Out of interest what do you think your boat is costing a year?

 

Does that £1000 include the buying of the share...

 

Clearly I pay more than £1000 pa but I get to use it whenever I want and defo. more than a month ....and I don't need to pay a management company to look after it.

 

£4200 per year to run our elderly 54ft shared boat plus the cost of fuel used. Remember that maintenance costs are higher for a shared boat because of the number of hours done per year - we do an engine service every 5weeks or so including oil and fuel filetr changing. It works for us we use the boat about 30 nights per year out of a possible 70 available to us.

 

Sorry Richard but you could hire some really nice boats for 30 days for less than that which in some cases will include fuel and gas used and it often wouldn't be 'elderly' either....

 

and you could pick the days you wanted to hire too....not be subject to a 'rota'....

[Westyman]

Part of the annual costs include a rather poorly named "sinking fund" a pot of cash to cope with high cost items in the future. And yes, the boats do get a lot of use, probably more than hire boats do.

The nice part is returning to an old friend when it's your week.

When we went into it originally, it was cheaper than owning and we got a new boat that we no way could afford at the time.

It's not a perfect system but has suited us for 4 years (we bought into and sold a share after one year to move away from school holiday weeks).

[Guest]

Part of the annual costs include a rather poorly named "sinking fund" a pot of cash to cope with high cost items in the future. And yes, the boats do get a lot of use, probably more than hire boats do.

The nice part is returning to an old friend when it's your week.

When we went into it originally, it was cheaper than owning and we got a new boat that we no way could afford at the time.

It's not a perfect system but has suited us for 4 years (we bought into and sold a share after one year to move away from school holiday weeks).

 

It's a nice sentiment - and we have had the same feeling when returning to the same hire boat we have used before but at the end of the day it's a 'hire boat' all be it one limited to a group of folk who can 'hire' it, nowt wrong with that at all...until they start sub letting their share to families and friends -

 

how is that managed??

[Richard T]

 

 

 

Sorry Richard but you could hire some really nice boats for 30 days for less than that which in some cases will include fuel and gas used and it often wouldn't be 'elderly' either....

 

and you could pick the days you wanted to hire too....not be subject to a 'rota'....

 

You miss understand me the total running cost for the boat per year is £4200, my share is less than one weeks hire at peak rates and two weeks off peak. So is good value to me.

 

We also can normally agree weeks which when we want to use the boat. Also an advantage over private ownership is that the boat has travelled much of the system without having to leave it unattended or pay marina charges.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Richard T

[Guest]

You miss understand me the total running cost for the boat per year is £4200, my share is less than one weeks hire at peak rates and two weeks off peak. So is good value to me.

 

I don't believe I do....mine is about the same I reckon but I can use my boat whenever I want...even taking into account the depreciation on a boat I own.

 

At the end of the day it's not for me but you guys seem to have found a way to boat that suits you...

[haggis]

For folk who live near or within a short travelling distance of a canal, sharing a boat is probably not as attractive as it is to those of us who live hundreds of miles away. When you have to travel for half a day to get to your boat, impulse trips are probably less frequent and to maintain the boat you either have to pay someone else to do it for you or you spend all your time on board doing maintenance. We have had a share in the same boat for almost 20 years and it works well for us. We get 6 weeks boating for less than it would probably cost to hire for a week. OK, she is not this years model but she has everything which we and the other 4 couples who own her, need for a good boating holiday.

 

haggis

[Mac of Cygnet]

I don't believe I do....mine is about the same I reckon but I can use my boat whenever I want...even taking into account the depreciation on a boat I own.

 

At the end of the day it's not for me but you guys seem to have found a way to boat that suits you...

 

I think you are still misunderstanding Richard. He doesn't say how many people share the boat, but if he is entitled to 70 nights per year, then I would guess at five. So £4200/5 = £840. This is quite a bargain for up to 70 days cruising.

 

I'm glad we moved from hiring to shared ownership (and glad I sold out and bought my own boat before the Ownerships shambles!), and think it is a perfectly good way of getting on the water. The other owners are crucial. I believe some syndicates actually interview prospective sharers. Not sure I would like that - shades of Groucho Marx "I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member!"

[churchward]

Good to hear all the positives. and some negatives.

 

I have introduced 'the pub landlord' to CWDF but he hasn't joined as yet, I don't think.

 

The maintenance charges seem high. £1000-1800 per annum. Times that by,say, 8 sharers and that,s a lot of money.

 

Just seen Martin's post. I have to admit that for me it's a no no, however it's courses for horses I suppose. if we were all the same....etc. etc.

 

Martyn

Yes it is a lot of money but considering that a well used share boat will be in use for 40-45 plus weeks out of 52 in the year ie more than a hire boat then it is going to take a lot of money to maintain it particularly if you always employ professionals to do it. The management company if used will charge something like £300-£500 to oversee all that needs to be done. So if the syndicate dispenses with that and does some of the work amongst the shareholders it can be much cheaper. You do need to put some money aside to cope with emergencies and unexpected failures. With the kind of constant use an engine may only last a few years before it is more economic to replace at the very least things like gearboxes will give up and need to be renewed.

 

We enjoyed the share boat we had the facts speak for themselves that in our experience it was much cheaper (near a half of the cost) to go the share route over the time than to pay to hire 4 weeks a year and one year we had 5 or 6 weeks on the boat. However, having said that I did find disagreement amongst the shareholders a pain. At times it was like getting people to all agree to something on here

 

Buying our own boat was great and the simple joy of going to the boat as often and whenever we please doesn't wear off.

[adam1uk]

We had a great few years with a shared boat. We used to pay around £1000 a year for four weeks, and we normally managed to get a couple of extra weeks on top of that. Hiring for that amount of time would cost a fortune. Even when you take the cost of buying the share into account it's still good value for money, because you get a good proportion of the money back when you sell the share on.

 

It's particularly great for people who want regular boating holidays but don't have the time to use a boat of their own, and for those who aren't interested or knowlegable enough to do their own maintenence: everything is looked after for you, and there's someone on the end of the phone who will sort things out when they go wrong.

 

Having said that, it's great to have our own boat now; but boat ownership isn't for everyone, and sharing is much much cheaper than hiring.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

We had a great few years with a shared boat. We used to pay around £1000 a year for four weeks, and we normally managed to get a couple of extra weeks on top of that. Hiring for that amount of time would cost a fortune. Even when you take the cost of buying the share into account it's still good value for money, because you get a good proportion of the money back when you sell the share on.

 

It's particularly great for people who want regular boating holidays but don't have the time to use a boat of their own, and for those who aren't interested or knowlegable enough to do their own maintenence: everything is looked after for you, and there's someone on the end of the phone who will sort things out when they go wrong.

 

Having said that, it's great to have our own boat now; but boat ownership isn't for everyone, and sharing is much much cheaper than hiring.

 

Adam has it right. For many shared ownership bridges the high cost of hiring and the even higher cost of sole ownerships.

[Billw]

I agree with Haggis, a shared boat is ideal for those who live many miles from where the boat is based.

 

As well as the cost savings over having a soley owned boat, I wouldnt want a couple of 10 hour round trips each year just to check on a boat when it's frozen in.

 

There are downsides of course, because in any group of owners different things will have priority. The upside is that in any group there will be individuals with particular skills or knowledge.

 

For anyone using a boat for over 2 weeks per year it's cheaper than hiring, though of course hiring does give a greater choice of venue.

 

The whole question is a matter of horses for courses, with different needs being met by different solutions.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Billw

[AlanH]

Another disadventage is that you can't keep loads of your personal stuff on the boat. If we go to the boat for a weekend we take some milk and that is all. We don't have to pack clothes, food, towels, dog food, tools, etc.

 

This is a minor inconvenience but should be considered.

[ditchcrawler]

Another disadventage is that you can't keep loads of your personal stuff on the boat. If we go to the boat for a weekend we take some milk and that is all. We don't have to pack clothes, food, towels, dog food, tools, etc.

 

This is a minor inconvenience but should be considered.

We now have our own boat and still take a car full of stuff every time we go. I can't work out why, it just happens.

[Guest]

There does seem to be huge variances in costs being talked about - if it does indeed come down as low as £800-£1000 per year for four weeks use that is stonkingly good value compared to hiring...