Bottom Blacking-safe for fish?

[jerrytug]

Hi folks,glad to see this forum is buzzing. I`m helping do up an old NB which will be a floating eco-garden project for local kids,on the R.Lee near the Olympics. Everything about the project must be greener than green,and today I was asked,isn`t bituminous bottom blacking bad for the fish etc? And I have checked a few paint data sheets on the web,and they all say things like `harmful to the aquatic environment` and so on,so out of the question. Has anyone come up against this issue and found a solution? Any suggestions welcome,doesn`t neccessarily need to be the cheapest. Thanks in advance regards Jerry

[journeyperson]

Hi folks,glad to see this forum is buzzing. I`m helping do up an old NB which will be a floating eco-garden project for local kids,on the R.Lee near the Olympics. Everything about the project must be greener than green,and today I was asked,isn`t bituminous bottom blacking bad for the fish etc? And I have checked a few paint data sheets on the web,and they all say things like `harmful to the aquatic environment` and so on,so out of the question. Has anyone come up against this issue and found a solution? Any suggestions welcome,doesn`t neccessarily need to be the cheapest. Thanks in advance regards Jerry

 

Well, Would you black your own bottom with bitumen? I don't think so; in which case you shouldn't black the fishes bottoms.

[Liam]

I got bitumen dust in my eyes recently when the boat was out of the water after rubbing the gunnels down, and was temporarily blinded.

 

It's nasty stuff but then again it's my own daft fault for not wearing any form of safety gear.

[MtB]

Well, Would you black your own bottom with bitumen? I don't think so; in which case you shouldn't black the fishes bottoms.

 

 

I thought one only blacked one's sides, not one's bottom.

 

Seriously though, I think the manufacturers HAVE to say it's harmful because if they said it was safe, some idiot would dump 25 gallons of the stuff in the cut, then be all surprised when some ducks got covered in it. Then they would use what the manufacturers said as a defence.

 

 

Cheers, Mike

[Timleech]

What they probably mean is that the liquid paint will be harmful if released into the water - in other words don't spill it in the river. Once fully set as a coating on the boat it's probably reasonably inert.

 

Tim

[carlt]

I got bitumen dust in my eyes recently when the boat was out of the water after rubbing the gunnels down, and was temporarily blinded.

I believe "Free goggles for fish!" was a promise, in the Green Party's election manifesto.

[Grace and Favour]

Hi folks,glad to see this forum is buzzing. I`m helping do up an old NB which will be a floating eco-garden project for local kids,on the R.Lee near the Olympics. Everything about the project must be greener than green,and today I was asked,isn`t bituminous bottom blacking bad for the fish etc? And I have checked a few paint data sheets on the web,and they all say things like `harmful to the aquatic environment` and so on,so out of the question. Has anyone come up against this issue and found a solution? Any suggestions welcome,doesn`t neccessarily need to be the cheapest. Thanks in advance regards Jerry

 

Great project you're working on . . . . full marks, Squire.

 

However - although I do not know the answer to your question - I do know that bitumen is derived from crude oil - - and is full of fairly unpleasant chemicals and heavy metals - though it has been used by man for thousands of years.

 

I suggest the best peeps to ask your question will be the Environment Agency - 'cos they know that they know everything - - assuming you find the right person in their organisation of course

[WotEver]

Interesting question.

 

A quick Google turned up this bitumen emulsion PDF from Shell which states that the product is non-toxic, unlikely to have any adverse effect on skin or eyes, and can be used "As a protective coating against corrosion of pipes, structural steelwork and other metallic equipment"

 

So I'd assume from that (yes, I know assumption is a dangerous thing) that it would also be harmless to aquatic life. I guess you could ask them, there are plenty of email addresses at the bottom of the document.

 

Tony

[Grace and Favour]

Interesting question.

 

A quick Google turned up this bitumen emulsion PDF from Shell which states that the product is non-toxic, unlikely to have any adverse effect on skin or eyes, and can be used "As a protective coating against corrosion of pipes, structural steelwork and other metallic equipment"

 

So I'd assume from that (yes, I know assumption is a dangerous thing) that it would also be harmless to aquatic life. I guess you could ask them, there are plenty of email addresses at the bottom of the document.

 

Tony

Nice one, Tony - and as it's also recommended to line water tanks - it's not dangerous to hoomans (I assume!)

[bag 'o' bones]

Tar leaches naturally into the Coalport canal on a regular basis. The Ducks and fish don't seem to mind! I'm not sure how different Bitumen is from Tar however.

[magpie patrick]

I'd go with the idea that it is only harmful in its liquid form, especially when you look at the clotted drift thats grown up all around the blacking on my boat (which the fish and ducks then feed off)

 

Although it depends on how thorough you are being with the "green" bit. If the boat must simply be eco-friendly in the water then you're fine, if however every step of the way must be eco, then it may be more problematic.

[Water Rat.]

Judging by the size of the huge and rather robust fish that live under our boats here on the GU, whatever is on the bottoms of the boats does not seem to bother them at all.

[blackrose]

Hi folks,glad to see this forum is buzzing. I`m helping do up an old NB which will be a floating eco-garden project for local kids,on the R.Lee near the Olympics. Everything about the project must be greener than green,and today I was asked,isn`t bituminous bottom blacking bad for the fish etc? And I have checked a few paint data sheets on the web,and they all say things like `harmful to the aquatic environment` and so on,so out of the question. Has anyone come up against this issue and found a solution? Any suggestions welcome,doesn`t neccessarily need to be the cheapest. Thanks in advance regards Jerry

 

I agree with the others who say that the data sheet warnings pertain to bitumen in its liquid state.

 

However, if you really want to be 'green' and drive yourself mad then you'll have to delve a bit deeper and look at the methods used in manufacturing the paint including the environmental impacts stemming from the extraction of raw materials. That would go for everything else used in/on the boat too.

 

Unfortunately it's a complex area and most people just want the simple green feelgood factor.

Edited May 11, 2010 by blackrose

[cotswoldsman]

I am no expert but when my boat was pulled out of the water recently for painting (not blacking as it had only recently been blacked) below the water line had about 100 mussels living on it my point being that mussels dont seem to mind the blacking.

[nbfiresprite]

I believe "Free goggles for fish!" was a promise, in the Green Party's election manifesto.

 

Did not they also call for fuel duty to increase by 8 percent every year.

 

Firesprite

[Grace and Favour]

I am no expert but when my boat was pulled out of the water recently for painting (not blacking as it had only recently been blacked) below the water line had about 100 mussels living on it my point being that mussels dont seem to mind the blacking.

 

I serve mussels in white wine & garlic butter - - - - - - mind you - it's not as thick as bitumen - - maybe it's not an accurate comparison then . . . . . .

[cotswoldsman]

I serve mussels in white wine & garlic butter - - - - - - mind you - it's not as thick as bitumen - - maybe it's not an accurate comparison then . . . . . .

 

Put some flour in that should thicken it up!!

[DHutch]

What they probably mean is that the liquid paint will be harmful if released into the water - in other words don't spill it in the river. Once fully set as a coating on the boat it's probably reasonably inert.

 

Tim

I think thats it isnt it.

 

An epoxy blacking might be fractionally more inert, but quite possibly less eco to produce.

 

We use a one-pot vinyl underwater primmer from leighs paints on ours, but again, never really looked at the technical data for the cured product.

 

A decent number of people use blacking for there watertank so it cant be that bad and it!

 

 

Daniel

[The Anonymous Bard]

Judging by the size of the huge and rather robust fish that live under our boats here on the GU, whatever is on the bottoms of the boats does not seem to bother them at all.

 

I would have to second that after staying on my sisters boat at Wychnor in March.

 

The attached, which was caught right under the boat, did cause some concerns as to whether or not the chemical balance of fish was being affected by chemical pollutants in the water... closer inspection revealed a small tag which, when traced, revealed that the fish was an unwanted pet goldfish that was given its freedom only three weeks earlier...

 

http://img16.imageshack.us/i/image0118.jpg/

[Tony Brooks]

Interesting question.

 

A quick Google turned up this bitumen emulsion PDF from Shell which states that the product is non-toxic, unlikely to have any adverse effect on skin or eyes, and can be used "As a protective coating against corrosion of pipes, structural steelwork and other metallic equipment"

 

So I'd assume from that (yes, I know assumption is a dangerous thing) that it would also be harmless to aquatic life. I guess you could ask them, there are plenty of email addresses at the bottom of the document.

 

Tony

 

 

I hope it is otherwise we must have hundreds of very ill boaters with blacked, mild steel tanks. However I suspect many bitumen blackings have other things added too them.

[nb Innisfree]

Intertuf a bitumen based blacking by International Paints can be safely used on water tanks. We have used it for 5 years with no ill effects :lol: