Is it actually possible to steer a narrowboat when going astern ? ! ?

[NB Alnwick]

I've done that outside the Cafe at Hatton. What happens is that you push the bow onto some silt - unseen, then slide it further on by pivoting around the bow and using the boat as a lever with the engine at the back. Try to reverse and - nothing. I had managed to get more silt underneath and we had a real struggle to get off.

 

Richard

 

Naturally it was a sunny day and lots of people outside the cafe

 

But isn't that what we are there for? Providing entertainment for the Gongoozlers!

[Justin Smith]

I've done that outside the Cafe at Hatton. What happens is that you push the bow onto some silt - unseen, then slide it further on by pivoting around the bow and using the boat as a lever with the engine at the back. Try to reverse and - nothing. I had managed to get more silt underneath and we had a real struggle to get off.

 

Richard

 

Naturally it was a sunny day and lots of people outside the cafe

 

Sounds plausible, but I still think we might have got off if the boat had developed full power in reverse.

For some reason it didn`t, I assume the linkage from the throttle/gearbox control wasn`t adjusted correctly.

[RLWP]

Sounds plausible, but I still think we might have got off if the boat had developed full power in reverse.

For some reason it didn`t, I assume the linkage from the throttle/gearbox control wasn`t adjusted correctly.

 

The other culprit in a narrow channel when winding is something around the prop of course.

 

Anyway, It doesn't matter because like any true boater you triumphed over adversity and escaped, if feeling a little embarrassed.

 

Richard

 

That's boating!

[mykaskin]

He was travelling at a normal cruising speed!

 

When reversing back to Autherley Junction after the National, I was shouted at for going past the moored boats too fast! At one point where there were no moored boats I reached 4mph in reverse. I can confirm there is more stearage way by going fast, but once you "loose" the front end you end up having more problems quicker!!!

 

Mike

[polyhistor]

The secret to turning in a muddy winding hole is to move all the booze,crew and passengers to the bow before you make contact with the bottom then (after a suitable period of imbibing) politely ask them to return to the stern to watch the subtle ,smooth reverse/turn/forward action of the (sober ) helm!

[Justin Smith]

The secret to turning in a muddy winding hole is to move all the booze,crew and passengers to the bow before you make contact with the bottom then (after a suitable period of imbibing) politely ask them to return to the stern to watch the subtle ,smooth reverse/turn/forward action of the (sober ) helm!

 

Ah yes, very clever, lateral thinking, that`s what won us the war......

[polyhistor]

Sounds plausible, but I still think we might have got off if the boat had developed full power in reverse.

For some reason it didn`t, I assume the linkage from the throttle/gearbox control wasn`t adjusted correctly

 

I recently cast off slowly from a behind a row of moored boat only to see another boat approaching, so moved over to allow him passage and I hit a mound of silt. Losing steerage I increased the revs . but only managed to pull the nose round in front of the on coming craft. He slowed and I eventually levelled up. As he passed and I explained the problem he advised that reversing LIFTS the stern and may give a better responce from the propeller.

Made me think` that if the `nose` is stuck the greater reverse throttle -the more the `nose`digs in.

By then dropping the revs. the bow would rise leaving less grounding friction.

[Justin Smith]

Sounds plausible, but I still think we might have got off if the boat had developed full power in reverse.

For some reason it didn`t, I assume the linkage from the throttle/gearbox control wasn`t adjusted correctly

 

I recently cast off slowly from a behind a row of moored boat only to see another boat approaching, so moved over to allow him passage and I hit a mound of silt. Losing steerage I increased the revs . but only managed to pull the nose round in front of the on coming craft. He slowed and I eventually levelled up. As he passed and I explained the problem he advised that reversing LIFTS the stern and may give a better responce from the propeller.

Made me think` that if the `nose` is stuck the greater reverse throttle -the more the `nose`digs in.

By then dropping the revs. the bow would rise leaving less grounding friction.

 

Accelerating a car forwards transfers the weight to the rear wheels, and the same for railway locomotives, that`s why 4-6-0 engines tend to suffer less slippage than 4-6-2 (Pacifics). One assumes that the opposite would also apply.

The same principle may or may not apply to boats but reducing the revs will also reduce the rewards force. I mean if you exaggerate the effect then putting it on tickover would pull it straight off no problem !

Edited May 12, 2010 by Justin Smith

[NB Alnwick]

Accelerating a car forwards transfers the weight to the rear wheels, and the same for railway locomotives, that`s why 4-6-0 engines tend to suffer less slippage than 4-6-2 (Pacifics). One assumes that the opposite would also apply.

The same principle may or may not apply to boats but reducing the revs will also reduce the rewards force. I mean if you exaggerate the effect then putting it on tickover would pull it straight off no problem !

 

It is exactly the same with a boat - probably more so because the drive comes from a single point at one end. When going backwards the stern of the boat lifts and the bows settle which is why it is a bad idea to go aground when going astern! Trying to get off again by going forwards becomes very difficult because the propelling force just pushes the stern harder on to the bottom.

[Klanky]

Hi Folks, this is my first post.

 

Just to add my two pennoth':

 

'Sea anchors' are also called drogues, they range from the simple bucket on a rope (or a couple of large fenders or buoys work fairly well) through to some very neat fold-up fabric ones. The latter are available from decent yachtie chandlers.

Remember ensure the drogue line runs aft from a central point when being towed and to pay out as much as much line as you can on the towline - this increases the drogues efficiency and helps prevent a lot of yaw.

 

Also a drogue will help slow the boat down if it is being pushed by the wind (open sea), it won't have any effect in a big tide or river flow if the boat is drifting with the current as the drogue will be moving at the same speed as the boat through the water..no resistance = no slowing down.

 

'Prop walk' varies from boat to boat...as seen in this discussion. Most props are right-handed, so when going astern the prop will attempt to walk to the left. Some boats don't do it at all and some boats will go astern to port quite a bit.

 

Good forum.

[muddywaters]

Did that on the S&W and got told off by a tweedy lady on a hire boat who said "You should have a crew young man" - well experienced she stood with the paddle air hole right between her feet, I got the paddle up very quick and she got wet knickers!!

 

How about putting my converted Ricky motor Neptune in to forward, setting the revs and then joining my (ex) wife and parents up front for a drink whilst underway on the Severn south of Tewkesbury, steered the boat by moving on side or tuther!! elf and safty?

Only reverse twice apart from when winding that is.

First time was taking a hire boat back to shirecruisers at Sowerby Bridge and basically just lined the boat up opened the revs and got straight in first time with no need to steer.

And the second time was taking the boat back to Anglo Welsh at Trevor on the Llangollen this year.

got over the aqueduct winded and reversed in to the only space where we would not have to breast up as there where no other moving boats around, did have to steer and found the easiest way was to put it into forward to turn where I needed to go and could not steer in reverse.

But guess that could have been more to do with my lack of expertence going astern

[soldthehouse]

The big question....

 

Is it actually possible to steer a canal boat when going astern ?

If so how do you do it ?

Put a man at the helm

 

GOODNIGHT

Edited October 18, 2010 by soldthehouse

[jenlyn]

mines a bugger to reverse with the engine off, (must remember to start it in future)

[Phil Ambrose]

I spoke to a friend a few weeks ago that said what he does is to tie a bucket to a length or rope and tie the other end of the rope to the t stud on the bows, then put the boat into reverse and throw the bucket into the cut, the bucket shouldnt sink and it sorts of acts like a "drag" thingy which actually pulls the bows back in line, not sure if it works but he says so, anyone heard of this?

 

Nik

 

Similar effect can be obtained by chucking a mud weight off the bow (attached to a rope of course) keeps the bows straight.

 

Phil

[WotEver]

Similar effect can be obtained by chucking a mud weight off the bow (attached to a rope of course)

Ahh, so THAT'S what I did wrong...

 

Tony

[Martin Nicholas]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but you can tell if you are applying any "turn" because the tiller will be pulling on your arms as you move.

 

Using this feedback you can tell which tiller angle gives the biggest turning effort for any given speed (or boat).

[FadeToScarlet]

I managed to reverse the 500m from the waterpoint back onto my mooring last Sunday night, around the two small corners. Had two hairy moments that needed some forwards power to stop and get the bow under control, but didn't hit anything- came very close to one moored boat though!

 

I wonder what nav lights I need when going astern.....

 

The things I found:

 

when going slowly in reverse, prop walk is a problem. Whilst you can counteract this with the rudder, it was easier to go into higher revs- about 1,300rpm, with tickover at 700- which, with the rudder in the centre, kept the boat in a straight line.

 

By moving the rudder the opposite way of usual- and holding on tight!- it was possible to steer. Because of prop walk, my own boat steers very happily to the right when going astern, but is a pig to get to turn left. It was the lack of left turn that meant I nearly nudged a moored boat with the stern, as I was a little too close and couldn't turn away.

 

Putting on 30 or so degrees of rudder and then waiting was most effective. No more than 45, however.

 

Standing in the hatch (trad stern) was safest, out of the arc of the tiller.

 

I'm determined to try it again next time I go to the waterpoint- as long as it's less windy, and NOT during the day- it would REALLY confuse all the rowers to see a boat going backwards.....

Edited November 13, 2010 by FadeToScarlet

[Justin Smith]

By moving the rudder the opposite way of usual- and holding on tight!- it was possible to steer. Because of prop walk, my own boat steers very happily to the right when going astern, but is a pig to get to turn left.

 

When playing about with a couple of hire boats I also found they`d steer one way, but not the other, going astern obviously, or you`d have to hire them in a lake, and keep exploring the same lake, in the same direction......

[koukouvagia]

I managed to reverse the 500m from the waterpoint back onto my mooring last Sunday night, around the two small corners. Had two hairy moments that needed some forwards power to stop and get the bow under control, but didn't hit anything- came very close to one moored boat though!

 

OK so what's the record distance for going backwards? I've been the whole length of the Tring Summit in reverse. Mind you it was with the butty with a hydraulic drive in the ellum, which means the boat will go backwards as well as it does forwards.

Doesn't half confuse oncoming boats.

[Keeping Up]

Bryan Barnes (Aylesbury Canal Soc) boated "Seagull" backwards from Aylesbury to Marsworth for charity a few years back, and IIRC it went so well that he decided to carry on up to Bulbourne too!

 

Last summer I reversed for about a mile back towards Braunston from Nethercote Bridge (101) as far as Wolfhamcote winding hole. A couple of people who were moored told me off for going too fast!

 

(Edited for clarity)

Edited November 15, 2010 by Keeping Up

[Grace and Favour]

Bryan Barnes (Aylesbury Canal Soc) boated "Seagull" backwards from Aylesbury to Marsworth for charity a few years back, and IIRC it went so well that he decided to carry on up to Bulbourne too!

 

Last summer I reversed for about a mile back towards Braunston from Nethercote Bridge (101) as far as Wolfhamcote winding hole. A couple of people who were moored told me off for going too fast!

 

(Edited for clarity)

 

 

They were obviously 'backwoodsmen'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll get the coat shall I?

[Justin Smith]

Bryan Barnes (Aylesbury Canal Soc) boated "Seagull" backwards from Aylesbury to Marsworth for charity a few years back, and IIRC it went so well that he decided to carry on up to Bulbourne too!

 

Last summer I reversed for about a mile back towards Braunston from Nethercote Bridge (101) as far as Wolfhamcote winding hole. A couple of people who were moored told me off for going too fast!

 

(Edited for clarity)

 

Did you use any of the "tricks" mentioned in this thread (like a bucket on a rope) ?

Or is it just that your boat is more manoeuvrable (in reverse) than some appear to be ?

[Keeping Up]

Did you use any of the "tricks" mentioned in this thread (like a bucket on a rope) ?

Or is it just that your boat is more manoeuvrable (in reverse) than some appear to be ?

 

No the only "trick" I used is to have had the boat for a long time and know how it handles in reverse. Admittedly mine does handle rather better in reverse than most other boats I've known.

 

The main trick with mine is to have confidence; I have to travel reasonably fast in order to get any effective steering from the rudder at all. Then I must watch the bows all the time, with just an occasional quick glance in the direction I want to travel; the instant that the bows start to deviate, I must correct it immediately; if the correction is ineffective, an increase in throttle pulls the bow back towards straight ahead; conversely if I want it to swing, to go round a bend, I need to get it to start swinging and then reduce the throttle so the bow is effectively trying to overtake me, but increase throttle again before the swing becomes too great, rather like initiating or correcting understeer or oversteer on a front-wheel drive car. Eventually after a few corrections I may find that I really am going too fast (or have run out of throttle) in which case it is essential to act while the stern is in deep water by giving a lot of forward throttle with the tiller well over; leaving this until the stern is in the shallows at the edge will result in a solid grounding and probably jack-knifing across the cut.

 

In my mile of reversing I had to apply forward-throttle corrections just 3 times, once at the end of a corner and twice when having to manoeuvre around the sunken "Umbriel"

[FadeToScarlet]

OK so what's the record distance for going backwards? I've been the whole length of the Tring Summit in reverse. Mind you it was with the butty with a hydraulic drive in the ellum, which means the boat will go backwards as well as it does forwards.

Doesn't half confuse oncoming boats.

 

Is the record held by a BCN double-ended dayboat?

[RLWP]

Is the record held by a BCN double-ended dayboat?

 

Has a BCN double-ended day boat got a reverse direction?

 

Richard