Is it actually possible to steer a narrowboat when going astern ? ! ?

[jelunga]

I use a 25kg weight on the end of a line works a treat although it really need 2 people one on the front checking that it hasn't got caught up.

 

 

Called a "Sea anchor". Used at she when you want to stay as still as possible in a gale and all sails are reefed / in. It is constructed to form a hollow tapering cylinder, larger opening nearest the boat, small opening away from the boat with a longish cable / rope attaching it to the front of the boat. Holds the bow into the wind / waves etc. Also can be fitted with abladder of oil. Prick the bladder before deploying and it will stop all those large waves breaking into spray and flooding the boat. Can't see much use for the bladder of oil on the canals though!!

 

This should be a link to a picture of a sea anchor

[Justin Smith]

Just for the sake of the argument, if the boat was stationary in the middle of a stretch of still water and one put the tiller hard over, or even 45 degrees over, and engaged reverse gear, what should happen ?

[RLWP]

Have you started the engine?

 

Richard

[Laurence Hogg]

Just for the sake of the argument, if the boat was stationary in the middle of a stretch of still water and one put the tiller hard over, or even 45 degrees over, and engaged reverse gear, what should happen ?

 

Instead of asking all these questions why not take your boat out and find out? Not all narrowboats behave the same as stated in several answers already. the best way to know your craft is to go and find out how it behaves.

[mayalld]

I used to reverse ALTON regularly from Furness Vale to Bugsworth Junction

 

To where?!?!

 

Never heard it called Bugsworth Junction before. Surely you mean "Bridgemont Junction"

[Pluto]

I spoke to a friend a few weeks ago that said what he does is to tie a bucket to a length or rope and tie the other end of the rope to the t stud on the bows, then put the boat into reverse and throw the bucket into the cut, the bucket shouldnt sink and it sorts of acts like a "drag" thingy which actually pulls the bows back in line, not sure if it works but he says so, anyone heard of this?

 

Nik

I have used this method when towing an unsteered boat. It keeps the towed boat straight and stops it from catching you up when slowing down. I particular, I used it when towing a wide dumb boat with a wide motor boat where the dumb boat catching up can be a major problem. With wooden L&LC boats, it can result in damage to the prop if you are not careful. When moving two wide boats on my own, it was easier than breasting-up, which I also did on occasion. Good job the L&LC was not heavily used at the time!

[Athy]

I am not good at reversing, especially when I am on the boat. I have read and listened to advice from people more experienced than I am. One piece of advice which I read recently was "point the tiller in the direction that you want the boat to go". Armed with this knowledge I winded round near Claydon yesterday, went forwards then put the engine in reverse and pointed the tiller in the desired direction.

The boat headed in precisely the opposite direction.

Why? My boat is modern and from a reputable builder, and is in very good condition as far as I am aware. What am I doing wrong?

[Dovetail]

I am not good at reversing, especially when I am on the boat. I have read and listened to advice from people more experienced than I am. One piece of advice which I read recently was "point the tiller in the direction that you want the boat to go". Armed with this knowledge I winded round near Claydon yesterday, went forwards then put the engine in reverse and pointed the tiller in the desired direction.

The boat headed in precisely the opposite direction.

Why? My boat is modern and from a reputable builder, and is in very good condition as far as I am aware. What am I doing wrong?

 

 

You are not doing anything wrong its not easy a bit of flow in the water the wind direction makes a big difference. I fined that the boat has to be almost still in the water then I have a bit of control in reverse

[Athy]

Thanks for your encouraging comment - but the breeze was light and the nearest lock (Elkington's) was nearly a mile away, so I'm not sure where any water flow would have come from. Come to think of it, I'm not sure how far we were away from Claydon bottom lock - it was not visible from the winding hole.

I shall persevere.

[Keeping Up]

Thanks for your encouraging comment - but the breeze was light and the nearest lock (Elkington's) was nearly a mile away, so I'm not sure where any water flow would have come from. Come to think of it, I'm not sure how far we were away from Claydon bottom lock - it was not visible from the winding hole.

I shall persevere.

Keep trying. As well as wind and current, the other factor that is there to confuse you is that the stern will tend to be sucked towards the shallows. It is almost impossible to reverse properly if the water is not deep enough.

 

Another tip, don't put the tiller across too far. About 30 degrees is the maximum. When you are moving backwards at some speed, it is easy to feel this point because the pull on the tiller (which can be very strong, take care) starts to decrease if you apply more angle.

[Athy]

Keep trying. As well as wind and current, the other factor that is there to confuse you is that the stern will tend to be sucked towards the shallows. It is almost impossible to reverse properly if the water is not deep enough.

 

Another tip, don't put the tiller across too far. About 30 degrees is the maximum. When you are moving backwards at some speed, it is easy to feel this point because the pull on the tiller (which can be very strong, take care) starts to decrease if you apply more angle.

Thanks, KU; I did indeed avoid putting the tiller hard across, but your remark about shallow water may well be a clue - this is the South Oxford after all!

Earlier in the day I turned at Cropredy wharf and the boat behaved perfectly. I put this down to the fact that no one was watching at the time.

[GUMPY]

Another tip, don't put the tiller across too far. About 30 degrees is the maximum. When you are moving backwards at some speed, it is easy to feel this point because the pull on the tiller (which can be very strong, take care) starts to decrease if you apply more angle.

 

Depends on the boat

On Idleness ( deep drafted tug with big prop ) if I put the tiller hard over so the rudder blade blocked half the prop in reverse the boat would go the opposite way, i.e. if the rudder blade was covering the port side, the stern of the boat would go to starboard. Meant that I could reverse it almost as far as I liked without using forward gear. one way was better than the other due to prop walk.

[Athy]

Trojan has a 22" prop I think, so that could indeed be a factor in her contrary behaviour.

[Justin Smith]

Instead of asking all these questions why not take your boat out and find out? Not all narrowboats behave the same as stated in several answers already. the best way to know your craft is to go and find out how it behaves.

 

Because when we hire boats my wife (and/or parents when we take them) don`t appreciate me taking up their time with all my experiments.

I got in deep trouble on the last two trips spending time experimenting with the TV aerials. The first was when, apparently, I was supposed to be making the dinner, the second when they were all wanting to watch TV and the signal kept going off/getting weak. Actually, the latter happened a few times, but don`t they realise the importance of research !

Results of the aerial experiments, my area of expertise, are on the link below by the way.

 

Depends on the boat

On Idleness ( deep drafted tug with big prop ) if I put the tiller hard over so the rudder blade blocked half the prop in reverse the boat would go the opposite way, i.e. if the rudder blade was covering the port side, the stern of the boat would go to starboard. Meant that I could reverse it almost as far as I liked without using forward gear. one way was better than the other due to prop walk.

 

When messing about reversing in a boat we hired on the Macclesfield canal I could get it to go one way by putting the tiller hard over, but not the other.

What`s "prop walk" by the way ?

[RLWP]

Justin, you are very clearly on the slippery slope that leads to boat ownership.

 

Richard

 

I recognise the mileposts from when I passed them years ago

[GUMPY]

When messing about reversing in a boat we hired on the Macclesfield canal I could get it to go one way by putting the tiller hard over, but not the other.

What`s "prop walk" by the way ?

 

Prop walk is where the rotation of the prop in reverse moves the back of the boat to one side.

Always the same side and on some boats there is almost none.

On my barge its there but very little on the Yot its a lot and always takes the stern to port hard, so much so that I use it to bring the stern round to line up when entering the berth.

[GSer]

When messing about reversing in a boat we hired on the Macclesfield canal I could get it to go one way by putting the tiller hard over, but not the other.

What`s "prop walk" by the way ?

 

 

While there is little water flowing over the propellor it acts as a paddle wheel to some extent, its very useful to appreciate this effect whilst approaching a mooring that last little shift sideways just before you stop can make you look very good or very bad so its worth knowing how your boat reacts.

 

Get out lots and learn your boat, 10 years ago when I first got mine, I thought reversing well was just luck, but eventually it became second nature i thought/hoped a lot was to do with my personal skill development but alas steering/reversing a new boat last weekend threw it all into the air again, it feels as if i'm starting all over again, I just hope it dosn't take so long to learn this time.

 

Paul

[nb Innisfree]

What`s "prop walk" by the way ?

 

Going to stick my neck out here, but, I don't think propwalk is the main reason boat stern goes to one side when reversing. IMO when in reverse and the propeller helix travels towards the swim, on one side it goes below the swim (port side on a right hand prop) but on the other side it is contained by the side of the swim and the counter plate thereby pushing against that point. This could be why when near the towpath and in shallower water it behaves differently, caused by the helix bouncing off the pilings etc and the bottom of canal bed and then hitting that side of the swim and lessening the effect or even reversing it by overcoming prop walk.

 

This same effect is what happens on a prop driven aeroplane, the helix from the prop travels in a corkscrew round the fuselage and on exiting at the rear it hits the side (right hand) of the rudder and results in a power yaw when throttle is increased (pulls to the right) or when decreased (pulls to the left) Apply this to a narrow boat and the same principle applies?

 

Stands by in the bunker.

Edited April 19, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[Machpoint005]

Plausible. Also explains very neatly why 'prop walk' which is supposed always to be to the same side, isn't, on a shallow canal.

[nb Innisfree]

Plausible. Also explains very neatly why 'prop walk' which is supposed always to be to the same side, isn't, on a shallow canal.

 

Of course I am not saying prop walk is a myth but that it's effect is a lot less than is generally considered.

[Justin Smith]

Justin, you are very clearly on the slippery slope that leads to boat ownership.

 

Richard

 

I recognise the mileposts from when I passed them years ago

 

Me and the wife have discussed it but we`d have to be retired to have the time to go often enough to make it worthwhile.

She likes boating but only in weekly chunks, and when it isn`t raining. I`m with her on the last one mind.

Hiring is SOOOO expensive though. We`re getting a boat from Rugby at the end of April with my parents. Now I admit it`s quite a big boat for four, but it`s about £650, and that`s for only a long weekend ! That`s £325 per couple. Assuming volcanoes weren`t erupting you could get a last minute deal self catering holiday abroad for a week that.

 

We`ve got a bit of a joke going that we`ll get a dog, which she wants, when we get a boat !

[GUMPY]

Going to stick my neck out here, but, I don't think propwalk is the main reason boat stern goes to one side when reversing. IMO when in reverse and the propeller helix travels towards the swim, on one side it goes below the swim (port side on a right hand prop) but on the other side it is contained by the side of the swim and the counter plate thereby pushing against that point. This could be why when near the towpath and in shallower water it behaves differently, caused by the helix bouncing off the pilings etc and the bottom of canal bed and then hitting that side of the swim and lessening the effect or even reversing it by overcoming prop walk.

Stands by in the bunker.

 

OK the on the Yot in deep water (20ft) with no swim as such nor counter plate the effect of prop walk is far more noticeable than on the barge that has all these things........

Every Yot that I have ever driven suffers from it more than most narrow-boats.

[nb Innisfree]

OK the on the Yot in deep water (20ft) with no swim as such nor counter plate the effect of prop walk is far more noticeable than on the barge that has all these things........

Every Yot that I have ever driven suffers from it more than most narrow-boats.

 

Could that be due to barges being heavier or helix hitting the keel?

 

In deep water if prop is also deep then prop walk is negligible or non existent.

[mayalld]

We`ve got a bit of a joke going that we`ll get a dog, which she wants, when we get a boat !

 

Dogs and boats go together VERY well.

[RLWP]

Me and the wife have discussed it but we`d have to be retired to have the time to go often enough to make it worthwhile.

She likes boating but only in weekly chunks, and when it isn`t raining. I`m with her on the last one mind.

Hiring is SOOOO expensive though. We`re getting a boat from Rugby at the end of April with my parents. Now I admit it`s quite a big boat for four, but it`s about £650, and that`s for only a long weekend ! That`s £325 per couple. Assuming volcanoes weren`t erupting you could get a last minute deal self catering holiday abroad for a week that.

 

We`ve got a bit of a joke going that we`ll get a dog, which she wants, when we get a boat !

 

Well, be careful. You are clearly in the highly vulnerable stage.

 

I thought we were OK until I got chatting in a lock to someone who was selling their share in an Ownerships boat (Stolen Time IIRC). One thing led to another and suddenly we ended up with a boat.

 

Richard

 

Someday perhaps we could afford to retire, but not for ages yet...