Live-aboard but no residential moorings.

[carlt]

Under the law, the vessel has to be engaged in "bona fide" navigation. It is hardly conceivable that shuttling to and from the same spot once a fortnight would satisfy the law.

I don't understand how, when the navigation of the majority of boats constitutes moving around a small proportion of the system, a separate definition of "navigation" has to created for a small minority of boaters.

 

As I've said before the round the world yachtsman has a different concept, to navigation, as the yacht owner, that never ventures out of their estuary, but, as the estuary cruiser is in the majority, by a long way, isn't that what one should take as the benchmark, for the salty definition of "navigation"?

 

Likewise, the vast majority of inland boats rarely navigate far, from a fixed point so, surely, it is wrong to suggest that the very tiny proportion of boaters that cruise throughout the system should be the benchmark, for the muddy definition of "navigation.

[sebrof]

I don't understand how, when the navigation of the majority of boats constitutes moving around a small proportion of the system, a separate definition of "navigation" has to created for a small minority of boaters.

 

As I've said before the round the world yachtsman has a different concept, to navigation, as the yacht owner, that never ventures out of their estuary, but, as the estuary cruiser is in the majority, by a long way, isn't that what one should take as the benchmark, for the salty definition of "navigation"?

 

Likewise, the vast majority of inland boats rarely navigate far, from a fixed point so, surely, it is wrong to suggest that the very tiny proportion of boaters that cruise throughout the system should be the benchmark, for the muddy definition of "navigation.

 

Some laws appear to have been drafted with ambiguity as the main aim. It's perhaps what comes of having so many lawyers in Parliament.

 

But the main thing is that CCers don't clog up popular mooring spaces, and BW deals with that by classifying some moorings as 24 or 48 hour. Contrary to what some posters have claimed, I personally haven't seen any evidence that CCers are regularly abusing short-stay moorings.

 

G

[romarni123]

Some laws appear to have been drafted with ambiguity as the main aim. It's perhaps what comes of having so many lawyers in Parliament.

 

But the main thing is that CCers don't clog up popular mooring spaces, and BW deals with that by classifying some moorings as 24 or 48 hour. Contrary to what some posters have claimed, I personally haven't seen any evidence that CCers are regularly abusing short-stay moorings.

 

G

You should come down to tamworth, The longest has been here 7 yrs and the shortest 9mths and there is 19 of them.All on a 48hr and 7 day mooring

[magpie patrick]

I don't understand how, when the navigation of the majority of boats constitutes moving around a small proportion of the system, a separate definition of "navigation" has to created for a small minority of boaters.

 

Likewise, the vast majority of inland boats rarely navigate far, from a fixed point so, surely, it is wrong to suggest that the very tiny proportion of boaters that cruise throughout the system should be the benchmark, for the muddy definition of "navigation.

 

Taking only the patterns in Saul Junction Marina as my yardstick, if you are to say, as I think you are saying, that CCers should broadly follow the same pattern as those with moorings, except move more often, I'd have one issue with what you suggest.

 

Saul Junction Marina has (whisper it less the planning authorities notice) liveaboards, leisure boaters, "retired and well heeled enough to keep the boat in the marina but do a three month trip once a year" boaters, but without exception (and most of the people we know are the liveaboards who don't exist ) they do at least one longish trip a year. Last year we did the Avon ring and I ended up putting our itinerary up in the office to guide others who fancied the same trip.

 

So perhaps a (totally unenforceable rule) for CCers should be "keep moving within a weekend range but once or twice a year go on holiday taking your boat to another canal".

[sooty]

I am coming towards the end of fitting out a narrowboat to permantly live aboard it.

I too have encounted 'boaters' who seem to resent you joining there lifestyle, as though its a club to which they dont want anyone else to join !

I have been warned about the cold,the damp, the condensation,the rats,freezing water supplies, poor electric supply,ever rising mooring fees, ever rising licence fees etc etc .....

I cant wait to wake up on the water,watch the wildlife,take a cruise, change the view from my window if I want to, and generally live a life with minimal possessions. If I dont like the neighbours ... just move the house!

OH YES and cut my monthly out goings by about £1000! (even with marina fees of £2000 pa)

I think some people who live on boats have lost touch with mortgage/rent, domestic gas/electric bills/water rates/rates/domestic insurance.

Depreciation ...... my house has gone down 30%

Maintainance ...... never ending on a property just like a boat.

If you can live in a 50' x 6' box it is definately A CHEAP way of living despite what some boaters might say or think.

 

BRING IT ON

Steve

[Smelly]

I am coming towards the end of fitting out a narrowboat to permantly live aboard it.

I too have encounted 'boaters' who seem to resent you joining there lifestyle, as though its a club to which they dont want anyone else to join !

I have been warned about the cold,the damp, the condensation,the rats,freezing water supplies, poor electric supply,ever rising mooring fees, ever rising licence fees etc etc .....

I cant wait to wake up on the water,watch the wildlife,take a cruise, change the view from my window if I want to, and generally live a life with minimal possessions. If I dont like the neighbours ... just move the house!

OH YES and cut my monthly out goings by about £1000! (even with marina fees of £2000 pa)

I think some people who live on boats have lost touch with mortgage/rent, domestic gas/electric bills/water rates/rates/domestic insurance.

Depreciation ...... my house has gone down 30%

Maintainance ...... never ending on a property just like a boat.

If you can live in a 50' x 6' box it is definately A CHEAP way of living despite what some boaters might say or think.

 

BRING IT ON

Steve

 

Welcome to our world... We're not all whingers (unless you pinch our fave mooring).

 

Good luck!

[Smelly]

I don't understand how, when the navigation of the majority of boats constitutes moving around a small proportion of the system, a separate definition of "navigation" has to created for a small minority of boaters.

 

As I've said before the round the world yachtsman has a different concept, to navigation, as the yacht owner, that never ventures out of their estuary, but, as the estuary cruiser is in the majority, by a long way, isn't that what one should take as the benchmark, for the salty definition of "navigation"?

 

Likewise, the vast majority of inland boats rarely navigate far, from a fixed point so, surely, it is wrong to suggest that the very tiny proportion of boaters that cruise throughout the system should be the benchmark, for the muddy definition of "navigation.

 

Well someone else picked the scab and to be fair I've nearly posted this a few times but I've held back in the hope the fires would die down and we could discuss it sensibly, without the hyperbole that go along with it. Yes I know I'm a hopeless optimist!

 

The statutory phrase is "bone fide for navigation" (my italics) so BW's navigation is the same as evryrone else's. The Chambers definition is "... from place to place". Two places... "Navigation" is undefined so must be given it's simple meaning.

 

I suspect developing the interpretation has been unlawful for all this time, but outwith any definitive jurisprudence (I need to tone this sh*t down, sorry I've been drafting complaints to the Parliamentary Ombudsman recently and am getting carried away) any agency's interpretation is as valid as another's if it goes unchallenged. Bear in mind I think an action in the County Court is an inquisition as opposed to a challenge.

[spacecactus]

I think that while it is vital to consider the ugly facts of boating it is also vital to have a pair of rose tinted glasses handy to cheer yourself up, doesn't everyone initially look at boating with a romantic vision? If we don't look at life romantically then it will all become dull and ordinary and depression will follow. As far as I am concerned the world is my playground and good luck to others who see it the same whether they are bridge hoppers or not.

 

Scrap the rules I say and let's all have a big free for all and create a better community.

 

 

Im with you on that one

[chasing cars]

i often wonder why i love being on the canals so much when half the boaters are self righteous we do everything right and always have a spare windless, cagool/pacamac and have full and immediate break down cover for all eventualities..although of course they dont share or help! oh no because we should all be as prepared and self righteous..

then i cruise look at the sunset (often through the rain) and on occasion find a nice boater...not every day mind you...just sometimes..

[Cinimod]

Well after 2 years - we have finally sold our house and now officially live on our boat...

 

Looking forward to all the lovely sunsets and nice people out there

[capnthommo]

Well after 2 years - we have finally sold our house and now officially live on our boat...

 

Looking forward to all the lovely sunsets and nice people out there

well you're welcome to a coffee and a squint at our sunset if you get anywhere near us. we got 16 days to wait now so jealous as all heck. go on, tell us what it feels like on that first evening. bet it's good hey?

cheers and good luck

nigel

[Cinimod]

Hmm - first day been and gone, and consisted mostly of trying to find places to store everything...

 

Had some very nice neighbours though for our first evening, and had some friendly chats...

The worst people, from my experience, are holiday boaters who 'have been doing it for years'...

 

Viva la 'cut'

[LoneWolf]

Hmm - first day been and gone, and consisted mostly of trying to find places to store everything...

 

Had some very nice neighbours though for our first evening, and had some friendly chats...

The worst people, from my experience, are holiday boaters who 'have been doing it for years'...

 

Viva la 'cut'

 

 

That's the best wild generalisation based on fuck all experience i've seen here.

well done

[Lady Muck]

Hmm - first day been and gone, and consisted mostly of trying to find places to store everything...

 

There was a TV and a playstation stored in my bathtub (and a campervan stuffed eyeball high with junk) for our first few months as liveaboards. I've gone from that to having a big empty cupboard, which is now stuffed again, with grandpas boating papers, which we are slowly sorting out.

[Cinimod]

That's the best wild generalisation based on fuck all experience i've seen here.

well done

Sorry to upset

 

We have been cruising, though not living aboard, for almost 3 years now, so have a reasonable level of experience.

 

It was not a generalisation, just a statement that - FROM MY EXPERIENCE - the worst people have been from that category

[LoneWolf]

Sorry to upset

 

We have been cruising, though not living aboard, for almost 3 years now, so have a reasonable level of experience.

 

It was not a generalisation, just a statement that - FROM MY EXPERIENCE - the worst people have been from that category

 

golly i sounded grumpy didnt i, apologies for that. i wasn't upset i just find generalisations irksome, you clearly have more experience than your post implied

 

my experience is different to yours, the worst people i've met have been liveaboards and shiny boat owners on the yearly cruise. the best people i've met have been liveaboards and shiny boat owners on the yearly cruise. Holidaymakers are generally in between.

[Cinimod]

golly i sounded grumpy didnt i, apologies for that. i wasn't upset i just find generalisations irksome, you clearly have more experience than your post implied

 

my experience is different to yours, the worst people i've met have been liveaboards and shiny boat owners on the yearly cruise. the best people i've met have been liveaboards and shiny boat owners on the yearly cruise. Holidaymakers are generally in between.

 

No hard feelings and all friends again?

 

It just goes to show there are all sorts of people out there and you should not generalise, and treat everyone as an individual...

I really should remember that - my wife does give good advice

[FORTUNATA]

What I tend to see is the way boats often depreciate in value because the truth is some owners didn't have time to look after the said vessel continually. I mean, canals are a very dirty environment so boats need to be washed over and even painted quite regularly. Then, above all, there is the anode and blacking issue. Anodes need to be checked because once they're gone the hull will start to corrode. Blacking should be done at least every two years if possible.

In a nutshell, if you look after a boat with blood, sweat and tears its value will, if anything, go upwards rather than depreciate. Changing engine belts, filters and oil, cleaning up bilges, blacking and even cleaning up water pump filters are all tasks that need to be done by boaters. Taking that into account, it's maybe not so cheap to live afloat but it still works out better than being in a flat.

 

I am getting more and more confused by the number of newbies who join the forum looking for a "cheaper option". The impression I get is that they haven't got the cash to rent a nice warm cozy flat in the middle of the town where they live and walk to work, yet they have the money to purchase a freezing cold boat and suffer all the inconvenience of dodging the system or legitimately CC. Either way its NOT cheap when depreciation, licence, insurance and mooring fees kick in. Add on fuel, maintenance and breakdowns, YES equipment does fail then the picture looks less and less rosy. I blame all these canal based programmes where its summer all year round birds are singing and bees hum and the whole world has a rosy pink glow of warmth for the inspiration of these hopefuls who then just want to go full speed ahead without any thoughts of the bigger picture. Makes my blood boil !!!

[FORTUNATA]

Boaters come in all shapes, sizes and genders, I think. I now come to believe there is even a class system on the canals. Hire boat holidaymakers are generally quite good - always sound their horns at tunnels and bridges to let people know a boat is coming through.

Liveaboards tend to differ. I find the very posh boats seldom have liveaboards, just recreational cruisers. Sometimes I see state of the art liveaboards but often when I see a floating palace and ask, "Do you live on it?", the answer is often, "Oh, good heavens, no!!"

I class myself as a kind of rough-and-ready liveaboard. I figure I qualify as (1) I have an engine under the stern cruiser boards and not an engine room per se. Plus, it's an air cooled Lister (typical of seventies cruisers).

By the way, you do sometimes get what I call the "jolly hockey sticks boaters" who speak with very posh accents and own a 120 K shining palace. Don't be offended if you do own a 120 K shining palace but are actually quite down-to-earth. maybe it's not the best idea to stereotype but it's really an attempt to throw up some humour and living in a boatyard on the cut I do get to see a lot of boaters. Plus, if it's any comfort, I tend to find mostly all the boaters I meet are quite nice people. Just different and varied.

 

 

golly i sounded grumpy didnt i, apologies for that. i wasn't upset i just find generalisations irksome, you clearly have more experience than your post implied

 

my experience is different to yours, the worst people i've met have been liveaboards and shiny boat owners on the yearly cruise. the best people i've met have been liveaboards and shiny boat owners on the yearly cruise. Holidaymakers are generally in between.

Edited June 29, 2010 by FORTUNATA

[spacecactus]

If you read my opinion impartially you would see that it is non specific to any individual. However if you want to take it personally thats your choice I can only assume I've tweaked a nerve by hitting on a number of home truths.

 

 

Dont this bloke ever know when to stop... Chill out mate, have a cupa tea and get an early night, it will all be better in te morning!

[matty40s]

Hire boat holidaymakers are generally quite good - always sound their horns at tunnels and bridges to let people know a boat is coming through.

 

 

 

Hey, I'm a liveaboard and I always sound my horn near a bridge if I see a car coming............

[ditchcrawler]

Hey, I'm a liveaboard and I always sound my horn near a bridge if I see a car coming............

I have always wanted to do that

[Dekazer]

We always do it at Maida Hill tunnel. Admittedly mostly for our amusement at the appalled faces of the diners in the restaurant on the bridge

[Steilsteven]

We always do it at Maida Hill tunnel. Admittedly mostly for our amusement at the appalled faces of the diners in the restaurant on the bridge

 

Narrow boat owners do it standing up