2 cylinder semi diesel bolinder

[Speedwheel]

Anyone know if any of these still exist?

 

Would love one in a boat though it would be totally OTT.

 

This one was a pump engine (from the BCN I think, but could be wrong)

 

[Liam]

Wasn't one fitted into Libra (Warbler) in it's Willow Wren days?

[springy]

IIRC there's a twin in the engine hall at Ellesmere Port which was used as a pumping

engine at Knowle.

 

springy

[Speedwheel]

That could be the very one in the pic.

[pete harrison]

Wasn't one fitted into Libra (Warbler) in it's Willow Wren days?

 

Twin Bolinder yes, but a different model - a cold start 1052BR which it still retains.

 

COLUMBA was fitted with a two cylinder Bolinder semi diesel in about February 1952 when owned by John Knill, although it was replaced only a few months later by a Petter B3M which it still retains. I think COLUMBA's twin Bolinder later found its way into the former F.M.C. Ltd. iron motor PENGUIN, although this was subsequently replaced by a B.M.C. 3.4 then a Gardner 2LW.

Edited January 10, 2010 by pete harrison

[Timleech]

Twin Bolinder yes, but a different model - a cold start 1052BR which it still retains.

 

Bolinders made some physically much smaller twin cylinder semi-diesels, higher-revving than the 15s, I get the impression that they weren't a roaring success.

I remember one lying around at Preston Brook for a while, I think it was put into the (wooden) Jupiter for a David Houlston (?) but I don't think it stayed in for very long.

 

Tim

[pete harrison]

Bolinders made some physically much smaller twin cylinder semi-diesels, higher-revving than the 15s, I get the impression that they weren't a roaring success.

I remember one lying around at Preston Brook for a while, I think it was put into the (wooden) Jupiter for a David Houlston (?) but I don't think it stayed in for very long.

 

Tim

 

The one fitted into David Houlston's JUPITER was a two cylinder W3/M25 (W3 = model / marine 25hp ?), taken out of Seddon's motor boat FOX according to my records. I think the ice boat PELICAN has a single cylinder version of one of these later Bolinders.

 

JUPITER's Bolinder W3/M25 was replaced by a 92hp Meadows 4D C330 mk1 in about 1970 which in turn was replaced by a Lister JP2 around 1976.

Edited January 10, 2010 by pete harrison

[Derek R.]

A 'pump' engine? Looks like it's got a gearbox to me. My money would be on a fishing boat.

Little 'Tortoise' in the background - a No.3 maybe. Nice shirt . 1970's? Which wharf?

 

Derek

[jake_crew]

IIRC there was a three cylinder Bolly fitted to a modernish ~60' liveaboard narrowboat called Jenny in the 70s/80s.

 

It sounded wonderful but must have been a bit of a cow to start with three blow lamps to juggle.

 

ED for spleling

Edited January 10, 2010 by jake_crew

[BEngo]

IIRC there was a three cylinder Bolly fitted to a modernish ~60' liveaboard narrowboat called Jenny in the 70s/80s.

 

It sounded wonderful but must have been a bit of a cow to start with three blow lamps to juggle.

 

ED for spleling

 

 

If that's the Jenny/Creeping Jenny I know its first Bolinder was a key-start BR 1052, now owned by a forum member after a spell in a garage, I think, and then was fitted with a BR 1053 when it was lengthened. So no blow lamps.

 

If you want to see and hear some big multi-cylinder semis at work go either to Internal Fire near Cardigan or to the Pumping engine museum at Prickwillow. There may also be some at the Anson Museum near Manchester.

 

N

[Speedwheel]

IIRC there was a three cylinder Bolly fitted to a modernish ~60' liveaboard narrowboat called Jenny in the 70s/80s.

 

It sounded wonderful but must have been a bit of a cow to start with three blow lamps to juggle.

 

ED for spleling

 

If you are thinking of John Pattles boat then that is not a semi-diesel but a full diesel in 1053 format.

 

The 1052 is indeed still in Warbler and Chris G has a 1052 in his new Boat Batavia.

 

I am pretty sure it is a pump engine. It hasn't got a gearbox. The lever is just to engage and disengage a clutch. It hasn't got a reversing mechanism either by the looks of it so I doubt it is from a boat.

 

You can still pick up quite a few of the smaller semi-diesel bolinders in the forms mentioned above from the Netherlands and Scandinavia.

 

That pic is taken at one of the museums but I can't remember which. Apparantly, some time after this pic was taken, the flywheel was put back on and it was started. Bounced quite a lot so I'm told!

Edited January 10, 2010 by Satellite

[Hairy-Neil]

A 'pump' engine? Looks like it's got a gearbox to me. My money would be on a fishing boat.

Little 'Tortoise' in the background - a No.3 maybe. Nice shirt . 1970's? Which wharf?

 

Derek

 

It's got a Black Country Museum look to it....

[jake_crew]

If that's the Jenny/Creeping Jenny I know its first Bolinder was a key-start BR 1052, now owned by a forum member after a spell in a garage, I think, and then was fitted with a BR 1053 when it was lengthened. So no blow lamps.

Thanks for the clarification - it certainly was a lovely boat.

[Laurence Hogg]

That pic sure looks like Black Country museum. Twins had a poor reputation with operators, I well remember Ken Keay running them down. One of the L Leigh tugs had a small twin if I remember.

[Paul H]

A 'pump' engine? Looks like it's got a gearbox to me. My money would be on a fishing boat.

Little 'Tortoise' in the background - a No.3 maybe. Nice shirt . 1970's? Which wharf?

 

Derek

This engine used to be at Stoke Bruerne before being relocated to Elesmere Port. It was said to be removed from a pumping engine but to have previously been in the tug Panama. It is likely that Panama was the 8ft wide "London level" tug of this name owned by William Boyer and Sons. It is today in Harefield Marina but has been sunk in deep water almost out of sight since 1961!

 

Paul H

Edited January 10, 2010 by Paul H

[Speedwheel]

Thanks for that Paul. Very interesting.

 

Don't suppose you know if it is direct reversing?

 

Here is Johns boat now (well 2005). Still with 1053.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Satellite

[Timleech]

Thanks for that Paul. Very interesting.

 

Don't suppose you know if it is direct reversing?

 

I don't see any provision for reversing the engine, in the pic, but that could be a BREVO gearbox similar to those fitted on the 20hp GU singles, they look superficially quite similar to the ordinary Bolinders clutch. Unfortunately the tarpaulin just obscures the vital evidence!

 

Tim

Edited January 10, 2010 by Timleech

[Timleech]

I don't see any provision for reversing the engine, in the pic, but that could be a BREVO gearbox similar to those fitted on the 20hp GU singles, they look superficially quite similar to the ordinary Bolinders clutch. Unfortunately the tarpaulin just obscures the vital evidence!

 

Tim

 

Ignore that, the gearbox has a brake band on the outside of the drum, without that the appearance would be similar.

It must just be a clutch.

 

Tim

 

Edit to add that direct reversing would probably be by air rather than reversing pumps. There's what looks like an air start valve on the rear cylinder, but just a simple manual valve which would require barring the flywheel round to the correct position & thus not really a viable method for reversing whilst manoeuvring a tug.

Somewhere I have an old photocopied manual which AFAIR includes some info on reversing the bigger engines but can't lay my hands on it right now.

 

Tim

Edited January 10, 2010 by Timleech

[Derek R.]

I bow to knowledge. The reverence given to single and even twin hot bulb engines always intrigues. The simplicity and sound is wonderful, but like the comparative motorcycle the 600cc Panther, they sound great, and haul a chair no problem, but the vibration! Perhaps less with the Panther than the semi-diesel Bolinder, but I can see Bolinder steerers bouncing up and down in the bar with a pint slopping out the glass.

 

Looking at the pictures in the Bolinder thread by David Mack - even the angle of the shot is the same - the Single. (Direct reversing.)

 

Derek

[Timleech]

I bow to knowledge. The reverence given to single and even twin hot bulb engines always intrigues. The simplicity and sound is wonderful, but like the comparative motorcycle the 600cc Panther, they sound great, and haul a chair no problem, but the vibration! Perhaps less with the Panther than the semi-diesel Bolinder, but I can see Bolinder steerers bouncing up and down in the bar with a pint slopping out the glass.

 

Looking at the pictures in the Bolinder thread by David Mack - even the angle of the shot is the same - the Single. (Direct reversing.)

 

Derek

 

Looking again at the original pic, it looks to have reversing pumps but I can see no reversing mechanism. I suppose if it had had a change of use to a pumping engine, it would be reasonable for the mechanism to have been removed.

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

I was trying to think how it would work. Theoretically you would only need a reversing pump on one cylinder to turn the engine. Once in reverse it would then continue to run on the main pumps.

 

Looking at the pic you can see that it would probably have been started on 1 cylinder and then the second brought in. There is a decompression lever on the second cylinder. So I guess it could have been hand/foot start.

[Timleech]

I was trying to think how it would work. Theoretically you would only need a reversing pump on one cylinder to turn the engine. Once in reverse it would then continue to run on the main pumps.

 

Looking at the pic you can see that it would probably have been started on 1 cylinder and then the second brought in. There is a decompression lever on the second cylinder. So I guess it could have been hand/foot start.

 

I thought that was probably an air start valve on the second cylinder, but happy to be told otherwise.

Using only one reversing pump might lead to 'confusion', with the pump on the other cylinder still trying to drive it ahead?

 

Dunno

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

Could well be Tim. I dunno either.

 

EDIT: looking at the picture again, what you said Tim would make more sense!

Edited January 10, 2010 by Satellite

[springy]

I'm pretty convinced that there is no pump based reversing:-

 

There is no lever to control the friction wedges,

There is no push rod from where the friction wedges would be to the

table attachment "bell crank",

There is no "pecker" on the "back pump" end of the injector bell crank

(at least on the outer pump anyway). Although all the components that

are there look to be standard i.e. as if it did have pump reversing.

 

It is difficult to tell but I dont think there is a "Table" for the back pump or

even a "Back Pump" itself - the pump main body casting is looks standard but

probably just has a bung in the threaded hole where the "back pump"

body and plunger would be.

 

Don't think the photo was at BCLM - can't think of any buildings of that type

close to the water.

 

Not convinced by Dereck's comment about Bolinder Steerers slopping their

beer - it's just your legs that bounce - even standing on the counter on tickover

you can still drink your tea. Problems with spilling beer can only be down to

faulty glasses.

 

springy

[Mac of Cygnet]

Can I just say thankyou to this thread for at last forcing me to find out what a semidiesel is? Previous such topics might have been in Serbo-Croat for all the sense they made to me. Is it true that semi-diesels can run on such weird fuels as creosote and old engine oil?

 

Mac