2 cylinder semi diesel bolinder

[Speedwheel]

Ye you are spot on Springy. I hadn't thought about the reversing rod.

 

Regarding tea, I can't leave a cup of tea on the slide at tickover. It goes everywhere. Anything above tickover it is usually fine though.

[Timleech]

I'm pretty convinced that there is no pump based reversing:-

 

There is no lever to control the friction wedges,

There is no push rod from where the friction wedges would be to the

table attachment "bell crank",

There is no "pecker" on the "back pump" end of the injector bell crank

(at least on the outer pump anyway). Although all the components that

are there look to be standard i.e. as if it did have pump reversing.

 

It is difficult to tell but I dont think there is a "Table" for the back pump or

even a "Back Pump" itself - the pump main body casting is looks standard but

probably just has a bung in the threaded hole where the "back pump"

body and plunger would be.

 

springy

 

All of which is consistent with the engine having been built with pump reversing, but having that facility removed when the useage was changed.

 

I've tweaked the picture a bit to make the pump parts a bit more visible, & it seems pretty clear that some of the parts you list have been removed

 

 

I've got an old book with a couple of pages which describe the reversing mechanism quite well, I can scan and post them here if there's an appetite from those who haven't a clue what we're on about? It's probably out of copyright by now.

 

Tim

[springy]

<snip> Is it true that semi-diesels can run on such weird fuels as creosote and old engine oil?

 

Mac

 

Bolinders were sold as a "Crude Oil Engine" and certainly the larger seagoing engines would

have had "Fuel Preheating" coils in the exhaust allowing them to run on "Heavy Fuel Oil" - often

known as Bunker Fuel - much longer chain fractions of crude oil and much thicker than Diesel.

 

AFAIK on the canals they were always run on "Gas Oil" (Diesel) which is usually just refered to as

Oil. Lubrication for engine is "Green Oil".

 

They probably would run on creosote and old engine oil but I'd be very wary particularly of the

effect on the injector pumps, but also on the spindle (adjustable injector).

 

springy

[Timleech]

Bolinders were sold as a "Crude Oil Engine" and certainly the larger seagoing engines would

have had "Fuel Preheating" coils in the exhaust allowing them to run on "Heavy Fuel Oil" - often

known as Bunker Fuel - much longer chain fractions of crude oil and much thicker than Diesel.

 

AFAIK on the canals they were always run on "Gas Oil" (Diesel) which is usually just refered to as

Oil. Lubrication for engine is "Green Oil".

 

They probably would run on creosote and old engine oil but I'd be very wary particularly of the

effect on the injector pumps, but also on the spindle (adjustable injector).

 

springy

 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that in Scandinavia 'Crude oil' has a particular meaning and is not just any old black stuff pumped out of the ground. Anyone know for certain?

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

Which book is it Tim?

 

Edit: Pic for you.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Satellite

[Timleech]

Which book is it Tim?

 

'Marine Diesel Oil Engine Practice' by Sothern & Bowden

 

Tim

 

Edit - who's that slim, stylish handsome young man?

 

I'll try to find the reverse picture later

 

Tim

Edited January 10, 2010 by Timleech

[RLWP]

<snip>

I've got an old book with a couple of pages which describe the reversing mechanism quite well, I can scan and post them here if there's an appetite from those who haven't a clue what we're on about? It's probably out of copyright by now.

 

Tim

 

Yes please

 

Richard

[springy]

I've got an old book with a couple of pages which describe the reversing mechanism quite well, I can scan and post them here if there's an appetite from those who haven't a clue what we're on about? It's probably out of copyright by now.

 

Tim

 

I'd be interested too - I've just been looking at some pages in one of the manuals (downloaded from

internal fire) and it seems that the twins had "coordinated fuel pumps" a mechanism which ensured that

each pump operated the same number of times - if the front cylinder pump was a "miss" then the rear

cylinder pump would also be a "miss", and that if the front cylinder pump was a "hit" then the next

firing stroke would be the rear cylinder (though not necessarily the next stroke). These engines

had a separate "Back Pump" (or at least some of them did - it's not that clear). The photos in

the manual however seem to show a standard setup with back pump, table and pecker as per

the singles ?

 

springy

[Hairy-Neil]

I always thought it was a shame that having been running at Knowle it subeequently became a static exhibit at Stoke Bruerne. I have not been to Ellemere Port for a while. Is it running there?

 

They run it for a bit on high days and holidays.

[Timleech]

I'd be interested too - I've just been looking at some pages in one of the manuals (downloaded from

internal fire) and it seems that the twins had "coordinated fuel pumps" a mechanism which ensured that

each pump operated the same number of times - if the front cylinder pump was a "miss" then the rear

cylinder pump would also be a "miss", and that if the front cylinder pump was a "hit" then the next

firing stroke would be the rear cylinder (though not necessarily the next stroke). These engines

had a separate "Back Pump" (or at least some of them did - it's not that clear). The photos in

the manual however seem to show a standard setup with back pump, table and pecker as per

the singles ?

 

springy

 

That description sounds familiar, probably a similar manual to the one I have.

 

Here are links to the book pages:-

 

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss38/Ti.../image0-4-1.jpg

 

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss38/Ti...09/image1-2.jpg

 

and a couple of pics for Satellite:-

 

 

 

 

 

Not brilliant pics, but options are a bit limited from the bottom of the lock

 

Tim

[Liam]

Empress, Cactus and... ?

[Derek R.]

Thanks Tim, I've never had hands on, or even close inspection of Bolinder semi-diesel workings. Hit and miss I've seen at shows often enough, but not Bolinders.

 

In that photo of the twin, the engine beds look to have holes in where a reversing lever might have once been (just a guess), and whilst there appears to be no rod from a reversing mechanism (also removed?), there looks to be an addition just left of the front pump rocker, in the form of a small hand lever in a quadrant. Throttle setting? Which might indicate a change from a direct reversing engine, to a pump engine with set throttle and no need for reversing - hence removed reversing tackle. (Though the holes could have been there from the start, without any reversing gear fitted from day one).

 

The valve on the side of the back cylinder does indeed look like and air valve for starting.

Would I be correct in thinking the twin had a 180° crankshaft throw? In which case I would suspect hand or foot starting would be somewhat difficult (though not impossible if your names Hercules!) as bouncing one piston on compression would be bouncing the other against crankcase pressure. Twice the effort needed, counting in the extra friction from moving parts.

 

Brilliant stuff. Looks like ex-tug engine turned pump engine, with a possible boat and location (all unconfirmed so far).

 

Which Tug were you standing on?

Trent, or Weaver - I've been on one not the other. Effluent says Trent.

 

Derek.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Derek R.

[Timleech]

Empress, Cactus and... ?

 

Dory

 

 

 

Which Tug were you standing on?

Trent, or Weaver - I've been on one not the other. Effluent says Trent.

 

Derek.

 

Kennet

 

Vale Royal Locks, R.Weaver

 

Tim

Edited January 11, 2010 by Timleech

[Chris-B]

Bargeeboy has/had a Bolinder hotbulb twin a while back

Knowing him it's still in a shed somewhere !!!

 

C

[Derek R.]

Vale Royal Locks, R.Weaver

Tim

 

Of course - should have spotted the signals!

 

Derek

[Speedwheel]

Thanks Tim.

 

Kennet - not jealous at all.

 

I will have to email Drew and see if the rumour is true.

[springy]

<snip>

, there looks to be an addition just left of the front pump rocker, in the form of a small hand lever in a quadrant. Throttle setting?

 

Derek.

 

There are two hand levers on quadrants - the lower one operates the air flap in the transfer

port - used to reduce the charge of air into the cylinder - this helps to keep the engine hot

enough when running light or just on tickover for long periods. The upper one (which I think

you are refering to) seems to be variously known as the pump rack or bracket rack. I have

A Bolinders Manual which refers to it as the "No Miss Handle" - it adjusts the Pump Stroke

and hence the amount of fuel fed into the engine on each firing stroke, - this is not adjustable

(usually) from the steering position & generally, as I understand it, it is usually set 5 - 8 notches

down & left there. It is of more use on seagoing vessels as you can "fine tune" the running

of the engine so that it hits every beat and so runs smoother & on the least amount of fuel

- useful if you are going to be on "full chat" for several hours. The engine speed is set using

the circular brass control with a handle, which is on top of the pump assembly - this increases

the pressure on the hit & miss governor spring & hence forces the pumps to strike more

often.

All the above are standard on all bolinders except the Pup (9HP) and smaller (I think)

which do not have the air flap in the transfer port.

 

springy

[Timleech]

Thanks Tim.

 

Kennet - not jealous at all.

 

Built originally with a 3-cyl 2-stroke direct reversing Gardner. Full diesel, not semi-diesel though.

There's one the same model at Ellesmere Port, do you think anyone would notice if I 'borrowed' it

 

Tim

[Derek R.]

Thanks Springy - getting a better picture now.

 

Is that diesel smoke from Kennet, or real coal smoke?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Derek R.

[Timleech]

Thanks Springy - getting a better picture now.

 

Is that diesel smoke from Kennet, or real coal smoke?

 

Diesel, from an under-employed Kelvin. Probably with glazed bores

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

I very much doubt they would notice Tim.

 

Smoking competition below. 2 Bolinders, an Armstrong and an underworked Kelvin.

 

 

Back on topic - restoration project.

[soldthehouse]

I very much doubt they would notice Tim.

 

Smoking competition below. 2 Bolinders, an Armstrong and an underworked Kelvin.

 

 

Back on topic - restoration project.

All joking aside is that egine liable to be up for grabs.... and nice passive smoking potential among those boats, wonderful

Edited January 12, 2010 by soldthehouse

[Speedwheel]

It was in the 1970's!

[soldthehouse]

It was in the 1970's!

My naive enthusiasm at work again...

[NB Alnwick]

Built originally with a 3-cyl 2-stroke direct reversing Gardner. Full diesel, not semi-diesel though.

There's one the same model at Ellesmere Port, do you think anyone would notice if I 'borrowed' it

 

Tim

 

That is a really nice boat - although I think the white smoke is more than likely unburnt oil - perhaps lubricating oil coming down the valve guides? Good image though - makes it look like a steamer!