Paying for red diesel

[Stroudwater1]

Marinas etc  are at liberty to sell at this fixed 60/40 split. I’m not sure a list would be useful as things change regularly. Your best bet is to ask around within your vicinity. That’s usually the best way to find out.
 

How do you get to the diesel pump if you haven’t moved for two years? It must have a long delivery hose at the pump. You may find a fuel boat that moors alongside and delivers to your boat? 

[christiaan]

The fuel tank had 500 litres in when I bought it so haven't needed any until now!

 

[Jon57]

16 minutes ago, christiaan said:

The fuel tank had 500 litres in when I bought it so haven't needed any until now!

 

Your options are. 

1 move boat to diesel point and pay the split

2 move the boat onto the canal and use a fuel boat or another supplier who will do self declaration. 

3 fill containers from a supplier who doesn't care what you use it for. 

4 sell boat and buy another one with a full diesel tank. And repeat when empty. 

Hope that helps 😁

[MtB]

Another option might be to order some red diesel/gas oil from one of the domestic fuel suppliers who will deliver it in a tanker. 

 

E.g. https://www.boilerjuice.com/uk

 

Minimum delivery size happens to be 500 litres, conveniently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently about £1 a litre plus 5% VAT for my area. Yours might be different.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Jon57 said:

Your options are. 

1 move boat to diesel point and pay the split

2 move the boat onto the canal and use a fuel boat or another supplier who will do self declaration. 

3 fill containers from a supplier who doesn't care what you use it for. 

4 sell boat and buy another one with a full diesel tank. And repeat when empty. 

Hope that helps 😁

 

5) Move boat to another marina that will sell at whatever % you want to claim.

[dmr]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

Another option might be to order some red diesel/gas oil from one of the domestic fuel suppliers who will deliver it in a tanker. 

 

E.g. https://www.boilerjuice.com/uk

 

Minimum delivery size happens to be 500 litres, conveniently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently about £1 a litre plus 5% VAT for my area. Yours might be different.

 

 

 

yes but, The tanker hose will not fit the boat filler, it will be huge and deliver fuel at a massive rate.. You will also have to fill in the suppliers declaration stating why you can use red diesel and they might or might not be happy about selling to a boat .  Also the marina will likely object to a tanker enterring their property to compete with them.

 

As the op only fills the tank once every blue moon then HVO would be a better/safer option but thats even more difficult.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Marinas etc  are at liberty to sell at this fixed 60/40 split. I’m not sure a list would be useful as things change regularly. Your best bet is to ask around within your vicinity. That’s usually the best way to find out.

 

I don't know how often this gets updated Where to buy diesel – Retirement with No Problem but it lists those that do a fixed split 

[Tracy D'arth]

4 hours ago, christiaan said:

Does anyone know if this is still the same with the 60/40 split? Is there a list of marinas that operate by accepting your own decleration? I l live on a wide beam that stays put so only use it for heating and not water but the marina insist on 60/40 even though I haven't moved in 2 years I've had the boat.

any info welcomed.

Where? UK? Europe?

[Jon57]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

5) Move boat to another marina that will sell at whatever % you want to claim.

6 Go all electric. 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

6 Go all electric... 

...with no generator. Good luck with that... 😉 

[Jon57]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

...with no generator. Good luck with that... 😉 

Looks like the boat doesn't go far. Perfect. 😁👍

[IanD]

27 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Looks like the boat doesn't go far. Perfect. 😁👍

I haven't run my generator since going out cruising in October. Mind you, the boat's been plugged into shoreline all winter... 😉

 

(and hasn't used any shore power for the last couple of weeks, solar has been enough -- no domestic use though...)

[Jon57]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

I haven't run my generator since going out cruising in October. Mind you, the boat's been plugged into shoreline all winter... 😉

 

(and hasn't used any shore power for the last couple of weeks, solar has been enough -- no domestic use though...)

So all electric like I said then. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

yes but, The tanker hose will not fit the boat filler, it will be huge and deliver fuel at a massive rate.. You will also have to fill in the suppliers declaration stating why you can use red diesel and they might or might not be happy about selling to a boat .  Also the marina will likely object to a tanker enterring their property to compete with them.

 

As the op only fills the tank once every blue moon then HVO would be a better/safer option but thats even more difficult.

 

Yep, agree with all of that. The OP is going to have to go to considerable trouble to avoid paying the 60/40 split whichever alternative approach to getting fuel s/he decides use. 

 

I'd suggest just sucking it up and paying the split.

[dmr]

38 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yep, agree with all of that. The OP is going to have to go to considerable trouble to avoid paying the 60/40 split whichever alternative approach to getting fuel s/he decides use. 

 

I'd suggest just sucking it up and paying the split.

 

One of the big attractions of living on a boat is the sense of freedom, and a static boat in a marina rather negates this, you are stuck with whatever rules and regulations the marina chooses to apply. However they must know that the boat is static so asking for propulsion duty is rather unfair.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Jon57 said:

So all electric like I said then. 

Not if I go out cruising, then the generator is needed -- unless you cruise only a bit, only in summer, or *very* slowly... 😉 

 

(also heating is diesel)

Edited April 5 by IanD

[christiaan]

25 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

One of the big attractions of living on a boat is the sense of freedom, and a static boat in a marina rather negates this, you are stuck with whatever rules and regulations the marina chooses to apply. However they must know that the boat is static so asking for propulsion duty is rather unfair.

I really only ever intended it as a home as I couldn't afford to buy a house. I can't find anywhere in the legislation that states a supplier of rebated fuel can decide for you what your usage is. All I can find is that you make your declaration based on actual usage and the supplier adjusts the duty in accordance. I used to live in a rural areas a r used heating oil which is 0 duty whereas red diesel is 11.14p duty included and should be no more if used for heating only. I can't understand why any supplier would want to charge customers any more than they legally have to!

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Where? UK? Europe?

Uk, Cambridgeshire

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, christiaan said:

I really only ever intended it as a home as I couldn't afford to buy a house. I can't find anywhere in the legislation that states a supplier of rebated fuel can decide for you what your usage is. All I can find is that you make your declaration based on actual usage and the supplier adjusts the duty in accordance. I used to live in a rural areas a r used heating oil which is 0 duty whereas red diesel is 11.14p duty included and should be no more if used for heating only. I can't understand why any supplier would want to charge customers any more than they legally have to!

 

It was clarified by the HMRC at the introduction of the 'tax split' that fuel retailers (to boats) COULD have a fixed percentage rate if they wanted to, and the HMRC would not "question" any declarations at 60/40 as they would accept that as an average.

Retailers, if they wish, can of course accept any declaration made by the customer from 100/0 to 0/100 but bear in mind the profit on diesel is only 'pennies' and the time taken to manually work out every possible permuation of tax payable would involve 'hours' of labour cost.

 

Like most things in life - you have a choice.

Pay what the supplier asks, or, find another supplier.

[Lady M]

Alan is absolutely correct.  You have the option to purchase elsewhere or adjust your declaration next time.  Only boats on official residential moorings are supposed to be allowed to declare 0% propulsion.

[PeterScott]

8 minutes ago, Lady M said:

Only boats on official residential moorings are supposed to be allowed to declare 0% propulsion.

That sounds like an urban legend to me ... 🙂 Is there a reference to something in the legislation ??

[christiaan]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It was clarified by the HMRC at the introduction of the 'tax split' that fuel retailers (to boats) COULD have a fixed percentage rate if they wanted to, and the HMRC would not "question" any declarations at 60/40 as they would accept that as an average.

Retailers, if they wish, can of course accept any declaration made by the customer from 100/0 to 0/100 but bear in mind the profit on diesel is only 'pennies' and the time taken to manually work out every possible permuation of tax payable would involve 'hours' of labour cost.

 

Like most things in life - you have a choice.

Pay what the supplier asks, or, find another supplier.

Thanks for that, I couldn't find anything that said that.

[haggis]

22 minutes ago, PeterScott said:

That sounds like an urban legend to me ... 🙂 Is there a reference to something in the legislation ??

If a boat never moves (apart from going for fuel) then it can claim zero for propulsion . It could either be a liveaboard or a leisure boat which never moved. I am pretty certain that is what the legislation said but in more flowery language 🙂 

[Lady M]

The actual wording can be found in Excise Notice 554.  Paragraphs 5.7 and 5.8 are relevant.  Here they are:

 

 

5.7 If you’re a residential boat owner and only move your boat short distances occasionally

We recognise that there are boat owners whose primary, or only residence is their boat.

Some of these will be at fixed moorings or move just a very short distance along the tow path from permanent moorings. If you live aboard your craft permanently and hold certain documentation, such as a Houseboat Licence, Residential Mooring Licence, Council Tax bill in respect of the mooring, or other documentation, such as invoices or bills which provide proof of permanent residency, you may purchase all your fuel at the rebated rate (as if you owned a commercial vessel). You are not required to make a declaration.

However, it will be your responsibility to make sure that you hold the requisite documentation should we wish to check this at a future date.

5.8 If you’re a continuous cruiser

If you’re a ‘continuous cruiser’ you may not claim all of your fuel for non-propulsion purposes under the arrangements for residential boat owners. Even if you reside permanently on your craft, you must declare your actual intended usage for propulsion.

[PeterScott]

OK. Do we know of anyone (boater or boatyard) experiencing any enforcement action from HMRC based on the Excise Notice ?

[haggis]

1 minute ago, PeterScott said:

OK. Do we know of anyone (boater or boatyard) experiencing any enforcement action from HMRC based on the Excise Notice ?

I don't think we do but we are keeping quiet about it 🙂 . I have heard on the grapevine that some suppliers are quite happy with zero propulsion for any boats but I couldn't possibly comment on that !