Battery boxes

[blackrose]

Just realised my big plywood battery box isn't going to be quite wide enough for my new lithiums. 

 

I could carefully cut the front out with a multi-tool and make it a couple of inches wider using wooden battens, or I could buy something new. Whenever I search for battery boxes Google just comes up with individual boxes. Or could I just use a big plastic storage container with a lid? It's sitting on the uxter plate so it doesn't need to be very strong, but my plywood box has a cut out at the front which makes getting batteries in and out much easier.

 

I'm leaning towards surgery of the plywood box.

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Just realised my big plywood battery box isn't going to be quite wide enough for my new lithiums. 

 

I could carefully cut the front out with a multi-tool and make it a couple of inches wider using wooden battens, or I could buy something new. Whenever I search for battery boxes Google just comes up with individual boxes. Or could I just use a big plastic storage container with a lid? It's sitting on the uxter plate so it doesn't need to be very strong, but my plywood box has a cut out at the front which makes getting batteries in and out much easier.

 

I'm leaning towards surgery of the plywood box.

 

Lithium drop-in batteries don't really need a super-strong/leak-proof battery box; so long as they're securely held in place so they can't move almost anything will do. But if you want to help keep them warm in cold weather, a closed plywood box (with lid, and possibly heating pads if the batteries don't have them) will help...

Edited January 11 by IanD

[blackrose]

Thanks. Don't they need a lid for the BSS - or something covering the terminals?

[IanD]

Just now, blackrose said:

Thanks. Don't they need a lid for the BSS - or something covering the terminals?

BSS doesn't need a lid as such, but the terminals have to be protected from being shorted out and a closed (wooden?) lid is the easiest way to do this. There may be a requirement that tools are needed to open this if the terminals inside are bare, suggest you check the actual rules.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Thanks. Don't they need a lid for the BSS - or something covering the terminals?

They need to be held down so they can't move and the terminals need to be protected so they can't be shorted out by a dropped spanner, or the like.

[blackrose]

I've just had a plywood lid for the previous 5 BSS inspections and it's always passed.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Thanks. Don't they need a lid for the BSS - or something covering the terminals?

 

 

Extract from the ISO standard that the insurers (and BSS) are looking to specify for lithium installations ;

It may be worth doing it at this stage rather than waiting for it to be implemented.

 

6.6 Installation tie down requirements — Lithium-ion battery banks should be restrained such that,
as installed, the bank cannot move more than 10 mm in any direction when a pulling force of twice the
battery weight is applied through the centre of gravity of the battery as follows:
— vertically, for a duration of 1 min;
— horizontally and parallel to the boat's centreline, for a duration of 1 min, each in the fore and aft
directions; and
— horizontally and perpendicular to the boat's centreline, for a duration of 1 min, each in the starboard
and port directions.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Extract from the ISO standard that the insurers (and BSS) are looking to specify for lithium installations ;

It may be worth doing it at this stage rather than waiting for it to be implemented.

 

6.6 Installation tie down requirements — Lithium-ion battery banks should be restrained such that,
as installed, the bank cannot move more than 10 mm in any direction when a pulling force of twice the
battery weight is applied through the centre of gravity of the battery as follows:
— vertically, for a duration of 1 min;
— horizontally and parallel to the boat's centreline, for a duration of 1 min, each in the fore and aft
directions; and
— horizontally and perpendicular to the boat's centreline, for a duration of 1 min, each in the starboard
and port directions.

 

I hope that means downwards -- upwards means the boat is upside-down, at which point a loose battery is the least of your problems... 😞 

[blackrose]

I guess some sort of ratchet strap arrangement might work? 

 

For the time being I'm just trying to make it simple as I need to get the old batteries out/new batteries in and connected as quickly as possible so that I'm not without power overnight. So I'll probably cut the front of the existing box out in advance.

[David Mack]

BSS doesn't require a battery box of any sort. Only that the batteries are restrained against movement and that terminals are covered.

My start battery sits on a shelf welded to the engine room bulkhead with a steel strap around it bolted to the bulkhead just below the top of the battery. Individual covers over the terminals like these. Obtainable from chandler's or ebay, usually as a red and black pair.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I hope that means downwards -- upwards means the boat is upside-down, at which point a loose battery is the least of your problems... 😞 

 

Are you joking ?

 

Think of the situation where the throttle is stuck at high revs and you are in gear, you ram 20/30 tons of boat into a wall - the batteries will try and move forwards an upwards in an arc.

 

Or, for lumpy water boats (the standard applies to them as well) you come crashing down off the top of a wave, or, you get negative G as you take off from a wave.

[Mike Tee]

My batteries sit in a cage of angle iron with a loose lid of substantial (I think 18mm) ply. Had the required inspection done just before Christmas (no alterations since it passed 4 years ago) and the examiner failed it as apparently the requirements have changed (same examiner as last time). I had to pack out the space so the batteries could not move / slide more than a specified distance, plus the lid had to be fixed in place (I just bolted it down). 

No big deal and easily and quickly fixed, but just be aware because it passed 4 years ago doesn't mean it will now!

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, Mike Tee said:

My batteries sit in a cage of angle iron with a loose lid of substantial (I think 18mm) ply. Had the required inspection done just before Christmas (no alterations since it passed 4 years ago) and the examiner failed it as apparently the requirements have changed (same examiner as last time). I had to pack out the space so the batteries could not move / slide more than a specified distance, plus the lid had to be fixed in place (I just bolted it down). 

No big deal and easily and quickly fixed, but just be aware because it passed 4 years ago doesn't mean it will now!

I would suggest he has done a refresher course and noted things he missed in the past, as I think sideways movement has always been there 

[Mike Tee]

What about the lid? Has that always been so?

[matty40s]

There are a lot of things that have been there a long time and just ignored, or passed over as a cup of tea was going cold.

The bss inspectors are now being inspected themselves.

 

1 minute ago, Mike Tee said:

What about the lid? Has that always been so?

Lid is not mandatory, it is just the easiest way to both protect the terminals, and ( if strapped/bolted/clipped/ screwed down), helps achieve the No Movement of More Than 10mm in Any Direction bit.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

BSS doesn't require a battery box of any sort. 

 

Yes, but neither does it preclude the use of a battery box. The front of mine is covered with isolator switches, busbars, cable clips, fuses and labels, so not having a box would mean fitting those things in other places. A box with a lid keeps dust off the batteries too so they stay a bit cleaner.

7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The bss inspectors are now being inspected themselves.

 

 

Soon they'll be inspecting the BSS inspector inspectors.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

10 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Soon they'll be inspecting the BSS inspector inspectors.

Are they hiring? 😀

[magnetman]

Not drop-in batteries then. 

 

I thought the whole idea of these products was that they fitted in the same space as the batteries being replaced. 

 

Maybe that is a campervan thing. Critical use of space. 

[blackrose]

31 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I thought the whole idea of these products was that they fitted in the same space as the batteries being replaced. 

 

 

Well they do if the space is big enough! Mine is just a home made plywood box. But why would you expect any new battery to fit into the same space as every other battery? Be sensible, they can't design the dimensions for all unknown spaces.

 

If I'd chosen smaller lithium batteries then they would fit into my box, but 2 x 280ah is what I wanted to replace my existing 450ah of LA batteries, so I'll have to enlarge the box. It's not rocket science.

Edited January 11 by blackrose

[magnetman]

10 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Well they do if the space is big enough! 

 

 

Yes but 'drop in' is used in the marketing and it means that the batteries are the same size as older lead acid types. 

 

I expect the Trojans might be a slightly different size. 

 

There are standard battery case sizes. 

 

Groups 

https://www.batteryequivalents.com/bci-battery-group-size-chart.html

 

 

However looking at that the Fogstar 280 don't seem to conform so maybe they are not a 'drop in' type. 

 

It is possible that suppliers are moving away from the rather misleading 'drop in' terminology. 

Edited January 11 by magnetman

[ditchcrawler]

37 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Yes but 'drop in' is used in the marketing and it means that the batteries are the same size as older lead acid types. 

 

I expect the Trojans might be a slightly different size. 

 

There are standard battery case sizes. 

 

Groups 

https://www.batteryequivalents.com/bci-battery-group-size-chart.html

 

 

However looking at that the Fogstar 280 don't seem to conform so maybe they are not a 'drop in' type. 

 

It is possible that suppliers are moving away from the rather misleading 'drop in' terminology. 

But there are loads of different sized lead acid batteries, when I changed from Shield to Trojan I had to modify the battery box 

[magnetman]

It does look like the term 'drop in replacement' is becoming obsolete. 

 

Not sure where it came from. Sterling? 

 

Also did Fogstar originate from Sterling ? They seem very local. 

 

 

[booke23]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

I guess some sort of ratchet strap arrangement might work?

 

That's what my last boat had and it always passed BSS. 

[magnetman]

Off topic but I still think it is interesting that Fogstar can do a 10 year warranty where Sterling does a 5 year warranty.

 

 

1 minute ago, booke23 said:

 

That's what my last boat had and it always passed BSS. 

 

If the batteries are in a box on the uxter plate/counter something must be welded on the plate to fix the straps onto. 

Presumably on a Boat which has already passed a BS inspection there will be something suitable otherwise they would have been free to move and failed the test previously. 

[booke23]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If the batteries are in a box on the uxter plate/counter something must be welded on the plate to fix the straps onto. 

 

Yes, my straps were attached to steel brackets welded to the uxter plate.