Restricted use of marina engineers

[GUMPY]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

I'm surprised, their markup on champagne is about 150% (still less than some places!) so they must have said goodbye to a massive chunk of money by doing that...

We took up a whole floor of the restaurant however we fitted the reception in between the lunch sitting and the evening sitting so dead time for them. We then went to The Island Queen for after dinner drinks🫢

The bill for 50 covers including wine at Le Mercury was about £1200 not much by today's standards but we have been married 20 years😉

[Sea Dog]

I think we should also consider the security aspect here. What if everyone is used to seeing any Tom, Dick and Harry wandering on and off boats, starting engines, moving them, etc? If it's almost always the usual guy, the brass necked burglar or boat thief stands out to the staff or other moorers and quick check with the office will answer any suspicions.

[matty40s]

27 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

What if you went into a motorway service station, brought your own sandwiches, sat down and eat them at one of their tables? And you'd paid £35 for overnight parking?

They can't stop you eating your sandwiches in a non branded area, its against the original motorway services regulations introduced in the 60's.

I dont often do mobile work any more, but if I do, I clear it with marina( or customer does), I take my Public Liability Ins details with me, or email it to the marina first.

I will not pay a cut of invoice, or fee to a marina, that is between the moorer and marina, " if in doubt, take it out"

[Paul C]

38 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

 

Your addition of the £35 suggests this happened to you, but I think that is abnormal for a UK motorway service station

 

£35 is quite normal for HGV overnight parking https://www.welcomebreak.co.uk/journey-planner/information-for-hauliers/hgv-parking-charges/

39 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

AND were having a bloke service your car out in the car park at the same time?!

 

 

Motorway services don't offer a "service your car in the car park" facility to compete with your own brought-in help? Its not a useful comparison. 

 

The one I chose, illustrated a comparison between the on-site services offered (food and drink) for a paying user of the services (because they are paying for a service there, eg parking). Similar to how a marina moorer is a paying user, who wants to pay only for mooring, not the rest of the (often inflated and limited choice) extras offered. In other words, NOT just a passer-by who has stopped there for free.

Edited June 27, 2024 by Paul C

[IanD]

2 hours ago, GUMPY said:

We took up a whole floor of the restaurant however we fitted the reception in between the lunch sitting and the evening sitting so dead time for them. We then went to The Island Queen for after dinner drinks🫢

The bill for 50 covers including wine at Le Mercury was about £1200 not much by today's standards but we have been married 20 years😉

I think the situation there 20 years ago was probably very different to today... 😉

 

Also you now say you had wine there, your post implied that you took all your own...

 

I suspect very few licensed restaurants today will let you bring your own wine without imposing a huge cover charge, too much money lost and they are often struggling to survive anyway.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

I suspect very few licensed restaurants today will let you bring your own wine without imposing a huge cover charge, too much money lost and they are often struggling to survive anyway.

 

Yes the corkage charge is not trivial. But when you are taking your own wine to a wine club meet and it cost you perhaps £300 a bottle, £20 corkage is background noise. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Yes the corkage charge is not trivial. But when you are taking your own wine to a wine club meet and it cost you perhaps £300 a bottle, £20 corkage is background noise. 

I hardly think £300 per bottle is relevant to most people... 😉

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

I hardly think £300 per bottle is relevant to most people... 😉

 

It is to the type of people who want to take their own wine to a good restaurant because the wine list is inadequate.

 

 

[Laurie Booth]

10 hours ago, Old Tim said:

My marina has recently introduced a requirement that any engineering work on boats not undertaken by the owner must be undertaken by the marina’s named engineer, and a fee of £50 per day will be levied if this engineer is not used. No charge will be levied for work undertaken by an outsider if such work is beyond the scope of the marina engineer.

 

As this approach precludes me from choosing between engineers in order to find the best deal - as well as ‘fining’ me if I do not comply – is it legal or is it contrary to competition regulations? Is this approach now an industry standard?

 

I have enjoyed mooring at this marina for the last 35 plus years, but resent this change which seems to reduce my autonomy – let alone reducing the work that is available to outside contractors - solely to increase the revenue of the marina owners. I have raised the issue with the marina management but to no avail.

 

I would very much like to hear the experiences of fellow boaters on this matter, and would welcome their guidance.

I had the same with a marina I was with so I left the marina. Their "Engineer" total rubbish. 

5 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

I can honestly say that I cannot ever remember going into a licensed restaurant that allowed you to bring your own alcohol in!

A good restaurant will allow you to bring your own wine, but expect to pay "corkage".

[GUMPY]

10 hours ago, IanD said:

Also you now say you had wine there, your post implied that you took all your own...

No I implied nothing the champagne was for the toast not with the meal, it's  a different drink altogether. 

Wine is red or white, champagne is fizzy😉

It's like saying Lager and real ale are the same.

Edited June 28, 2024 by GUMPY

[MtB]

Champagne is a type of wine! 

 

 

[GUMPY]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

Champagne is a type of wine! 

 

 

Lager is allegedly a type of beer🤔

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Lager is allegedly a type of beer🤔

 

Good lager in places like Germany is. UK-brewed weak-tasteless-piss-with-a-foreign-name-attached lager isn't... 😉 

[midnight cowboy]

17 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

I can honestly say that I cannot ever remember going into a licensed restaurant that allowed you to bring your own alcohol in!

Tim - they are getting rarer (in UK anyway) but they did/do exist

[Hudds Lad]

43 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Good lager in places like Germany is. UK-brewed weak-tasteless-piss-with-a-foreign-name-attached lager isn't... 😉 

Possibly due to the Reinheitsgebot, we probably allow any old crapola to be lobbed in the brewing process

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Possibly due to the Reinheitsgebot, we probably allow any old crapola to be lobbed in the brewing process

 

That helps, but there's also plenty of fairly boring bog-standard mass-produced lager in Germany even though it's brewed according to the rules -- which is why I said "good" lager... 😉 

 

Though even the boring stuff is still rarely as tasteless as UK-lager-piss...

[Hudds Lad]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

That helps, but there's also plenty of fairly boring bog-standard mass-produced lager in Germany even though it's brewed according to the rules -- which is why I said "good" lager... 😉 

 

Though even the boring stuff is still rarely as tasteless as UK-lager-piss...

I have a friend who's favourite tipple is Fosters

 

35+ years we've been trying to get him to try other things, he just won't have it.

No accounting for taste  

[Ronaldo47]

In the 1970's, a friend had a second job as the bar manager of an entertainment venue in the evenings.  He said that if the staff found anyone smuggling in a bottle of spirits, they would charge them corkage (about £15 from memory, quite a lot in the mid-1970's), but that that corkage charge was still considerably less than it would have cost the customer to buy a bottles-worth of spirits at their bar prices.  

 

Restricting or charging for having work done by a third party on something you keep on private property,  has long been the practice with many cemeteries, where you normally have to use their approved stone mason to erect a monument, or else pay a substantial fee.  

 

 

Edited June 28, 2024 by Ronaldo47
typos

[Old Tim]

Hi Everybody

 

Many thanks for your interesting and valuable comments.

 

Essentially, it would seem that the jury is out. Several of you have the same clauses in your own contracts, some see it as fair and others as questionable. Of course, it is relatively easy to sidestep the clause and take the boat elsewhere for work (always assuming that the boat can actually move!) but just being able to circumvent the clause does not make it right in the first place, of course! The comparison with pubs, service stations, corkage, etc. is an interesting one, but I think all such outlets are subject to competition pressures that they cannot escape whereas one might argue that the marina is using its position of power to force a control over competition. It is much more straightforward to change pub than it is to change marina.

 

I do realise, however, that the final choice is mine. I can either accept the conditions, fight them or change marina, but I am still concerned that competition is being manipulated to the marina’s advantage, and no, I cannot afford to take it to a lawyer!

 

If anyone still has the energy to contribute, I would welcome any further thoughts. In particular, on a scale of ‘Typical /Fairly Typical /Not Typical’ how wide-spread do you think such a practice relating to marina engineers is?

 

I will not be able to respond for a day or two, but many thanks to you all. It has been very helpful.

 

Old Tim

[IanD]

25 minutes ago, Old Tim said:

Hi Everybody

 

Many thanks for your interesting and valuable comments.

 

Essentially, it would seem that the jury is out. Several of you have the same clauses in your own contracts, some see it as fair and others as questionable. Of course, it is relatively easy to sidestep the clause and take the boat elsewhere for work (always assuming that the boat can actually move!) but just being able to circumvent the clause does not make it right in the first place, of course! The comparison with pubs, service stations, corkage, etc. is an interesting one, but I think all such outlets are subject to competition pressures that they cannot escape whereas one might argue that the marina is using its position of power to force a control over competition. It is much more straightforward to change pub than it is to change marina.

 

I do realise, however, that the final choice is mine. I can either accept the conditions, fight them or change marina, but I am still concerned that competition is being manipulated to the marina’s advantage, and no, I cannot afford to take it to a lawyer!

 

If anyone still has the energy to contribute, I would welcome any further thoughts. In particular, on a scale of ‘Typical /Fairly Typical /Not Typical’ how wide-spread do you think such a practice relating to marina engineers is?

 

I will not be able to respond for a day or two, but many thanks to you all. It has been very helpful.

 

Old Tim

 

That's one view. An alternative is that the marina employs and pays for onsite staff and facilities to do maintenance for the benefit of all the boaters in the marina who use them, and it's in everybody's interest to make sure they're fully utilised -- because if they're not there's a risk that the marina shuts them down as uneconomic, or puts the prices charged to boaters up to make them economic.

 

It's just like a pub with a kitchen insisting that you buy their food and don't bring in your own, which I don't think most people think is unreasonable since they have to pay for the kitchen and staff.

 

If you don't want to eat their food, go to another pub you do like, or one without a kitchen that will be happy for you eat your own or order it in... 😉 

[Momac]

I see you can't afford legal action. But if any individual should take legal action against the marina  they should not  expect  to succeed and they are not likely to be invited to renew their mooring contract.

I am sure a similar clause is within the contract I have . Others have said the same so it's quite normal. 

 

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Old Tim said:

The comparison with pubs, service stations, corkage, etc. is an interesting one, but I think all such outlets are subject to competition pressures that they cannot escape whereas one might argue that the marina is using its position of power to force a control over competition. It is much more straightforward to change pub than it is to change marina.

You may be subject to a notice period, but otherwise it is little more difficult to change mooring provider than to change pub. There are hundreds of other mooring locations out there if you look.

[blackrose]

On 27/06/2024 at 12:22, Tonka said:

You book the engineer you want and then they work on the boat outside of the marina 

 

Yes, does your boat move? Is there a convenient mooring nearby? Just take your boat out of the marina and you can have whoever you want do the work without paying the marina anything.

 

Or perhaps it's just the principle of this marina rule that you object to and you're not actually looking for a practical solution.

[Lady M]

Ideally you need a convenient mooring with parking for the engineer's vehicle.  In busier areas, you won't know if there is a vacant space until you move the boat. 

[Laurie Booth]

21 hours ago, IanD said:

 

That helps, but there's also plenty of fairly boring bog-standard mass-produced lager in Germany even though it's brewed according to the rules -- which is why I said "good" lager... 😉 

 

Though even the boring stuff is still rarely as tasteless as UK-lager-piss...

I love "Watney's Red Barrel"