Baton Twirlers Stage Protest (again)

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

yes, I’ve saved myself £800 this month by not having a mortgage, £1000 by not renting, another few hundred with not paying council tax,

water rates, a lecky bill, a gas bill and so on,

mugs game, who’d choose to do that?

why choose a life of debt for oneself and then grumble at folk for opting out?

 

Feeloaders Unite 👍

 

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

yes, I’ve saved myself £800 this month by not having a mortgage, £1000 by not renting, another few hundred with not paying council tax,

water rates, a lecky bill, a gas bill and so on,

mugs game, who’d choose to do that?

why choose a life of debt for oneself and then grumble at folk for opting out?

 

Feeloaders Unite 👍

 

If some people dont pay  you will have nothing either very quickly 

[Paul C]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

why choose a life of debt for oneself and then grumble at folk for opting out?

 

 

Do you mean a mortgage? Of course, a mortgage eventually gets paid and then you own a property (probably including land) - an appreciating asset. A boat doesn't really appreciate.....of course, its like comparing chalk and cheese but its not as simple as "boating is cheaper"

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

yes, I’ve saved myself £800 this month by not having a mortgage, £1000 by not renting, another few hundred with not paying council tax,

water rates, a lecky bill, a gas bill and so on,

mugs game, who’d choose to do that?

why choose a life of debt for oneself and then grumble at folk for opting out?

 

Feeloaders Unite 👍

 

 

 

Me!

 

Because I actually do something useful to contribute to society and get paid quite well for it.

 

Instead of freeloading. 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

15 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

yes, I’ve saved myself £800 this month by not having a mortgage, £1000 by not renting, another few hundred with not paying council tax,

water rates, a lecky bill, a gas bill and so on,

mugs game, who’d choose to do that?

why choose a life of debt for oneself and then grumble at folk for opting out?

 

Feeloaders Unite 👍

 

 

It's not the opting out of the rat race that's the issue, it's the refusal (from some) to show any consideration or courtesy to other boaters that grates.

 

If I'm doing a fortnight at a popular visitor mooring I usually use pins just past the jetty or rings, allowing others to easily use the VM.

 

Not so much in winter, but that's reasonable in my book as there's far fewer users to share with. 

 

 

Edited March 30 by TheBiscuits
Grammar

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Me!

 

Because I actually do something useful to contribute to society and get paid quite well for it.

 

Instead of freeloading. 

 

 

oh yes,

forgot you are a landlord,

 

 

10 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Do you mean a mortgage? Of course, a mortgage eventually gets paid and then you own a property (probably including land) - an appreciating asset. A boat doesn't really appreciate.....of course, its like comparing chalk and cheese but its not as simple as "boating is cheaper"

had me boat valued earlier this month and it’s doubled in value over 12 years 🤷‍♀️

but that’s not the point,

 

the point is I have opted out of owing the bank or a landlord,

should I be penalised?

mtb thinks I should

[TheBiscuits]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

I actually do something useful to contribute to society

 

Help increase the use of fossil fuels? 😁

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

7 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

it's the refusal (from some) to show any consideration or courtesy to other boaters that grates.

I think this London lot are a different kettle of fish all together,

which is why I don’t support levelling ‘up’,

 

[Paul C]

9 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

oh yes,

forgot you are a landlord,

 

 

had me boat valued earlier this month and it’s doubled in value over 12 years 🤷‍♀️

but that’s not the point,

 

the point is I have opted out of owing the bank or a landlord,

should I be penalised?

mtb thinks I should

 

The "opting out" element is a red herring. Its just a philosophy towards borrowing money vs saving up first then buying/owning something. People get a mortgage on a house simply because they don't have savings or the ability to save in the timeframe they'd need it. So, they enter into a mortgage agreement. (Of course, its also worth considering this is secured lending rather than unsecured lending).

[Rincewind]

6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Would cost more in bureaucracy than it would bring in, especially as just about all of it would end up being paid by the benefit system one way or another.

It would not cost a penny more.

Boaters that buy a normal license have to prove that they have insurance, a home mooring and a BS certificate otherwise they do not get issued with a license.  Its the applicant that has to prove they have the documents in question, CRT do not do the legwork work for you!

The bridge hoppers are just avoiding paying mooring fees and tax dodging, as we are all well aware.

Just a few weeks ago there was a You-tube feature (was it on here?) where one woman was showing off her new build fatty (boat, not body ) and explaining (complaining) how she was forced to move every so often to comply with the CC license conditions. - Plenty of money to commission a new build and have it fitted out to her luxury spec but no intent whatsoever to financially support the canal infrastructure by paying for a mooring.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

The "opting out" element is a red herring. Its just a philosophy towards borrowing money vs saving up first then buying/owning something. People get a mortgage on a house simply because they don't have savings or the ability to save in the timeframe they'd need it. So, they enter into a mortgage agreement. (Of course, its also worth considering this is secured lending rather than unsecured lending).

it’s all a roundabout argument,

I only have a boat because I sold me house and spent the profit buying the boat,

 

 

[David Mack]

35 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

Boaters that buy a normal license have to prove that they have insurance, a home mooring and a BS certificate otherwise they do not get issued with a license. 

No they don't. Boaters applying for a licence have to declare that they have insurance and, if appropriate, a home mooring and provide relevant details as part of the application process. If the boat is already registered with CRT the BSC details should have been uploaded to the system by the Examiner. CRT only check a sample of the insurance and mooring info provided, so in most cases that information is not proved.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

No they don't.

 

Yes they do, once in a while.

 

I've had CRT demand to see my insurance certificate at least once. 

 

 

[Rincewind]

17 minutes ago, David Mack said:

No they don't. Boaters applying for a licence have to declare 

Ok, Guilty as charged mi Lud!

But you get the jist....

BTW, I have had a BSC where the examiner has submitted the pass report but it was not updated on CRT's website, I had to update it myself when my auto renew application was subsequently rejected by the system.

The point is, as MtB has confirmed, CRT are capable of checking credentials are in order - if they so wish.

[Tam & Di]

There are infinitely more cars than boats, but DVLC know if your car has tax, MOT and insurance. It is obviously possible for C&RT to create a similar system to give them the information they require rather than relying on the iffey word of the owner.

[Chris Lowe]

The Beeb have called them bargees as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68694486

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

The "opting out" element is a red herring. Its just a philosophy towards borrowing money vs saving up first then buying/owning something. People get a mortgage on a house simply because they don't have savings or the ability to save in the timeframe they'd need it. So, they enter into a mortgage agreement. (Of course, its also worth considering this is secured lending rather than unsecured lending).

is it a red herring?

one doesn't have to buy a house at all, ever,

if one doesn’t want to,

 

why should I be berated for choosing not to have a mortgage or pay rent?

 

once upon a time when I did have a mortgage, 

there used to be several squats in the town, 

fair play I thought,

good on ‘em,

I’ve never knocked anyone for looking for a cheaper life style and not wanting to play the game,

 

the best squat was in a pub,

the Dock and Railway was it’s original name, can’t remember what it was called in its final years. 
I attended a big party there days before it was demolished. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Chris Lowe said:

The Beeb have called them bargees as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68694486

So why they all standing outside the Flapper in Brum?

haven’t read the article just looked at photo

I do know there was a rally at Cambrian Wharf back in November,

The photo must be mixed in from then,

 

 

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Yes they do, once in a while.

 

I've had CRT demand to see my insurance certificate at least once. 

 

 

As I said, they check a sample. And on one occasion that included you.

[MrsM]

15 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I hear Council Tax is going up, 👍

It’s been such a bargain for such a long time it’s well over due a good increase,

I always thought CT was supposed to reflect the value of the house?

perhaps CT ought to rise at the same rate as the value of the house?

In which case it would be going down for many people to reflect the current downturn in property prices thanks to Bizzie Lizzie et al. Hands up every one whose Council Tax has gone down. No? Didn't think so.

[Peanut]

Your house has to move out of band, then you can argue for a revaluation. Easier if you have been put into the wrong band to start with.

[magpie patrick]

16 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

CC licences should only be granted to those who actually live on board for the duration of the licence. Anything else is daft.

The "thought concept" someone mentioned above, of a person with two boats, one CC registered and one home moored, is illogical. If boat A is being continually cruised, the other boat is permanently unused. If boat B is lived on, boat A can't cruise. If boat A is a leisure boat, then it can't CC. If boat B is the leisure boat, then boat A can't CC (unless holidays are always less than 14 days). Logically, both should have moorings.

I am aware that there are people on the forum who do in fact have boats A and B, registered differently. I'd be interest to read how they justify it, because I'm sure they can, though as I say , I can't see it, unless the CC boat is just dumped round the system, using the towpath as a free mooring, NBTA style, (which is why there's now a surcharge, of course).

ETA NB I don't really care much what anyone does, dumper, CCer, home moorer, shiny or yoghurt pot. Doesn't affect me much, I'm just interested in the argument/debate.

 

Arthur, you don't often talk rubbish but that bit about only liveaboards can CC is completely wrong. On many occasions I have made long journeys around the canal system whilst returning home to work every week - one summer Ripple went from Marple to Middlewich, then along the shroppie and onto Nottingham then to Stourport to Leigh to Anderton, back to Shardlow then to Birmingham, then Stourbridge, Froghall and Anderton again and I held down a job in Bath. To my mind, living on board holds one's cruising aspirations back. 

[Paul C]

6 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

is it a red herring?

one doesn't have to buy a house at all, ever,

if one doesn’t want to,

 

why should I be berated for choosing not to have a mortgage or pay rent?

 

once upon a time when I did have a mortgage, 

there used to be several squats in the town, 

fair play I thought,

good on ‘em,

I’ve never knocked anyone for looking for a cheaper life style and not wanting to play the game,

 

the best squat was in a pub,

the Dock and Railway was it’s original name, can’t remember what it was called in its final years. 
I attended a big party there days before it was demolished. 

 

 

 

Its a red herring because its not about "alternative lifestyle" etc, its about whether CCers comply with the law or not. (And by that I mean, actions which are clearly against the spirit of the law and might lead to enforcement eg staying in one place for months, not the technicality of "I'm not a criminal yet because I've not gone to court and been convicted").

 

A corollary might be that instead of going out to work and earning £12/hour in a boring job, someone chooses an "alternate" income which involves stealing cars and selling them. One is within the law, one is not.

 

There's plenty of CCers who DO comply with the law and plenty who, quite clearly, don't. 

[Momac]

On 29/03/2024 at 21:46, TheBiscuits said:

 

"Continuous Cruiser" is a BW made up term 

All words are made up and many come into commonly understood use . 'Language' is in itself a made up word. New words and terms come and go 

If the term 'continuous cruiser'  was made up by BW it must have been in use over more than a decade?

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

There are infinitely more cars than boats, but DVLC know if your car has tax, MOT and insurance. It is obviously possible for C&RT to create a similar system to give them the information they require rather than relying on the iffey word of the owner.

Funny they don't rely on the boaters word that he has a mooring any more, but that could cost them money 

[peterboat]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Funny they don't rely on the boaters word that he has a mooring any more, but that could cost them money 

Yes my boat that has for years been in Tulleys suddenly wasn't, CRT had to pit it there same as the new one. Dont talk to me about licensing I have had a one month nightmare with them!