Identifying a Lister-Petter (Saab?)

[pedroinlondon]

Hi.

I have recently bought a boat with the pictured Lister Petter 40HP.

I understand it is not possible to determine the Lister Petter model from the serial number alone, so any tips on what this is would be very welcomed.

Ideally I would like to identify the type so I could get a full manual and drawings, if any are available on the light or dark webs.

Under Type it has "L4-186GB", but google had nothing to say about that.

Thanks

[magnetman]

Is this the Mitsubishi Lister ?

No its a Sabb Lister

The engine Plate is glued on not riveted.

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

41 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

Under Type it has "L4-186GB", but google had nothing to say about that.

Are you sure the G isn't an L? Manuals come up for L4-186LB. A change in font from the L in L4 though.

[Peugeot 106]

It’s Lister Petter LPW 4 cylinder 40 bhp build 48 (marine build) built in 2007 also known as Canal Star or Alpha. All spares Manuals etc available from Richard at MES Midlands or Sleeman Hawker Dorset and others. Manuals and Parts List also available online FOC

[magnetman]

https://www.sleeman-hawken.com/sabb-l4-lister-petter/

 

sabb

3 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

It’s Lister Petter LPW 4 cylinder 40 bhp build 48 (marine build) built in 2007 also known as Canal Star or Alpha. All spares Manuals etc available from Richard at MES Midlands or Sleeman Hawker Dorset and others. Manuals and Parts List also available online FOC

I  

 

A similar topic came on here quite recently.

Edited February 14 by magnetman
got out of bed too early

[pedroinlondon]

34 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

It’s Lister Petter LPW 4 cylinder 40 bhp build 48 (marine build) built in 2007 also known as Canal Star or Alpha. All spares Manuals etc available from Richard at MES Midlands or Sleeman Hawker Dorset and others. Manuals and Parts List also available online FOC

Thanks a lot. I got a manual from https://www.winget.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/LISTER-PETTER-LPW-LPWS-OPS-MANUAL.pdf 

The pictures are insanely bad I should be able to find better ones now with the full reference.

Thanks a lot everyone.

I think I'll be able to find my way around the engine somewhat...

[Peugeot 106]

37 minutes ago, magnetman said:

https://www.sleeman-hawken.com/sabb-l4-lister-petter/

 

sabb

I  

 

A similar topic came on here quite recently.

Suggest you ring Richard or Sue  at MES or Keith at Sleeman. (Plenty of others are available!) 

[Tony Brooks]

If it is the one with hydraulic valve lifters, on no account try to extend the oil and filter change intervals.

[Peugeot 106]

3 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

Thanks a lot. I got a manual from https://www.winget.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/LISTER-PETTER-LPW-LPWS-OPS-MANUAL.pdf 

The pictures are insanely bad I should be able to find better ones now with the full reference.

That’s the one. Suggest you read up about oil changes and hydraulic tappets. These are different from most other engines. I use Premier 10W40 API - CC oil as advised by ex Lister Engineers and the manual.  For the LPW direct injection which you have the oil change is I think 250 hours or it may be 500 hours with a bigger filter.  Check the manual. Mine is LPWS indirect injection which is the same as yours but indirect injection and the interval is only 100 hours as it runs dirtier on start up apparently. 
 

I have been told that regular oil changes and oil spec are very important with these engines because of the hydraulic tappets though I’m sure others will have different opinions. I don’t see the point in risking it and stick to the manual instructions

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If it is the one with hydraulic valve lifters, on no account try to extend the oil and filter change intervals.

Agreed whole heartedly. It’s a bit like smoking. We all know the odd people who live to a hundred and smoke 50 Woodies a day but most have gone long ago………

PS I think it’s a good engine!

[pedroinlondon]

54 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

That’s the one. Suggest you read up about oil changes and hydraulic tappets. These are different from most other engines. I use Premier 10W40 API - CC oil as advised by ex Lister Engineers and the manual.  For the LPW direct injection which you have the oil change is I think 250 hours or it may be 500 hours with a bigger filter.  Check the manual. Mine is LPWS indirect injection which is the same as yours but indirect injection and the interval is only 100 hours as it runs dirtier on start up apparently. 
 

I have been told that regular oil changes and oil spec are very important with these engines because of the hydraulic tappets though I’m sure others will have different opinions. I don’t see the point in risking it and stick to the manual instructions

Agreed whole heartedly. It’s a bit like smoking. We all know the odd people who live to a hundred and smoke 50 Woodies a day but most have gone long ago………

PS I think it’s a good engine!

Thanks a lot Peugeot.

I need the drawings asap for a tank change, and maintenance will follow later.

This is an ex lifeboat and the fuel filler needs to be outside like a regular canal boat, and a few other things like a breather pipe and fuel return hose, whatever that may be.

I'll take the opportunity also to remove the ginomormous diesel tank and fit a 45L.

I'll probably post a new post on that one tomorrow...

 

As for the oil change and maintenance in these past 17 years... not sure it happened.

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

If it is the one with hydraulic valve lifters, on no account try to extend the oil and filter change intervals.

Thanks Tony

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

 

This is an ex lifeboat ...

 

As for the oil change and maintenance in these past 17 years... not sure it happened.

 

That is an interesting point. 

 

There may be a standard maintenance regime to take care of ageing generally. 

 

It is a bit unlikely, if you bought it after it was decommissioned, that there will be hours on the engine. 

 

Interesting engine to play with. 

 

Full service always a wise move anyway. 

 

 

 

 

[pedroinlondon]

24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

That is an interesting point. 

 

There may be a standard maintenance regime to take care of ageing generally. 

 

It is a bit unlikely, if you bought it after it was decommissioned, that there will be hours on the engine. 

 

Interesting engine to play with. 

 

Full service always a wise move anyway. 

 

 

 

 

They would be doing the maintenance very regularly while the boat was on the oil rig at the ready, but it could be that it never got to move from storage somehwere, or that it was decommissioned soon after, in which cases no one would have bothered.

 

[David Mack]

What's the connection between Lister Petter and Sabb? Did Sabb market LP engines in Norway?

(And note its Sabb - one 'a' and two 'b's that make marine engines and Saab that used to make cars).

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What's the connection between Lister Petter and Sabb? Did Sabb market LP engines in Norway?

(And note its Sabb - one 'a' and two 'b's that make marine engines and Saab that used to make cars).

 

More badge branding, it seems. There seems to be more of it these days. I have a feeling some Volvo Pentas are actually Perkins. BMC 1.5s have been sold as Westerbeke, and so on.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

More badge branding, it seems. There seems to be more of it these days.

 

Especially in the world of light commercial vans. There are only about three available nowadays apparently, despite the wide range of brands. 

 

Posh Mercedes Vito vans are for example, identical to those ghastly cheap Renault vans when viewed from underneath and/or under bonnet. 

 

[Peugeot 106]

Another thing I’d check if it’s had seawater cooling is the exhaust manifold. I’ve seen one off a lifeboat that looked fine until it was cleaned up when it was discovered that corrosion had got the inside of it and it leaked when pressure tested. It was seawater cooled I think and the seawater was piped into the exhaust after the manifold.   I’m not sure how long or under what conditions it had been stored after being taken off the life boat. Yours is probably fine but I thought I’d mention it.

Around 50 years ago I worked on semi submersible drilling rigs (wildcat wells)  in the North Sea and we once took a lifeboat out for a spin. It was absolutely terrifying. The worst bit was being winched back on board. It’s a long way down and even further back up when it kept swinging into the rig leg resulting in a hole in the lifeboat

The engines were started on compressed air stored in bottles on the boat in case electric starters sparked and BOOM….i presume they had flame arrestors in the exhaust. Happy days and very happy money!

 

[Steve56]

1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Another thing I’d check if it’s had seawater cooling is the exhaust manifold. I’ve seen one off a lifeboat that looked fine until it was cleaned up when it was discovered that corrosion had got the inside of it and it leaked when pressure tested. It was seawater cooled I think and the seawater was piped into the exhaust after the manifold.   I’m not sure how long or under what conditions it had been stored after being taken off the life boat. Yours is probably fine but I thought I’d mention it.

Around 50 years ago I worked on semi submersible drilling rigs (wildcat wells)  in the North Sea and we once took a lifeboat out for a spin. It was absolutely terrifying. The worst bit was being winched back on board. It’s a long way down and even further back up when it kept swinging into the rig leg resulting in a hole in the lifeboat

The engines were started on compressed air stored in bottles on the boat in case electric starters sparked and BOOM….i presume they had flame arrestors in the exhaust. Happy days and very happy money!

 

This engine would have been keel cooled so no worries about corrosion.

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

What's the connection between Lister Petter and Sabb? Did Sabb market LP engines in Norway?

(And note its Sabb - one 'a' and two 'b's that make marine engines and Saab that used to make cars).

Not really much of a connection. Sabb would purchase a marinised engine from Lister Petter and then carry out various modifications to make it suitable for lifeboat use.

[Tony Brooks]

6 hours ago, Steve56 said:

This engine would have been keel cooled so no worries about corrosion.

 

Without inspecting a particular engine, you can't be sure of that. Many sea boat keel cooled engines used  a raw water cooled manifold and then injected the raw water into the exhaust.

[Steve56]

I can quite safely say that. During my time as a Lister Petter engineer I visited the Sabb factory in Bergen to assist them with the engine. Also as a lifeboat it is necessary to be able to run the engines out of the water for short periods, hence they would be 100% keel cooled. As the photo shows the engine is fitted with a dry exhaust.

[cheesegas]

7 hours ago, Steve56 said:

This engine would have been keel cooled so no worries about corrosion.

Not really much of a connection. Sabb would purchase a marinised engine from Lister Petter and then carry out various modifications to make it suitable for lifeboat use.

Keel cooled lifeboats often become raw water cooled once they're brought on the canals...the cooler is external, usually a grid of pipes located under the engine. Seen a couple where the pipes have been damaged from underwater obstructions and the owner is none the wiser as the engine still happily pumps around the canal water. They only realise when it's time to drain the coolant and the boat almost sinks! Or the engine overheats due to crap getting stuck in the pump.

[Peugeot 106]

57 minutes ago, Steve56 said:

I can quite safely say that. During my time as a Lister Petter engineer I visited the Sabb factory in Bergen to assist them with the engine. Also as a lifeboat it is necessary to be able to run the engines out of the water for short periods, hence they would be 100% keel cooled. As the photo shows the engine is fitted with a dry exhaust.

Makes sense. When I made my trip we started the engine on deck. I remember that as none of us could work out how to start it until we were told about the air. We all felt a bit silly and were glad it was only a practice.

 

On the one I saw seawater was injected into the exhaust - the injection bend was badly corroded too. I didn’t know from the photo whether the picture is of the engine in its new or old home or what mods had been carried out so thought it was worth mentioning as the manifold I saw was supposedly ex lifeboat ( and the same colour!) it had probably been reinstalled in a yacht or launch in its second life and altered to seawater cooling

 

pedroinlondon you are now in expert land for these Alpha engines with Steve. Although others have excellent knowledge on a wide variety of engines and other boats bits  Steve is your specialist on this forum for Alpha’s. 
 

just remember you can’t be lackadaisical with the servicing with these engines. They are excellent engines but won’t stand the abuse of their forebearers. Happily most of the the bits are readily available at a reasonable price (compared to some other marques)

 

Good luck

 

 

 

 

[Tonka]

14 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Especially in the world of light commercial vans. There are only about three available nowadays apparently, despite the wide range of brands. 

 

Posh Mercedes Vito vans are for example, identical to those ghastly cheap Renault vans when viewed from underneath and/or under bonnet. 

 

Are you sure. 

I know the Vauxhall Vivaro and the Renault Traffic were the same

[cuthound]

On 14/02/2024 at 23:29, MtB said:

 

Especially in the world of light commercial vans. There are only about three available nowadays apparently, despite the wide range of brands. 

 

Posh Mercedes Vito vans are for example, identical to those ghastly cheap Renault vans when viewed from underneath and/or under bonnet. 

 

 

As are Mercedes A Class. Much cheaper to buy the exact same spares for a Renault for your A Class.

[magnetman]

A number of yars ago I had a gentleman at a place called 'Docklands tires and exhausts' who did my MoT tests. One day he had a Porsche up on the car lift thing and the owner was present. I commented on how the underside was interesting and he said 'yeah, its basically a Volkswagen'. The Porsche driver bloke looked a little miffed. 

 

It was quite amusing. 

 

I had a Saab 9000 Aero at the time. Best car ever.