No water from the taps!

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Its fixed !!!  Many thanks to all who contributed.  Bled off screws on 3 expansion pipes ( hot  cold and C heater )  and screwed / unscrewed 2 gate valves alongside calorifier.   Guess they must have stuck or grit in them having run out of water.  Run engine and central heating and all working 

Thanks again.  

 

Pleased it is fixed, and thanks for coming back and telling us. I don't understand what a hot or cold expansion pipe is, what it is for, or why they have bleed points on them.

[Norm55]

There are 3 like this. One had glycol in the others water.   I assumed they were for expansion as there is no expansion vessel 

[Tracy D'arth]

Wicked plumbing, no wonder you had problems.

[Norm55]

Eton mess anyone ?   

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

 

There are 3 like this. One had glycol in the others water.   I assumed they were for expansion as there is no expansion vessel 

 

Unlikely because once all the air is out then the liquid is considered as incompressible so it can not ct like an expansion vessel.  The one you show is more likely to be a simple bleed point, but the turned down and is likely to trap air, so not so effective as a bleed.  The glycol one is probably an air vent for the calorifier engine coil. Still if it is not broke etc.

[ditchcrawler]

Did @Jake150 sort their problem out

 

[jonathanA]

I do hope the blue/brown/green&yellow wires are not the mains electric supply to the immersion heater.   -Really should have an sheath or be in flexible conduit as they look like they could easily rub against metalwork with shocking results

[MtB]

6 hours ago, jonathanA said:

I do hope the blue/brown/green&yellow wires are not the mains electric supply to the immersion heater.   -Really should have an sheath or be in flexible conduit as they look like they could easily rub against metalwork with shocking results

 

Bound to be mains. 12Vdc would be red and black with no earth wire. 

[Ianws]

28 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Bound to be mains. 12Vdc would be red and black with no earth wire. 

Depends who did the wiring. 

11 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Wicked plumbing, no wonder you had problems.

Looks like it could have been designed by Escher. 

[jonathanA]

7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Bound to be mains. 12Vdc would be red and black with no earth wire. 

 🙂 I don't think there is any agreed or defined standard for marine wiring colour codes (I'm sure Alan D E will be able to quote the RCD/ISO spec if there is  🙂 )

 

they look a bit thin for a 12v immersion, i'm sure @Norm55 has other issues to deal with, but just wanted to alert him in case he didn't realise, could be its not relevant as there is no immersion heater or nothing on the other end of the wires. 

[Norm55]

Its a good point.  There is an immersion heater wired and i will check next time am there if it is within sheathing en route to the consumer board.  Originally it was switched via the rcd on consumer board until i demanded a separate switch / timer.   Such is the standard of an Eton Mess boat 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

🙂 I don't think there is any agreed or defined standard for marine wiring colour codes (I'm sure Alan D E will be able to quote the RCD/ISO spec if there is  🙂 )

 

Your wish is my command :

 

4.1 The protective conductor insulation shall be green or green with a yellow stripe.

Neither colour shall be used for current-carrying conductors.

 

NOTE The equipotential bonding conductor of the d.c. electrical system (see ISO 10133) also uses green, or green with a yellow stripe, insulation and is connected to various exposed conductive parts of direct-current electrical devices, other extraneous conductive parts and the d.c. negative ground/earth

 

10.7 Live, neutral and protective conductors of the a.c. system shall be identified.

Identification may be made by the insulation colour, by numbering or other means, if a wiring diagram for the system indicating the means of identification is supplied with the craft.

Insulation colours used, in conformance with IEC 60446:

live conductors: black or brown;

neutral conductors: white or light blue;

protective conductors: green or green with a yellow stripe (see 4.1).

 

NOTE A colour stripe may be added to live and neutral conductor insulation for identification in the system. Yellow, green or green with a yellow stripe insulation colour shall not be used for live or neutral conductors of the a.c. system

Edited February 15 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

NOTE A colour stripe may be added to live and neutral conductor insulation for identification in the system. Yellow, green or green with a yellow stripe insulation colour shall not be used for live or neutral conductors of the a.c. system

But yellow with a green stripe is permitted?

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

But yellow with a green stripe is permitted?

Yes so long as its not used for live or neutral. 

 

Guess there is no real difference between green with yellow stripe and yellow with green stripe.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Yes so long as its not used for live or neutral. 

 

Guess there is no real difference between green with yellow stripe and yellow with green stripe.

 

A stripe is (used to be, may still be) less than one third of the circumference, the solid colour being the other two-thirds.

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Yes so long as its not used for live or neutral. 

 

Guess there is no real difference between green with yellow stripe and yellow with green stripe.

As long as it is a stripe and not a tracer as in telephone wiring, then you need a base colour and a tracer colour.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Looking at the components and what looks like a clean Web/Ebh exhaust at the back, it looks like a new build, would of thought modern new builds would of had the cable in conduit/sleeving as they aren’t cheap.

Edited February 15 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[David Mack]

21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

A stripe is (used to be, may still be) less than one third of the circumference, the solid colour being the other two-thirds.

Exactly my point. Green with a yellow stripe is not the same as yellow with a green stripe, but surely both should be prohibited for use as a live or neutral wire.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Exactly my point. Green with a yellow stripe is not the same as yellow with a green stripe, but surely both should be prohibited for use as a live or neutral wire.

 

Agreed, in a gloomy engine hole it'd be an easy mistake.

 

I don't write the specifications, just post the relevant sections when asked.

[jonathanA]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Exactly my point. Green with a yellow stripe is not the same as yellow with a green stripe, but surely both should be prohibited for use as a live or neutral wire.

yeah and it would seem that yellow with a green stripe *could* be used for live/neutral and technically be within the spec, even though any sane person would think it was bonkers....  

 

just a good example of why you should never assume anything where boats are concerned ! 

[Tracy D'arth]

I consider the change of the three phase mains colour codes to brown, grey, black as live phases to be a mistake too. They are not so easy to differentiate in poor light as the earlier red, blue, yellow codes.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

yeah and it would seem that yellow with a green stripe *could* be used for live/neutral and technically be within the spec, even though any sane person would think it was bonkers.... 

 

 

So, given there are three wires, who here can suggest what each conductor is doing if not carrying the 230Vac mains I suggested earlier?

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I consider the change of the three phase mains colour codes to brown, grey, black as live phases to be a mistake too. They are not so easy to differentiate in poor light as the earlier red, blue, yellow codes.

Wasn't this done for the same reasons single-phase colours changed to brown/blue/green-yellow -- harmonisation across the EU and easier to see for people with the most common forms of colour blindness?

 

"Under the IEC 60446 standard only black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, grey, white, pink and turquoise are acceptable colours for labelling wires. Countries must choose an appropriate selection of colours that eliminates the possibility of confusion."

 

Before anyone says "why would anyone who's colour-blind be doing electrical work anyway?", my father-in-law was red-green colour blind (as is my son, it's a recessive hereditary gene in mostly males), and if he hadn't somehow got past the Post Office entrance exam for electrical engineering in the 1930s he wouldn't have been building and debugging Colossus in the 1940s... 😉

[Tracy D'arth]

I had a male school friend who went to work for the GPO. As an apprentice he did a lot of wiring work on the new main trunk cabling in Derbyshire, cables with many hundreds of pairs.

When they discovered many faults it was established that he was red/green colour blind.

 

He went on to work for Plessey. And became a rally driver. We used to joke about how he negotiated coloured traffic lights. His response was usually that he just ignored them if in doubt!

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I had a male school friend who went to work for the GPO. As an apprentice he did a lot of wiring work on the new main trunk cabling in Derbyshire, cables with many hundreds of pairs.

When they discovered many faults it was established that he was red/green colour blind.

 

He went on to work for Plessey. And became a rally driver. We used to joke about how he negotiated coloured traffic lights. His response was usually that he just ignored them if in doubt!

 

Coloured traffic lights aren't such a problem so long as you remember red is at the top and green at the bottom. Resistor colour codes, however... 😉