Enclosed bow

[magnetman]

7 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

But if you knew about the finger tip hand rail that your builder does you probably would of got one, as it’s just safer when moving along the gunwales and can’t be seen.

Look out you'll get him mentally questioning the rudder !

To be fair running a length of 3/8 round bar along the inside of a cant handrail is quite a bit of welding needing doing carefully. 

 

Nice thing to have though.

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Look out you'll get him mentally questioning the rudder !

To be fair running a length of 3/8 round bar along the inside of a cant handrail is quite a bit of welding needing doing carefully. 

 

Nice thing to have though.

 

Why would I question something that successfully does exactly what it was supposed to, in spite of the naysayers? 😉

 

Not just quite a bit of welding, it also makes painting and fitting/sealing the solar panels properly more difficult, and for little benefit... 😉

 

(I seem to remember mentioning this to Ricky last year when the same subject came up while the hull was being built, and IIRC that was his reply)

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

One of the nicer more practical handrails I’ve seen IMO. Square handrail with a Northwich style handrail on top. Not to everyones taste but safe to grab.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

One of the nicer more practical handrails I’ve seen IMO. Square handrail with a Northwich style handrail on top. Not to everyones taste but safe to grab.

 

Have you had some nasty experience with (decent-sized) square handrails, or is this a theoretical safety concern rather than a practical one?

 

I've gone along the gunwales many times on boats with handrails like mine with no problems, they're plenty big enough to get a good grip on even when wet, and there's no chance of a nasty tweak to a finger or thumb on the support uprights -- which I have had on rails with them.

 

YMMV... 😉

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

 

 

Not that keen on the look of the cant/box handrails with something added on top. I know the box is easier from a fabrication point of view but there is something to be said for just having a raised tubular section and sorting the edges of the cabin top by welding a D bar along the length. 

 

Box handrails can be good for hiding things. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by magnetman

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Have you had some nasty experience with (decent-sized) square handrails, or is this a theoretical safety concern rather than a practical one?

 

I've gone along the gunwales many times on boats with handrails like mine with no problems, they're plenty big enough to get a good grip on even when wet, and there's no chance of a nasty tweak to a finger or thumb on the support uprights -- which I have had on rails with them.

 

YMMV... 😉

 I would say It’s more practical to have something you can hold on to and something to grab that you can wrap your fingers around should you loose balance, surely?

[IanD]

Just now, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 I would say It’s more practical to have something you can hold on to and something to grab that you can wrap your fingers around should you loose balance, surely?

In theory, yes. In practice I've never had any problem holding onto (big) square handrails like this. Have you?

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

One of the nicer more practical handrails I’ve seen IMO. Square handrail with a Northwich style handrail on top. Not to everyones taste but safe to grab.

 

Paint looks to have run badly under the top-rail

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

In theory, yes. In practice I've never had any problem holding onto (big) square handrails like this. Have you?

No, but it’s far easier having a grab handrail to move quickly being single handed should you need to get to the front of the boat in a lock or when you’ve only got a short lock landing. You don’t do single handed boating, so slightly different to having a crew and not needing to move quickly when needed and you can drop them off and stay on the boat.

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Paint looks to have run badly under the top-rail

And if you look in front of the pole it’s bubbled quite badly, or maybe the photo was taken after it rained🤔🤔🤔

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

And if you look in front of the pole it’s bubbled quite badly,

 

I noticed that but didn't want to be too critical - after all, we are only discussing the 'finger rail'.

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

No, but it’s far easier having a grab handrail to move quickly being single handed should you need to get to the front of the boat in a lock or when you’ve only got a short lock landing. You don’t do single handed boating, so slightly different to having a crew and not needing to move quickly when needed and you can drop them off and stay on the boat.

 

So you're saying something is unsafe when you've never used it, as opposed to me saying it's safe because I have with no problems? 😉

 

I have had to move along the gunwale fast on occasions, having a crew makes no difference -- when you've gotta go, you've gotta go. Haven't had a problem with a big square rail, have tweaked thumb and fingers painfully on the uprights more than once when sliding hand along the rail with the type you're recommending.

 

If you don't mind, having actually tried both I'll stick with what has worked for me not what hasn't... 🙂

 

(you of course can do as you see fit...)

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

44 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So you're saying something is unsafe when you've never used it, as opposed to me saying it's safe because I have with no problems? 😉

 

I have had to move along the gunwale fast on occasions, having a crew makes no difference -- when you've gotta go, you've gotta go. Haven't had a problem with a big square rail, have tweaked thumb and fingers painfully on the uprights more than once when sliding along the rail with the type you're recommending.

 

If you don't mind, having actually tried both I'll stick with what has worked for me not what hasn't... 🙂

 

(you of course can do as you see fit...)

But I have used them many times and I find the finger grip handrail much better, you never knew about it until I mentioned that your shell builder can do it. So I doubt you have ever tried it??

 I’ve shown many boaters my hidden finger grip handrail and they’ve all said what a good feature it was and they wished their handrail was the same. 
 But since your boat hasn’t got one you don’t need it, but thats your decision, just like your spring line shackles welded on the Gunwales, which most boaters will think aren’t needed and are a trip hazards when moving along the Gunwales, especially with no finger grip/handrail should you forget they’re there 😂

 Anyway the thread is about enclosed front ends and not your boat, but here’s a pic of you and your boat which has an enclosed front end that highlights a reason why a well/ bow deck can be useful.
Can I ask, if you had six onboard where would they all sit? Inside the boat? Maybe guests may not want to be all in one space, you’ve got to see my point.  As you say it’s all about the owners requirements.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[IanD]

44 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

But I have used them many times and I find the finger grip handrail much better, you never knew about it until I mentioned that your shell builder can do it. So I doubt you have ever tried it??

 I’ve shown many boaters my hidden finger grip handrail and they’ve all said what a good feature it was and they wished their handrail was the same. 
 But since your boat hasn’t got one you don’t need it, but thats your decision, just like your spring line shackles welded on the Gunwales, which most boaters will think aren’t needed and are a trip hazards when moving along the Gunwales, especially with no finger grip/handrail should you forget they’re there 😂

 Anyway the thread is about enclosed front ends and not your boat, but here’s a pic of you and your boat which has an enclosed front end that highlights a reason why a well/ bow deck can be useful. Can I ask, if you had six onboard where would they all sit? Inside the boat? Maybe guests may not want to be all in one space, you’ve got to see my point.  As you say it’s all about the owners requirements.

 

 

 

Last time you brought up the finger grip handrail -- last year IIRC -- I asked Ricky about it, as I said earlier. His advice was not to do it.

 

Similarly with the spring line shackles that you're so worried about -- they've proved vary useful, and not a trip hazard.

 

Normal complement is four, for who there's plenty of space in the semi-trad area. Or you can sit inside at the dinette with both sets of side doors open. With six two will have to be inside, but originally the boat couldn't sleep (or feed) six, now it can but it's not ideal for six.

 

I do see your point, but I decided that a well deck had more disadvantages than advantages for me -- and if you think otherwise, of course you can have one.

 

I did think of all this when planning the boat... 😉

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

49 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

boat

 

 

 

 

I'm Very Shocked about the steerer standing beside the tiller. 

Might this be an unintended consequence of having other people in the hatches? 

[Jon57]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

Not surprised you had problems getting the stern in then. What you need is a boat where you can easily get on and off at the bows... 😉

 

(perpetual reminder : different people have different requirements... 🙂

I have. It's fit for purpose. 

18 minutes ago, IanD said:

Last time you brought up the finger grip handrail -- last year IIRC -- I asked Ricky about it, as I said earlier. His advice was not to do it.

 

Similarly with the spring line shackles that you're so worried about -- they've proved vary useful, and not a trip hazard.

 

Normal complement is four, for who there's plenty of space in the semi-trad area. Or you can sit inside at the dinette with both sets of side doors open. With six two will have to be inside, but originally the boat couldn't sleep (or feed) six, now it can but it's not ideal for six.

 

I do see your point, but I decided that a well deck had more disadvantages than advantages for me -- and if you think otherwise, of course you can have one.

 

I did think of all this when planning the boat... 😉

Mine can sleep 6. Admittedly 2 on the deck🤣 could rig a bit of a canvas cover up to protect them from the elements. Somthing like a tent.🎪😁👍

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

Last time you brought up the finger grip handrail -- last year IIRC -- I asked Ricky about it, as I said earlier. His advice was not to do it.

 

Similarly with the spring line shackles that you're so worried about -- they've proved vary useful, and not a trip hazard.

 

Normal complement is four, for who there's plenty of space in the semi-trad area. Or you can sit inside at the dinette with both sets of side doors open. With six two will have to be inside, but originally the boat couldn't sleep (or feed) six, now it can but it's not ideal for six.

 

I do see your point, but I decided that a well deck had more disadvantages than advantages for me -- and if you think otherwise, of course you can have one.

 

I did think of all this when planning the boat... 😉

  As we keep debating your boat suits your boating needs, maybe I look at what suits people more generally. Anyway hopefully you’ll get out and use it, knowing with the delays you couldn’t this year. Have a good night.

[Jon57]

14 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

I have. It's fit for purpose. 

Mine can sleep 6. Admittedly 2 on the deck🤣 could rig a bit of a canvas cover up to protect them from the elements. Somthing like a tent.🎪😁👍

Once had 8 on the deck. 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

In what circumstances do folk need to access the bow other than when the boat is alongside?

 

Use the pole at the bows when the bow thruster battery is flat 

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

 

 

Not just quite a bit of welding, it also makes painting and fitting/sealing the solar panels properly more difficult, and for little benefit... 😉

 

(I seem to remember mentioning this to Ricky last year when the same subject came up while the hull was being built, and IIRC that was his reply)

No. The 3/8 bar is welded along inside of the cant/box handrail level with the flat top surface. The welding needs tidying for aesthetics.  It doesn't interfere with painting or solar panels at all. It just makes the handrail easier to grip. 

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

13 hours ago, magnetman said:

No. The 3/8 bar is welded along inside of the cant/box handrail level with the flat top surface. The welding needs tidying for aesthetics.  It doesn't interfere with painting or solar panels at all. It just makes the handrail easier to grip. 

 

 

 I couldn’t work that one out either,  or the shell builder just welds on a wider top bar? Maybe the salesman has never been more than a mile test drive down the canal, never mind done a lock, so doesn’t know about grip? 

  How can half an inch overhang on the top handrail effect the positioning of solar panels?

Edited December 15, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Bromleyxphil]

Well guys I didn’t intend to light the blue touchpaper!  I have however gained lots of useful information as always from posing my question on here.  I think boats are always compromise in some aspect and the thing is to gain as much experience and information as possible and make your own decision.  Thanks again and expect more questions.  Phil

[Stroudwater1]

3 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Well guys I didn’t intend to light the blue touchpaper!  I have however gained lots of useful information as always from posing my question on here.  I think boats are always compromise in some aspect and the thing is to gain as much experience and information as possible and make your own decision.  Thanks again and expect more questions.  Phil

We all look foreward to more mundane and straightforward questions like what anchor to get, what’s the best toilet set up or should I get a survey then 👍? 

[magnetman]

Do the lavatory one !

I can advertise my "Out of shite out of mind" GPS guided instant freeze compressed air driven mortar used food disposal system. 

 

 

Self parking !

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

ETA - I was thinking Fulbourne rather than Belfast. Two similar craft in terms of origin but showing a vast difference in how easily they can be worked in certain circumstances. @David Mack’s suggested method is fine for Belfast but he might have adopted my suggested method if single handing Fulbourne.

Yup. The only way to get to the bows on Fulbourne is to walk along the top plank, which I have done many times. And when I was younger, a couple of times carrying a 56lb weight in each hand when we needed to move ballast forward to get unstuck, not that I'd try that particular trick now!

6 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

One of the nicer more practical handrails I’ve seen IMO. Square handrail with a Northwich style handrail on top. Not to everyones taste but safe to grab.

Why does it have fake rivets on what would have been a wooden cant?

[Captain Pegg]

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Why does it have fake rivets on what would have been a wooden cant?

Because one person’s nice is another person’s hideous I would guess.

 

4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Use the pole at the bows when the bow thruster battery is flat 

To be fair getting stuck and needing the shaft is one time I use the gunwales. But we now have people talking about running down the gunwales. 🤷‍♀️

As for the handrails though I’ve never had any problem with a ‘box’ section. A bit difficult for mine to be any different as they are wooden.