C&RT do spend some money on the navigation infrastructure

[Stroudwater1]

12 hours ago, DShK said:

Afaik this technique was commonly employed in the 70s. As was cilling your boat to get at the prop.

Interesting- I’ve not heard of that. Many of the bollards lock side were wooden (Similar to Peter Scott’s Fradley one) and not in the best of shape. There were some concrete bollards we see around still but cast iron type as far as I can remember were not usually the norm. There were ones top and bottom of the new GU locks though they weren’t usually in the middle. To get down there were few if any safety ladders incorporated into lock walls either, so  to check wouldn’t have been easy. 

Cilling or short pound draining to check the underside/prop  was fairly common but tying against lock bollards wasn’t wise. 

 

This from a very young memory but I often (was) sat on bollards at locks out of harms way so remember them well 

[Tonka]

5 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Interesting- I’ve not heard of that. Many of the bollards lock side were wooden (Similar to Peter Scott’s Fradley one) and not in the best of shape. There were some concrete bollards we see around still but cast iron type as far as I can remember were not usually the norm. There were ones top and bottom of the new GU locks though they weren’t usually in the middle. To get down there were few if any safety ladders incorporated into lock walls either, so  to check wouldn’t have been easy. 

Cilling or short pound draining to check the underside/prop  was fairly common but tying against lock bollards wasn’t wise. 

 

This from a very young memory but I often (was) sat on bollards at locks out of harms way so remember them well 

Saw a guy once put chains across a wide lock on the GU from bollard to bollard. Then put boat over chains. Then drained lock. Was then seen to be blacking boat from a dinghy

[peterboat]

17 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Glad they’re putting on lots of varnish to keep them waterproof and to offer them some protection from narrowboats ramming them👍

I was just going to say the same! Never seen varnished gates before?

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Saw a guy once put chains across a wide lock on the GU from bollard to bollard. Then put boat over chains. Then drained lock. Was then seen to be blacking boat from a dinghy

Ingenious to say the least

15 hours ago, magnetman said:

Also steel gates can cause damage to the lock structure because metal does not absorb shock. When gates are slammed there is nowhere for the energy to go. 

 

Wood is more forgiving.

 

 

 

 

Rubber seals on the gate edge wood absorb the shock

[Momac]

Fair enough if locks are considered to be of such interest that they are listed then  traditional means of construction appropriate to the original date of construction should be adopted. 

[Naughty Cal]

18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There was a lot of work done on that lock a few years ago (height of the season in August 2020) when some bright spark decided to tie their boat up tight onto the bollards and then empty the lock, planning to inspect the boats bottom - apparently they were a little surprised when the boat tried to follow the water down as the bollards pulled out and the walls started to collapse.

Lots of damage and lots of £s to repair.

 

It was logged as "Boater damage".

 

We went through the lock shortly after it was reopened after these works and it was a nightmare. Bollards still missing, gate paddle gear not working and leaking faster than the one remaining paddle could empty the lock.

 

Hopefully they do a better job this time.

[peterboat]

9 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Fair enough if locks are considered to be of such interest that they are listed then  traditional means of construction appropriate to the original date of construction should be adopted. 

When our waterways were upgraded in the 80s the gates are all steel construction, still in good condition and working well. Honestly I can think of no reason to keep wooden gates, these are working waterways and should kept modern and low maintenance. We can't afford to waste money on heritage when they are milking boaters dry, a lot can't afford the licence rises, so to waste it on wooden gates and repairs are a nonsense 

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Saw a guy once put chains across a wide lock on the GU from bollard to bollard. Then put boat over chains. Then drained lock. Was then seen to be blacking boat from a dinghy

 

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Ingenious to say the least

Foolhardy I would say!

If you drop the stern on the cill the boat is at least supported on something substantial, but trusting your life to the adequacy of a couple of chains and a few bollards of unknown strength and foundations seems more like a death wish.

[Pluto]

5 hours ago, peterboat said:

When our waterways were upgraded in the 80s the gates are all steel construction, still in good condition and working well. Honestly I can think of no reason to keep wooden gates, these are working waterways and should kept modern and low maintenance. We can't afford to waste money on heritage when they are milking boaters dry, a lot can't afford the licence rises, so to waste it on wooden gates and repairs are a nonsense 

Wooden gates are generally more suitable for 18th century canal locks as they tend to distort to accommodate any misalignment of the quoins over the years. Steel gates do not distort and thus can cause pressure points on the seal. The current problems with sills on the Wigan flight may well be the result of using steel gates since the 1960s in an area affected by subsidence.

[DShK]

20 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But the infrastructure has had 50 years of minimum maintenance since then.

Yes, it is a well known fact the canals were well maintained in the 70s 😄

20 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But the infrastructure has had 50 years of minimum maintenance since then.

Yes, it is a well known fact the canals were well maintained in the 70s 😄

9 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Interesting- I’ve not heard of that. Many of the bollards lock side were wooden (Similar to Peter Scott’s Fradley one) and not in the best of shape. There were some concrete bollards we see around still but cast iron type as far as I can remember were not usually the norm. There were ones top and bottom of the new GU locks though they weren’t usually in the middle. To get down there were few if any safety ladders incorporated into lock walls either, so  to check wouldn’t have been easy. 

Cilling or short pound draining to check the underside/prop  was fairly common but tying against lock bollards wasn’t wise. 

 

This from a very young memory but I often (was) sat on bollards at locks out of harms way so remember them well 

I've only heard second hand stories, it may well be an exaggeration 

[peterboat]

8 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

Foolhardy I would say!

If you drop the stern on the cill the boat is at least supported on something substantial, but trusting your life to the adequacy of a couple of chains and a few bollards of unknown strength and foundations seems more like a death wish.

I ain't saying it's not stupid, just ingenious 

3 hours ago, Pluto said:

Wooden gates are generally more suitable for 18th century canal locks as they tend to distort to accommodate any misalignment of the quoins over the years. Steel gates do not distort and thus can cause pressure points on the seal. The current problems with sills on the Wigan flight may well be the result of using steel gates since the 1960s in an area affected by subsidence.

New concrete locks perfik for the job, remember they are very large and not suited for wooden gates, maybe a complete go through of all locks to this size to future proof the canals for real freight moving boats and moving water around would be best

[Momac]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

I ain't saying it's not stupid, just ingenious 

I don't think doing something stupid can be described as  ingenious .

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I don't think doing something stupid can be described as  ingenious .

Of course it can, you have never been to war, many stupid things are done but we survived to tell the tale 

[manxmike]

They should build the lock gates out of pitch pine. That was used widely for the rubbing strakes in harbours - it takes a very long time (over a couple of centuries) for the wood to start degrading. It was also used extensively for stage floors in theaters - when you screw into it then remove the screw it "heals" the hole.

A lot of harbours still use pitch pine, minimal maintenance and capable of withstanding collisions by very large vessels.

[dmr]

I suspect good oak is superior to pitch pine otherwise the wise canal builders of olde would have used pitch pine.

Greenheart is probably the way to go but there is not a sustainable source.

[PaulJ]

3 hours ago, dmr said:

I suspect good oak is superior to pitch pine otherwise the wise canal builders of olde would have used pitch pine.

Greenheart is probably the way to go but there is not a sustainable source.

It was quite common on wooden cabin cruisers.

Can remember changing a particularly challenging plank once  that had about a 70 degree twist  to it as it came to the bow. That was pitch pine on oak frames and about as bendy as 1 inch thick planks gets so guess thats why they used it 🙂

[Pluto]

9 hours ago, PaulJ said:

It was quite common on wooden cabin cruisers.

Can remember changing a particularly challenging plank once  that had about a 70 degree twist  to it as it came to the bow. That was pitch pine on oak frames and about as bendy as 1 inch thick planks gets so guess thats why they used it 🙂

L&LC boat planking was made from a variety of woods, as seen in the 1898 specification. The bow and stern planking was 2 inch oak, with some planks twisting almost 90 degrees over around eight feet, as these boats had to carry maximum tonnage and fit into a lock, and have a shape which could be steered easily on a comparatively shallow canal. Wooden wide canal boats were some of the finest, if not the finest, examples of boat building in this country.

[David Mack]

Can modern boatbuilders/restorers get oak "grown to shape"?

And is Quebec Oak what we would now term as American White or Red Oak?

[Jerra]

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Can modern boatbuilders/restorers get oak "grown to shape"?

And is Quebec Oak what we would now term as American White or Red Oak?

As far as I know Quebec Oak is Quercus alba, as the scientific name suggests White Oak.   I may be misinformed.