Hexagon Boat with Nana Engine and Hydraulic Drive … any good

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Didne said:

Ah … yes the cats out of the bag it is the one linked above by Francis … the low well deck is one of the features I particularly like as it means its easy access from within the boat for my 91 year old mum and also that the bow seat lockers are at normal seat height which is also a lot easier for her … As a newbie I must admit I hadn’t paid the slightest bit of attention to where the water line is or where the rain water goes so thank you for bringing that to my attention !

 

Edit …I see now that on the brokers website there’s an extra photo showing the well deck … I can’t see any drainage holes … but there is a little cut-out in the middle of the floor mat …

 

 

There was mention of taking it for a test drive if we go for a second viewing
 

what sort of price do you think might be more reasonable for that boat ? … it is over budget and doesn’t have any solar panels or covers for front or stern, which I’d like to have in future … 

 

Cheers

Didne

xxx

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think the low well deck will make it easy for your 91 year old mum stepping from the bank over the gunwale or balancing on it to step down, just the opposite. Also looking at the electrical panel if this is also one of the polish built boats where everything is controlled by relays. The engine has a Peachman sticker on it 

[Didne]

5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

…. Also looking at the electrical panel if this is also one of the polish built boats where everything is controlled by relays…

 Errr … is that good or bad ?
 

thinking on, the hole in the floor matting of the well deck may be nothing to do with where the rain water goes … I forgot, but there’s actually one of those recessed fittings in the floor there so you can mount one of those tables out there, and I’m pretty sure that is what the hole is for …

 

So … am I understand this right … if the well deck does turn out to be below the water line that must mean that  the rainwater all goes down into the bilges ? … so the bilge pumps have to pump it all out ? … so what’s to stop the bilge pumps from failing ? … particularly if no one is on board for a while (i’m not going to be living aboard straight away) … and if the bilge pumps do fail isn’t she going to sink ? …. 
 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Didne

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Didne said:

and if the bilge pumps do fail isn’t she going to sink ?

 

Not only when the pump fails, but if the pump flattens the battery (regular pumping) it stops pumping.

 

Not only will the water from the bow run back into the bilges, any water dripping / leaking in around the prop shaft will also fill the bilges, as will any rain water that manages to leak around the rear deck boards.

 

Many years ago I bought a 'sunk-recovered' boat that had sunk because leaves had blocked the drains and the rain had just seeped into the bilges until the weight of water pulled the back end down below the external water level and the boat filled up.

 

It will not happen in 'days' but if you leave it unattended for 'weeks' you could have problems.

[Machpoint005]

A cratch canopy keeps a forward well deck dry.

 

Provided that it doesn't leak, of course.

 

 

[Didne]

Omg I’m so pleased I found this forum and started asking questions … and thank you folks for answering the ones I didn’t even ask … I’m finding out things I didn’t even know I didn’t know … so pleased I didn’t just go ahead and buy the first boat(s) I likes the look of without running it past you guys first …

 

a submarine was not what I had in mind …

 

Incidentally how risky is it buying a sunk-recovered boat ? … do you have to replace absolutely everything, engine included ? … xxx

[adam1uk]

I reckon this is the former Ownerships boat, Kingsley, as detailed a few years ago here:

 

http://www.boatstoshare.co.uk/kingsley/index.htm

 

Obviously a few things have changed since then, including the colour scheme, but I'd bet it's the same boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Didne said:

Omg I’m so pleased I found this forum and started asking questions … and thank you folks for answering the ones I didn’t even ask … I’m finding out things I didn’t even know I didn’t know … so pleased I didn’t just go ahead and buy the first boat(s) I likes the look of without running it past you guys first …

 

a submarine was not what I had in mind …

 

Incidentally how risky is it buying a sunk-recovered boat ? … do you have to replace absolutely everything, engine included ? … xxx

It depends ...................

 

The one I bought was held up at the bow so 90% of the actual cabin was dry, the water was fairly shallow so it sunk to about '1/2 way up the engine' which meant that the starter motor and alternator had rusted up and needed replacing, the engine was bought back into service gently and carefully, some soft furnishings needed replacing.

 

It was an almost new boat - the cooker, pots and pans, cutlery etc etc etc was all still 'cling film' wrapped and unused.

 

If the boat is fully submerged then its a very different kettle of fish and not something to be undertaken lightly - its basically a total rip out of all of the interior and a full refit. You'll never get rid of the 'mud' and 'damp' smells unless you do.

 

Not something I'd advise a newbie boater to consider.

[Didne]

15 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

I reckon this is the former Ownerships boat, Kingsley, as detailed a few years ago here:

 

http://www.boatstoshare.co.uk/kingsley/index.htm

 

Obviously a few things have changed since then, including the colour scheme, but I'd bet it's the same boat.

omg impressive detective work ! … that’s defo the same boat ! … even still the same mattress (hmmm … must change that !) … and the same comfy chairs ! … they’ve replaced the curtains and the dinette cushions tho ! … And if it needed confirming, the biggest giveaway is those two oval skylights … never seen that feature in a boat before …

 

And how mad is that … as a shared ownership boat it was moored at Overwater Marina near Audlem in Cheshire, and that was exactly where I was driving back from after an overnight in the microcamper having gone there to view a couple of other boats I thought I might be interested in … only called in to look at Kingsley cos it was on my way back home !!!
 

 

 

 

 

[alias]

7 hours ago, Didne said:

the ‘spare’ one will probably just end up being a cupboard … xxx

 

Looks like there is already a rail fitted so that you can use it as a wardrobe.

[jonathanA]

I think you just need to investigate rhe front welldeck situation, so you understand it. Seems to me that if it's not sunk when in shared ownership and since it's not in imminent danger....  looks nice to my eye but price looks optimistic given the hydraulic drive, 8000 hours on the engine and gas central heating which might be a problem costwise if your living aboard.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Didne said:

Omg I’m so pleased I found this forum and started asking questions … and thank you folks for answering the ones I didn’t even ask … I’m finding out things I didn’t even know I didn’t know … so pleased I didn’t just go ahead and buy the first boat(s) I likes the look of without running it past you guys first …

 

a submarine was not what I had in mind …

 

Incidentally how risky is it buying a sunk-recovered boat ? … do you have to replace absolutely everything, engine included ? … xxx

 

Thank you for taking onboard answer to the questions you asked and the ones you did not ask. These days, it is far from uncommon for new posters to become unpleasant and go off in a huff when the answers they get are at odds with what they think. Given time I am sure you will become a valuable member of the forum, and never hesitate to ask questions even if you fear they are silly. No question to which you don't know the answer is silly.

 

On another point. I can't see the flue for the boiler in any of the photos, but if it is a tall thin thing, almost the full cabin height, then be aware that i is an Alde 29xx (probably 2928) and as such is obsolescent, so parts and repairs may not be easy to access. This does not apply to the Alde 330xx series that is more like a rectangular box. Other makes available.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[alias]

1 hour ago, Didne said:

 Errr … is that good or bad ?
 

thinking on, the hole in the floor matting of the well deck may be nothing to do with where the rain water goes … I forgot, but there’s actually one of those recessed fittings in the floor there so you can mount one of those tables out there, and I’m pretty sure that is what the hole is for …

 

So … am I understand this right … if the well deck does turn out to be below the water line that must mean that  the rainwater all goes down into the bilges ? … so the bilge pumps have to pump it all out ? … so what’s to stop the bilge pumps from failing ? … particularly if no one is on board for a while (i’m not going to be living aboard straight away) … and if the bilge pumps do fail isn’t she going to sink ? …. 

 

We had a share in a 2001 UK build Ownerships boat, and at that time the low front deck to allow the bi-fold pair of doors was a bit of a feature to allow four seated round a table in the well deck. On ours there were drain holes in the corners of the well deck with gauze covers on them that tended to allow puddling in heavy rain if there was any leaf fall. It wasn't a through bilge (the cabin bilge was separate) so I assumed there were pipes to carry the water to the engine bilge. I get the feeling that the design compromises assumed that the boat was likely to be occupied and on the move for almost all the time that it wasn't tied up somewhere for maintenance with someone keeping an eye on it.

 

As to water tank capacity, our current boat's is 150 gallons (about 680 litres). We find that that would last two of us 4-5 days. 

[Didne]

Gas central heating ?… oooh ta … I hadn’t noticed that … Gas for hot water too …why on Earth isn’t it using a calorifier ??? …  I thought all boat central heating was always diesel powered … and that the hot water came for free as a byproduct of cooling the engine …  I thought gas was just for cooking … take it it gobbles up gas bottles then ? … a tad inconvenient … 
 

How many engine hours per year is regarded as okay when buying a narrowboat ?  I make 8000 hrs over 14 years to average about 11hrs/week … is that way above average ? 
there’s another boat on the same marina due still in shared ownership … same boat builder same fitout same hydraulic engine … identical except shorter 57’ and older 2002 … still going strong with 15000 hours on the engine … should I be encouraged by that ?

 

still … if we’re back to messing around with the gas system I think this one might be off the list 

 

 

two steps forward one step back …

 

Thank You 

xxx
 

 

[alias]

12 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

gas central heating which might be a problem costwise if your living aboard.

 

Well there's a stove too, but within a fairly tight enclosure that will reduce heat transfer so limit its utility. Worth noting that the older Alde boilers are no longer in production, so spares might become an issue. Newer versions are available, but are a different shape so won't fit the old location, and may require a change away from copper on the hot water pipes and calorifier to avoid electrolytic corrosion.

[Didne]

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Thank you for taking onboard answer to the questions you asked and the ones you did not ask. These days, it is far from uncommon for new posters to become unpleasant and go off in a huff when the answers they get are at odds with what they think. Given time I am sure you will become a valuable member of the forum, and never hesitate to ask questions even if you fear they are silly. No question to which you don't know the answer is silly.

 

On another point. I can't see the flue for the boiler in any of the photos, but if it is a tall thin thing, almost the full cabin height, then be aware that i is an Alde 29xx (probably 2928) and as such is obsolescent, so parts and repairs may not be easy to access. This does not apply to the Alde 330xx series that is more like a rectangular box. Other makes available.

Thank You 

xxx

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Didne said:

Gas central heating ?… oooh ta … I hadn’t noticed that … Gas for hot water too …why on Earth isn’t it using a calorifier ??? …  I thought all boat central heating was always diesel powered … and that the hot water came for free as a byproduct of cooling the engine …  I thought gas was just for cooking … take it it gobbles up gas bottles then ? … a tad inconvenient … 

 

A friend of ours had an Alde (NOT Aldi) central heating and they got thru over £100 per month in gas,(when it was really cold) and that was when gas was about £25 a cylinder, it is now £50-£60 per cylinder.

 

They ripped the Alde out and replaced it with a solid fuel stove and backboiler feeding the central heating

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Didne said:

Gas central heating ?… oooh ta … I hadn’t noticed that … Gas for hot water too …why on Earth isn’t it using a calorifier ??? …  I thought all boat central heating was always diesel powered … 
 

How many engine hours per year is regarded as okay when buying a narrowboat ?  I make 8000 hrs over 14 years to average about 11hrs/week … is that way above average ?  

The water is probably heated by both the engine and the gas boiler with a second coil in the calorifier.

 

I would say the engine hours are very low for shared ownership, they normally move all day every day for throughout the year.

[jonathanA]

11 minutes ago, Didne said:

Gas central heating ?… oooh ta … I hadn’t noticed that … Gas for hot water too …why on Earth isn’t it using a calorifier ??? …  I thought all boat central heating was always diesel powered … and that the hot water came for free as a byproduct of cooling the engine …  I thought gas was just for cooking … take it it gobbles up gas bottles then ? … a tad inconvenient … 

Probably (almost certainly) as well as the engine. So if cruising 'free' hot water courtesy of the engine and maybe heating to the rads as well. But the alde can be used to heat boat and/or hotwater. 

Whether gas is viable for you is going to depend on your intended use  if its leisure weekend type use id say it's fine. Liveaboard use in a marina or similar with mains electricity available is probably fine too. Continuous cruising relying on gas heating might need careful thinking about.  

 

Given the well maintained look of the boat 8000 hours on a well maintained engine is perhaps not a major concern.

[alias]

3 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

if its leisure weekend type use id say it's fine.

 

Our Alde 2928 (I think) suffered problems with the flame pattern that the then UK spares supplier advised were due to corrosion on a heat exchanger falling down the flue that were unlikely to be resolved cost effectively for occasional leisure users.

10 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Given the well maintained look of the boat 8000 hours on a well maintained engine is perhaps not a major concern.

Though that might mean some years of very intensive use and associated (low cost per owner because shared) maintenance followed by a period of neglect. Worth finding out when the boat came out of shared ownership.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Didne said:

So … am I understand this right … if the well deck does turn out to be below the water line that must mean that  the rainwater all goes down into the bilges ? … so the bilge pumps have to pump it all out ? … so what’s to stop the bilge pumps from failing ? … particularly if no one is on board for a while (i’m not going to be living aboard straight away) … and if the bilge pumps do fail isn’t she going to sink ? …. 

Belfast has a front well deck that drains to the bilge. But the cabin front bulkhead is watertight to the baseplate and there is a separate bilge pump fitted under the well deck. This is manually operated, so no risk of flattening the battery etc. Water building up down there has never been a problem. We can go weeks without pumping it out, and I have never felt the need for an automatic bilge pump.

 

Other solutions you may find are that the cabin front and back bulkheads have drainage openings at the bottom, so water from the well deck flows under the cabin floor to the stern bilge. Other boats have pipes under the cabin to carry the water back. The first option results in water flowing through the cabin bilge which will rust the baseplate. In most boats there is little or no access to the cabin bilge so you can't derust and paint it. The second option is better for the bilges, but what happens if the pipes block or corrode through (if steel)?

[MrsM]

The first boat didn't have enough gas (for some) and the second might use too much! Sounds like you need to find your goldilocks boat that is just right. My old boat also had a 150 gallon tank and that would last 2 of us between 2 and 3 weeks, but then I never used the onboard washing machine. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by MrsM

[Didne]

Yes Goldilocks … anyone know of a boat for sale named Goldilocks …  

 

xxx

[Alan de Enfield]

32 minutes ago, Didne said:

Yes Goldilocks … anyone know of a boat for sale named Goldilocks …  

 

xxx

 

"Bear" with me ......................

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, adam1uk said:

I reckon this is the former Ownerships boat, Kingsley, as detailed a few years ago here:

 

http://www.boatstoshare.co.uk/kingsley/index.htm

 

Obviously a few things have changed since then, including the colour scheme, but I'd bet it's the same boat.

 

It could well be. I looked at one of the first Polish Ownerships boats and the interior was very similar to the one advertised.

 

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

The water is probably heated by both the engine and the gas boiler with a second coil in the calorifier.

 

I would say the engine hours are very low for shared ownership, they normally move all day every day for throughout the year.

 

Indeed, both of the boats I had shares in averaged 1,100 hours per year.

 

I suspect this one has been re-engined. Shareboats typically need new engines between 8,000 and 15,000 hours.

[Bee]

Water tanks, Our tank is about 200litres, not much by modern standards but we manage to make it do a week or so, if things get critical there is always bottled water. On a small boat it is difficult to fit a bigger tank, the UK canal system is well served with water points and running out of water is unlikely unless you are iced in or trapped because of unexpected stoppages or breakdowns. It is always possible on a narrowboat to fit a roof tank - they used to be pretty much standard on Wyvern Shipping boats.