On 28/10/2023 at 10:16, Paul C said:

Wasn't the original design, hydraulic cylinders but using (the local water is a bit salty) water as the working fluid? And surprise surprise, it didn't last long. Then idea 2 was the big structure on top, with cables and counterweights. And now we're on idea 3 which is to go back to hydraulics, but with actual hydraulic fluid and independent cylinders, not needing to be counterbalanced with each other.

The original system lasted thirty  years, so was pretty successful. The problem was that the caisson entered  river water when lowered, and this caused the ram to become corroded. After electrification, the caissons used dry chambers at the lower end, reducing the corrosion from the salty river water.

The other problem with the lower caisson entering the river is the resulting flotation. That means there is less force to lift the upper caisson up the last bit, so presumably it had to be pumped. Not an issue with a dry chamber at the bottom.

For the same reason the gradient at the top of Foxton Incline Plane reduces at the top so that balanced operation could continue as the lower tank entered the water.

15 hours ago, David Mack said:

The other problem with the lower caisson entering the river is the resulting flotation. That means there is less force to lift the upper caisson up the last bit, so presumably it had to be pumped. Not an issue with a dry chamber at the bottom.

For the same reason the gradient at the top of Foxton Incline Plane reduces at the top so that balanced operation could continue as the lower tank entered the water.

As far as I could tell in the Belgian ones which use the original system, there is a combination of letting water out of the top tank (as seen in my photos) and a there is also a pump between the rams.

17 hours ago, David Mack said:

The other problem with the lower caisson entering the river is the resulting flotation. That means there is less force to lift the upper caisson up the last bit, so presumably it had to be pumped. Not an issue with a dry chamber at the bottom.

For the same reason the gradient at the top of Foxton Incline Plane reduces at the top so that balanced operation could continue as the lower tank entered the water.

A small steam powered pump was used to level the caissons on the original lift, as per drawing. The Belgian lifts used hydraulically powered pumps supplied by Cockerill & Co. The founder of the firm was a textile engineer from Haslingden, and was invited to set up an engineering industry in Belgium when the country was formed.

4 hours ago, Pluto said:

A small steam powered pump was used to level the caissons on the original lift, as per drawing. The Belgian lifts used hydraulically powered pumps supplied by Cockerill & Co. The founder of the firm was a textile engineer from Haslingden, and was invited to set up an engineering industry in Belgium when the country was formed.

That is a beautiful scene.  Apart from the pale blue.  How could you do that?  

The original lifts in Belgium were closed for a long while after an accident with the bottom lift. The caisson started to go up went the Peniche was about half way out, the boat was broken in half and the lift was eventually stripped right down and rebuilt by the Eiffel company.

We did a couple of coal runs on the weaver selling mainly to the lock keepers around 1978 and loaded the first load near Harecastle tunnel and the second load on the weaver. That load came from the forest of dean as the NCB were having a dispute with the miners and the pits were closed. I don’t remember any payment for the lift so maybe commercial traffic was ecempt.

On 27/10/2023 at 15:50, Jon57 said:

Maybe they should run like a Disney attraction ride £50 for a family of 4. Plus all the merchandise. T shirts. Baseball caps. Fridge magnets etc.

Imagine if they still had the original chutes, what you could make for the cost of a hundred cocoanut mats and a small kiosk...

On 27/10/2023 at 15:57, Arthur Marshall said:

I got told by one of the blokes working it that it cost about 10p for each trip. Possibly he hadn't included maintenence costs...

 

The last I heard it cost about £100 each time the lift operates.

 

Like costing many things,  costing the operation of the Anderton lift is more of an art form than a science. Knowing the answer you want is a good start.

 

What do you decide to include?

Electricity?

Wages of the x people needed to operate it?

Pension  and other costs of those people?

Some proportion of Head office and Regional office costs? If so how much?

Depreciation?

Maintenance costs- for the lift, for the operating building, for the grounds.....?

Some portion of the costs of the CRT booking system?

Publicity costs?

Trip boat costs, if it is a public trip operation?

 

Lots of others to choose from too.  

 

With accountants the answer is always a piece of string 😀.

 

N

13 hours ago, BEngo said:

With accountants the answer is always a piece of string 😀.

Well I for one won't be using the Anderton Lift again if  that's how it works! 

3 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Well I for one won't be using the Anderton Lift again if  that's how it works! 

CRT and BW before them have a long history of using bits of string, normally blue

Were the strings attached?

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

Were the strings attached?

They should be on those micro switches that stop it working

On 27/10/2023 at 21:03, billh said:

We used the lift in 1977, cost of passage was £6.50, probably quite expensive then. It was operated by one bloke in the cabin above the lift, no attendants  shouting orders or office staff. We went onto the River for a couple of days and then came back up ( might have paid again ,I can't remember) .

I make that £38 in todays money.

 

On 29/10/2023 at 16:26, David Mack said:

The other problem with the lower caisson entering the river is the resulting flotation. That means there is less force to lift the upper caisson up the last bit, so presumably it had to be pumped. Not an issue with a dry chamber at the bottom.

For the same reason the gradient at the top of Foxton Incline Plane reduces at the top so that balanced operation could continue as the lower tank entered the water.

Interesting. Its these little details that are fascinating.

 

There are also little wedges, tapered infill pieces, between the gates at the river level. Which I believe are to adjust the level at which the lower caisson 'docks' at the bottom, because while the canal level is very well maintained including a huge weir just above the visitors centre, the 'river' level will fluctuate depending on flow and operation of the sluices etc.

 

On 02/11/2023 at 18:31, BEngo said:

Like costing many things,  costing the operation of the Anderton lift is more of an art form than a science. Knowing the answer you want is a good start.

Yes, certainly either way you slice it, it doesn't matter if its £5 or £35 each way, its likely to fall short of the total overall annualised costs of keeping it in service. Much of which will be fixed/sunk costs rather than relating to the number of times it is operated. At which point keeping the barrier to use low and increasing the number of boats a year to use it, greatly improves the value of keeping it open as well reducing the 'cost per passage' figure.

 

The original article suggests that 3000 boats a year use the lift, an average of more then 8 boats a day over the whole year, maybe double that over summer if you take into account the colder months being much quieter. This seems a surprisingly high figure to me.

 

 

On 27/10/2023 at 13:57, Heartland said:

Keep Anderton Boat Lift Alive

 

The unique 150-year-old structure, the world’s first major commercial boat lift, needs an upgrade to enable the ageing machinery to continue transporting around 3,000 boats a year, 50 feet between the Trent & Mersey Canal and the Weaver Navigation below.

 

The first milestone was achieved last December [Dec2022] , when we were awarded a £574,000 grant from The National Lottery Heritage Fund to support the development phase of this essential project.

 

Our project manager, Fran Littlewood, said:

“By January 2024, we are looking to appoint the main contractor, who will design and plan the works programme over the summer. The Trust will be seeking further grant funding and support from local businesses and philanthropists, which will be vital in enabling us to deliver the project.

“If all goes well, the plan will be to close the lift in early summer 2025 and reopen it 12 - 18 months later. This means that boaters and visitors can expect to enjoy a full season of boating in 2024 and potentially a short window around the following Easter, before it is wrapped in a protective encapsulation skin to give it a special 150th anniversary upgrade.”

Sadly this announcement has not aged well.

 

The lift has been shut all year, following a failure of the upper west gate lift cable in early Jan, and the major renovation is postponed until further notice as the funding not longer cover the increasing costs.

Anderton may have been breakthrough engineering to move boats from one level to the next, but this is what China are doing today (first 7 minutes) Riding China’s scary high ship elevator to cross a mountain | Watch

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Anderton may have been breakthrough engineering to move boats from one level to the next, but this is what China are doing today (first 7 minutes) Riding China’s scary high ship elevator to cross a mountain | Watch

 

Phenomenal !!

 

The Chinese certainly take a longer term view of investments than 'we' do (when the Politicians are looking only at will give a quick return)

 

You have to have respect for their technologies. 

Shame other aspects of the country are less wholesome.

I have just found a guide to the Anderton lift in book form. Should I sent it to CRT so as they know how to repair the lift

13 hours ago, Tonka said:

I have just found a guide to the Anderton lift in book form. Should I sent it to CRT so as they know how to repair the lift

You will find two here: https://www.canalhistory.co.uk/Canals-in-General/