Anglia Water trying to Stop Navigation on the Cam

[Naughty Cal]

19 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I don't question any of that, but I don't see how this is a sudden problem. There have been problems around Newbury for years. It is convenient to try to blame the weather for the problems, but that is to simply excuse the lack of maintenance and investment.

 

Also be worth noting that in times of high river flows, Thames water has low levels in its Farmoor reservoir because the Thames was so poluted by their discharges they could not fill it. Wait until summer, and there is a fair chance we will suddenly have water shortages,

All the maintenance and investment you could throw at the system can't stop the wet weather we have had this winter and the resulting high groundwater levels.

[Tony Brooks]

59 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

All the maintenance and investment you could throw at the system can't stop the wet weather we have had this winter and the resulting high groundwater levels.

 

Possibly not, but if adequate repair and investment had been carried out since privatisation the situation would be very much better if not perfect now. It almost seems as if you have swallowed the water company and government excuses, without adequate thought.

 

The situation where a water company can not refill its reservoir because they have polluted the river so badly really says it all. They do repair water mains because everyone can see it when they don't - but seem to ignore losses that do not appear on the surface. This tells me that they must know the sewerage pipes are likely to be just as badly affected, but it seems they are happy to ignore it.

 

It is vital that we do not swallow the companies' and government's line that it is all the fault of the weather.

[Tacet]

22 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Neither do we, and as an added, added, bonus if you get a water leak (on your supply) the water company will credit you for the lost water as it is not being fed into the drainage system and overloading the water treatment plant.

 

I didn't believe it when I was told, but it turns out to be true.

Do you mean the water supply company or the waste treatment company? 

 

I can't see the water (supply) company crediting a consumer for metered water because the consumer hasn't fixed a leak.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

Do you mean the water supply company or the waste treatment company? 

 

I can't see the water (supply) company crediting a consumer for metered water because the consumer hasn't fixed a leak.

 

You can claim for the difference between your 'normal usage' and the amount lost (as noted by the meter reading) 

You claim from your supply company.

 

I've had a leak, can I have a refun | Help and Support | Anglian Water

 

Full details and a claim form here :

 

How to claim for a leak allowance | United Utilities

 

What happens once I have completed the form

We will work out the amount of water that was lost during the time you had a leak:

• We will deduct your normal usage from the amount of water recorded during the period of the leak
• We will then apply the difference between the two figures as an allowance on your account – this will be offset against any balance on your account
• We can often make an adjustment on the sewerage part of the bill too. That’s because sewerage charges are based on your water usage.

Please note: Any refund will be added to your next bill.

If you are registered for our My Account service or mobile app you will be able to see when the allowance has been added to your account.

*You are eligible for one internal leak and one external leak at your current property. If another leak occurs at this property, you may be eligible for a further allowance against sewerage charges if the water running to waste does not enter the sewer network.

Edited January 30 by Alan de Enfield

[Tacet]

15 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You can claim for the difference between your 'normal usage' and the amount lost (as noted by the meter reading) 

You claim from your supply company.

 

I've had a leak, can I have a refun | Help and Support | Anglian Water

 

Full details and a claim form here :

 

How to claim for a leak allowance | United Utilities

 

What happens once I have completed the form

We will work out the amount of water that was lost during the time you had a leak:

• We will deduct your normal usage from the amount of water recorded during the period of the leak
• We will then apply the difference between the two figures as an allowance on your account – this will be offset against any balance on your account
• We can often make an adjustment on the sewerage part of the bill too. That’s because sewerage charges are based on your water usage.

Please note: Any refund will be added to your next bill.

If you are registered for our My Account service or mobile app you will be able to see when the allowance has been added to your account.

*You are eligible for one internal leak and one external leak at your current property. If another leak occurs at this property, you may be eligible for a further allowance against sewerage charges if the water running to waste does not enter the sewer network.

Fair enough - and very reasonable too.

 

The bit about being eligible for one internal and external leak is quite curious; one wonders how many people request the leak to which they are entitled.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Tacet said:

The bit about being eligible for one internal and external leak is quite curious; one wonders how many people request the leak to which they are entitled.

 

I had never claimed because I never knew it was an option, (I was always told that 'your side of the meter is your responsibility'), until, recently when we had a leak that we repaired within a few hours that resulted in £1400 of 'extra' usage.

Sometimes it good to have friends "in the know".

[matty40s]

On 30/01/2024 at 13:36, Naughty Cal said:

All the maintenance and investment you could throw at the system can't stop the wet weather we have had this winter and the resulting high groundwater levels.

They were dumping sewage all last Summer, many seaside resorts had closed or red flagged beaches for weeks. 

This is happening as there are little or no repercussions for dumping it, the EA and OFWAT seem to be useless or in the trough, and the only priority for the water companies is dividends and bonuses.

[Tony Brooks]

Following on. Southern Water announced that their plans to pump filters foul water into the river Test were a "mistake" so were not going to o it - despite installing the pumps etc.  Me thinks the reputational damage from the public outcry was considered more of a danger to the company than continuing to pay for tanker removal. It looks like another example of protect the profits and stuff the environment.

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Following on. Southern Water announced that their plans to pump filters foul water into the river Test were a "mistake" so were not going to o it - despite installing the pumps etc.  Me thinks the reputational damage from the public outcry was considered more of a danger to the company than continuing to pay for tanker removal. It looks like another example of protect the profits and stuff the environment.

Me thinks the large numbers of people standing there with placards in the way and the online publicity of the salmon egg laying season being destroyed were too much of a risk even to shareholders.

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Me thinks the large numbers of people standing there with placards in the way and the online publicity of the salmon egg laying season being destroyed were too much of a risk even to shareholders.

 

Exactly, but until then SW were happy to spend money to get ready to do it, now they aren't they are going to have to spend more money on takers until the groundwater falls. I wonder if the shareholders will try to hold the management to account - rhetorical question.

[cuthound]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68270068

 

A step.in the right direction or too little too late?

 

IIRC Labour suggested this some years ago, when sewage polluting rivers first came became public knowledge and the current government poo poo'd it (pun intentional).

Edited February 12 by cuthound
Tidy up link

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68270068

 

A step.in the right direction or too little too late?

 

IIRC Labour suggested this some years ago, when sewage polluting rivers first came became public knowledge and the current government poo poo'd it (pun intentional).

 

Removing the bosses bonuses might make people feel better, but is doesn't make even a tiny dent in the £60B of debt that the private owners have loaded the companies up with while paying out £60B to shareholders instead of investing it in the system -- and now bleating that they can't afford the investment needed to fix the problems so please can the customers or government pay? 😞

[matty40s]

31 minutes ago, cuthound said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68270068

 

A step.in the right direction or too little too late?

 

IIRC Labour suggested this some years ago, when sewage polluting rivers first came became public knowledge and the current government poo poo'd it (pun intentional).

The last Environment Minister Therese Cofferdam announced exactly the same thing a year ago.

Similar to the last 4 Prime Ministers announcing 300k houses a year for the last 5 years....

Theres a massive difference between an announcement and an action.

[matty40s]

Just in case some still dont believe how corrupt the entire British privatised water companies are...

 

But obviously, it cant be true as its....

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

25 minutes ago, matty40s said:

But obviously, it cant be true as its....

 

 

They seem to have mistaken the word "planet" for the word "profit", schoolboy error  

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, matty40s said:

Just in case some still dont believe how corrupt the entire British privatised water companies are...

 

But obviously, it cant be true as its....

 

 

Feargal Sharkey does, of course, have an agenda but quoting absolute profit or dividend figures on their own goes nowhere near showing whether or not they are reasonable or a rip off. The only fact that they do demonstrate is that utilities have become very large businesses and hard hard to resist (unless you can supply your own rainwater!) But they are not too big to fail as Thames is now demonstrating. (Although the Govt does seem able to bail them out without too much detriment to the directors and it also looks as if they very keen to protect shareholders with customers and taxpayers providing the money)

[Scholar Gypsy]

Meanwhile - to get back on topic - here is a photo of the existing outfall that I took last weekend. Typically discharges about 1 cubic metre a second.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

32 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Typically discharges about 1 cubic metre a second.

 

 

A 1000 litres per second is not a small amount.

or .....

3.6 million litres per hour

86.4 million litres per day

[Scholar Gypsy]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

A 1000 litres per second is not a small amount.

or .....

3.6 million litres per hour

86.4 million litres per day

For most rivers it would be pretty small compared with the normal flow - but I agree that on the Cam water is very short in the summer, and a good proportion of the flow in the summer is from the STW.  

 

I went to an interesting presentation  last week (at a PLA open meeting) on a scheme to increase drinking water supply in London, via an abstraction point just above Teddington.  https://thames-wrmp.co.uk/tdra/ Involves tertiary treated output from the Mogden STW (not storm overflow) being added to the river at Teddington.

[matty40s]

You mean this Teddington Lock....

 

https://www.itv.com/news/london/2024-03-06/london-lock-pumped-full-of-raw-sewage-creating-environmental-hazard

[Scholar Gypsy]

Yes, that's the one. The headline gives the impression there was a tanker pumping sewage into the lock.  Rather sounds like the EA forgot to open the sluices at both ends on a regular basis, to flush it downriver.  Or it may be because the smaller lock (on the left in the photo) is closed for maintenance at the moment.

 

Someone asked at the meeting why the output from the STW could not be sent straight down the pipes to east london.  That's not allowed, apparently - would need another treatment process (after the tertiary one at Mogden that is already part of the plan) - there has to be an environmental buffer between STW outlet and water treatment inlet.  I should add that the storm water overflow from Mogden will continue as now to go into the tideway, and will not go down the new pipe to Teddington. 

[pearley]

16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

A 1000 litres per second is not a small amount.

or .....

3.6 million litres per hour

86.4 million litres per day

Current flow upstream at Offord on Great Ouse. It has been so high it was outside the range of the measuring device.

Edited March 15 by pearley

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 minute ago, pearley said:

Current flow upstream at Offord on Great Ouse. It has been so high it was outside the range of the measuring device.

That's the level, here is the flow  https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/#!Detail/13346/8754

 

[pearley]

Just now, Scholar Gypsy said:

That's the level, here is the flow  https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/#!Detail/13346/8754

 

Realised as soon as I pressed the button and altered it.

[Ken X]

8 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

For most rivers it would be pretty small compared with the normal flow - but I agree that on the Cam water is very short in the summer, and a good proportion of the flow in the summer is from the STW.  

 

I went to an interesting presentation  last week (at a PLA open meeting) on a scheme to increase drinking water supply in London, via an abstraction point just above Teddington.  https://thames-wrmp.co.uk/tdra/ Involves tertiary treated output from the Mogden STW (not storm overflow) being added to the river at Teddington.

As someone who was born in Hampton on Thames this scheme interests me.

 

We always figured we were about sixth in line for the water we drank.  Looks like a few people are going to be after us if this scheme comes to fruitition. 🙂

 

Never realised there was a pipeline to the Lee valley.