A possible solution to overcrowded waterways, and, would give C&RT additional income.

[Alan de Enfield]

Some years ago Singapore introduced a 'permission to own' certificate for cars, the cost of which has steadily increased ..................

 

Drivers in Singapore now need to pay £88,000 for the right to own a car - and that doesn't include the cost of the vehicle itself.

 

 

The city-state is the most expensive place in the world to be a motorist, with skyrocketing prices putting cars out of reach for most middle-class Singaporeans.

Back in 1990, a 10-year certificate of entitlement (COE) was launched to control the number of vehicles on the road, which is capped at about 950,000.

 

Would-be motorists need to bid for one of these certificates, which now cost four times more than they did in 2020.

The cost of buying a Toyota Camry Hybrid in Singapore - when combined with a COE, registration fees and taxes - now stands at £151,000, five times more than in the UK.

That's also twice more than the median annual household salary, which stands at £72,716.

 

Drivers in Singapore now need to pay £88,000 for permission to own a car (vehicle not included) (msn.com)

 

[Higgs]

Don't need more capitalist twaddle. There's enough around driving the soul out of everything. 

 

 

[Rambling Boater]

I think it's a shame we still live in a world where so many people think that financial wealth is the most important measure of an individuals usefulness in society.

 

Surely it should be more about what we can offer in time to eachother?

 

Don't forget that it's often those who struggle to afford accommodation who DO the important things we all need for basic survival. COVID should have made people realise that.

[Alan de Enfield]

43 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

Don't forget that it's often those who struggle to afford accommodation who DO the important things we all need for basic survival. COVID should have made people realise that.

 

There is some sense in what you say, but unless some restrictions are placed on the number of vehicles allowed they will just escalate. maybe the alternative to a 'certificate to own' we have a total ban in our cities.

 

For example - public transport is good in our major cities, London, Manchester, Birmingham etc, there could be a total ban on personal-transport within these cities.

 

Irrespective of your job, Nurse, Waiter, Cook or Company Director you don't need a personal vehicle to live or work in these cities.

 

Anyway, you have not addressed the point I was making that it could be a useful stategy for C&RT to adopt. 

Number of boats on C&RT waters limited to (?) 30,000, no new boats allowed until one has left / surrendered its licence, and then you have to buy 'a right to own' certificate before you can buy a boat. If no certificates are available you go onto a waiting list.

[David Mack]

55 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Irrespective of your job, Nurse, Waiter, Cook or Company Director you don't need a personal vehicle to live or work in these cities.

Unless you live in the outer suburbs of the city and you work shifts that start or end at times when there is little public transport running.

[jonesthenuke]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Anyway, you have not addressed the point I was making that it could be a useful stategy for C&RT to adopt. 

Number of boats on C&RT waters limited to (?) 30,000, no new boats allowed until one has left / surrendered its licence, and then you have to buy 'a right to own' certificate before you can buy a boat. If no certificates are available you go onto a waiting list.

Possibly a sensible approach in London, say within the M25?

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Irrespective of your job, Nurse, Waiter, Cook or Company Director you don't need a personal vehicle to live or work in these cities.

But a great number of people who work in those jobs aren't in cities!
Plus they often do shifts when public transport doesn't run.

[Rambling Boater]

I'm not really convinced that the navigation (2000 miles of it) is overcrowded. Obviously some inner cities are, but natural order seems to regulate it due to the limited amount of moorings.

 

Over many years of CC'ing around the country, I've not really seen more boats on the cut itself, other than maybe in some cities. In fact, I think I'm seeing less and less boats on the move outside cities. Maybe the failures in the infrastructure are putting boat owners off cruising?
 
Although new boats are being made, most of them spend the majority of their time in a marina. New marinas pop up almost on a yearly basis. So can't see a problem there.
 
The idea that the cities could be overrun by people buying boats purely  to get around the city like cars isn't that realistic either. So not sure about the analogy.
 
I think it's fair to say most inner cities do have many liveaboards who probably could not afford a flat. As many of them do important jobs in the cities, why make life difficult for them?
 

[HenryFreeman]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Anyway, you have not addressed the point I was making that it could be a useful stategy for C&RT to adopt. 

Number of boats on C&RT waters limited to (?) 30,000, no new boats allowed until one has left / surrendered its licence, and then you have to buy 'a right to own' certificate before you can buy a boat. If no certificates are available you go onto a waiting list.

 

This sounds like you're advocating boating to become a rich boy's club.

 

Thankfully, again, this kind of talk is all just "pie in the sky" rather than there being any notion of it becoming reality.

6 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

I think it's fair to say most inner cities do have many liveaboards who probably could not afford a flat. As many of them do important jobs in the cities, why make life difficult for them?

 

Because many members of this forum don't want the "dregs of society" on their waterways.

[enigmatic]

not really sure what a one-in-one-out policy would accomplish other than shutting down a few boatbuilders, and shifting boat use away from weekend use in pretty parts of the network towards residential boat use in London which seems to be the opposite direction from the one most people want.

 

I guess it'd make the business case for shutting the Pennine canals easier....

[GUMPY]

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

Unless you live in the outer suburbs of the city and you work shifts that start or end at times when there is little public transport running.

Depends where in the country you are.

Our local bus runs from before 6am to after 11pm 

 

21_21A_21C_030923.pdf

Edited October 6, 2023 by GUMPY

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, GUMPY said:

Depends where in the country you are.

Our local bus runs from before 6am to after 11pm 

 

21_21A_21C_030923.pdf 62.99 kB · 2 downloads

And how does the driver who takes out the 6am bus, or returns the 11pm bus to the depot get to and from work?

[GUMPY]

18 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And how does the driver who takes out the 6am bus, or returns the 11pm bus to the depot get to and from work?

The driver may live locally, people do live near bus garages.

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

The driver may live locally, people do live near bus garages.

But the reality of rostering staff for roles like bus driving is that everyone takes their fair share of the easy shifts and those at less sociable hours. So most if not all of the drivers will sometimes work an early or late shift, and it is very unlikely that they will all live within walking distance of the depot.

And that's without considering the cleaners, who start work when the bus returns to the depot and finish some time later.

[magnetman]

When we had the factories all those yars ago we provided housing for the workers. 

 

This was quite a long time ago though. Almost a century ago in fact. 

 

All housing estates now. 

 

 

[Peanut]

The idea of doing away with all the cars on the roads was put about in the seventies, the idea was that you could then run an efficient public transport system on the roads.  Try getting people out of their cars, or queuing in the rain, and then the drivers all joining up with the RMT. It's not going to work.

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

But the reality of rostering staff for roles like bus driving is that everyone takes their fair share of the easy shifts

I knew people in an earlier life that worked permanent nights, couldn't be dealing with daytime.

The thought of changing shifts was abhorrent to them.

[MtB]

37 minutes ago, Peanut said:

The idea of doing away with all the cars on the roads was put about in the seventies, the idea was that you could then run an efficient public transport system on the roads.  Try getting people out of their cars, or queuing in the rain, and then the drivers all joining up with the RMT. It's not going to work.

 

 

This reminds me of the old joke about us when we joined the EU, changing to driving on the right. The proposal was for all the cars to drive on the right for six months and if it worked out well, all the vans and lorries would change to driving on the right too. 

 

Ultra efficient public transport systems only address half the problem. They completely ignore freight and the need to shift stuff about on the roads. 

[ditchcrawler]

34 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I knew people in an earlier life that worked permanent nights, couldn't be dealing with daytime.

The thought of changing shifts was abhorrent to them.

My ex MiL worked permanent nights

[Slim]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

When we had the factories all those yars ago we provided housing for the workers

Fall out with the boss and you're not only unemployed, you're homeless 

[Higgs]

19 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Anyway, you have not addressed the point I was making that it could be a useful stategy for C&RT to adopt. 

Number of boats on C&RT waters limited to (?) 30,000, no new boats allowed until one has left / surrendered its licence, and then you have to buy 'a right to own' certificate before you can buy a boat. If no certificates are available you go onto a waiting list.

 

You could always try it with the offshore boating community first, then tell us how it went.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Higgs said:

You could always try it with the offshore boating community first, then tell us how it went.

 

The problem is lack of space and too many boats - not a problem for lumpy-waters.

 

Most coastal marinas are operating at near capacity and certainly, around North Wales, all have waiting lists. 

Supply and demand allows them to charge whatever they want, if the waiting list starts to decline then you've hit the 'sweet-spot' on pricing levels.

[Higgs]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The problem is lack of space and too many boats - not a problem for lumpy-waters.

 

Most coastal marinas are operating at near capacity and certainly, around North Wales, all have waiting lists. 

Supply and demand allows them to charge whatever they want, if the waiting list starts to decline then you've hit the 'sweet-spot' on pricing levels.

 

I haven't noticed any overcrowding. But if there was any, another objectionable solution would be to close boat builders down.

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Higgs

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Higgs said:

 

I haven't noticed any overcrowding. But if there was any, another objectionable solution would be to close boat builders down.

 

 

 

 

Which will make how many people unemployed ?

 

It is hardly an industry that is a large employer - most canal boat builders seem to be 'micro-companies' with the boss man and a couple of gofers.

[Slim]

In my 28 years of narrowboat ownership (including 17 retired) I can count on one hand the number of times I've been held up for any significant length of time due to overcrowding.

Now, finding an overnight mooring anywhere near a convenient spot, that's a different story. Perhaps short term moorings are the area that should be reviewed (dare I say policed)