Side Plating rippled

[Michael Siggers]

Hi

 

I'm looking at a 65 foot narrowboat, second hand, and while everything seems to be great on it, on the central section of the hull, the steel plating is bowed in sighting along the length. Its almost as if the substructure is pushing through as the bowing is regular, ie about every 600mm.

 

I need to try and get a photograph of it which will help explain, but in the meantime, thoughts would be appreciated.

 

It's a 2004 boat but not sure who built the hull. Will try to find out.

 

Mike

[Tracy D'arth]

Typical of not too conscientious shell construction, ripple between interior braces. Also many boats are made from straightened coiled steel sheet which often shows corrugations like a washboard.

[BEngo]

This is quite common.  In His Majesty's war canoes it is known as starved horse effect, (because you can see where the ribs are.)

 

N

[Michael Siggers]

Thank you @Tracy D'arth and @BEngo

 

It's annoying because the rest of it appears to be immaculate. Arranging a survey so I'll speak with the Surveyor. It's a 2004 boat refurbished in 2021.

 

Hopefully nothing to worry about.

 

Mike

 

[LEO]

Yep. it appears immaculate - as a modern flat- on water, no disrespect, but life is sad. are you going to be a 'live aboard'?, soon values will change, people will want 'aged' pine, even better aged oak, and lots more, I have been experimenting with cooking Fat fryer ( badly named, really small ,very, oven cookers, power banks, and such like), and I think whole ideas, thinking!, on boats. life for one or two people will change............the only thing which will shine through will be (and sought after) will be the stockpot on the coal fire................really why do I want a huge oven, which takes ages to 'pre heat' to cook a small meal....

[matty40s]

At least the ceiling trim matches the ripples outside.

[Michael Siggers]

1 hour ago, LEO said:

Yep. it appears immaculate - as a modern flat- on water, no disrespect, but life is sad. are you going to be a 'live aboard'?, soon values will change, people will want 'aged' pine, even better aged oak, and lots more, I have been experimenting with cooking Fat fryer ( badly named, really small ,very, oven cookers, power banks, and such like), and I think whole ideas, thinking!, on boats. life for one or two people will change............the only thing which will shine through will be (and sought after) will be the stockpot on the coal fire................really why do I want a huge oven, which takes ages to 'pre heat' to cook a small meal....

Not sure how to take that 😃

 

Yes, living aboard and working aboard as it will be my Office. I'm a Freelance Architectural Technician.

 

Mike

Here is a picture taken this afternoon.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

16 minutes ago, Michael Siggers said:

Here is a picture taken this afternoon.

 

 

Blimey - that isn't a normal situation.

 

Could this boat have been an ex Alvechurch / ABC hire boat?  The offse front door with a round window, the general bow shape, and the front button resting against a round steel plate are all characteristics that one finds in that breed of hire boat.

I've never seen one with wobbly sides like that though.

Edited October 5, 2023 by alan_fincher

[booke23]

20 minutes ago, Michael Siggers said:

Not sure how to take that 😃

 

Yes, living aboard and working aboard as it will be my Office. I'm a Freelance Architectural Technician.

 

Mike

Here is a picture taken this afternoon.

 

 

 

 

Is the other side the same? I'm assuming it's 6mm steel?

[Mike Adams]

It looks like the sort of damage you might get if it was say moored on a tideway with lots of wash making it crash against something heavy like a metal or concrete wall. Is it the same on both sides. A lot of old lighters and tugs on the Thames are like that. Probably very expensive to repair but probably would not cause a structural problem.

[Tracy D'arth]

That hull has had a good battering above the water line. Its not just stress from welding to the ribs and stringers, it been hammered. EX hire I bet.

[David Schweizer]

It would appear that the guard irons are also bowed in, which suggests that the hull has taken a severe side blow against a wall. some old working boats suffered from the same damage, but they were "working" boats which would have expected to receive some harsh treatment over the years. Personally I would give it a miss.

[Francis Herne]

That does look thoroughly bashed, mostly in the area affected by 'cross winding' when jammed into lock jaws at the wrong angle.

 

I've seen working boats with similar dents but not a modern cabin boat.

 

It's probably not a structural problem, just aesthetic, but doesn't suggest the boat's been well treated in its life to date.

 

It does look like a former ABC hire boat.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Francis Herne

[BEngo]

Immediately on seeing it my thought was "Alvechurch boat".  Either ex-hire or built to the hire fleet hull design.

The main cause of the rippling looks like cross-winding on entry to narrow locks.  The most heavily rippled area is just where the lock mouth would contact an out of line front end, and ther are plenty of abrupt lock entries with vicious cross flows on the W&B where the ABC hire fleet originated together with a few abrupt heads and tails on the Stratford..

 

N

Beaten by Francis!

[DShK]

7 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

It would appear that the guard irons are also bowed in, which suggests that the hull has taken a severe side blow against a wall. some old working boats suffered from the same damage, but they were "working" boats which would have expected to receive some harsh treatment over the years. Personally I would give it a miss.

 

Isn't the wobbling on boats of that age more to do with the knees rusting and laminating, pushing out the sides. Rather than the sheet metal being pushed in.

[Michael Siggers]

21 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Could this boat have been an ex Alvechurch / ABC hire boat?

Hi

 

Yes, there is an Alvechurch name on the Control Panel and when originally built, it was 4 berth with 2 bathrooms. The previous owners had it refurbished.

 

Mike

19 minutes ago, booke23 said:

Is the other side the same? I'm assuming it's 6mm steel?

Yes, it is.

 

Mike

[cuthound]

Our first shareboat went like that after about 5 years.

 

It was caused by a combination of cheap shell builder not using sufficient bracing and inexperienced co-owners cross winding it vinto locks (not being aligned with the lock). It didn't happen to my second shate boat, which was based on a better hull.

 

As others have said, this looks like an ex-hire boat that has seen very hard use.

 

Whilst the damage is cosmetic, rather than structural, it would annoy the hell out of me.

[Tracy D'arth]

It also has a disastrous effect on the selling price!  I for one would not buy it.

[Michael Siggers]

7 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

It also has a disastrous effect on the selling price!  I for one would not buy it.

Thank you. That's the way I am now thinking as it really annoys me.

 

Mike

[roland elsdon]

Its a hybrid .The outside is like our hull sides after 80 years work and 40 odd years as a bwb maintenance boat, the inside like our persimmons built flat.

In the right place fine, tenants love the flat , and people comment on the boat.

 

You do not want to overpay for it as a combination though.

[David Schweizer]

45 minutes ago, DShK said:

 

Isn't the wobbling on boats of that age more to do with the knees rusting and laminating, pushing out the sides. Rather than the sheet metal being pushed in.

 

Not at all the hull has received some severe bashing duing it's 19 years life. this is my old boat at 36 years old, not a wrinkle in sight :-

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by David Schweizer

[DShK]

4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Not at all the hull has received some severe bashing duing it's 19 years life. this is my old boat at 35 years old, not a wrinkle in sight :-

 

 

 

 

 

I should clarify, I was referring to the old work boats, 80+ year old. Specifically, I have been told that the G.U.C.C.C boats suffer from this. I believe iron boats are more likely to suffer as iron laminates when it rusts. A boat of the age you posted won't have knees so to speak.

Edited October 5, 2023 by DShK

[David Schweizer]

7 minutes ago, DShK said:

 

I should clarify, I was referring to the old work boats, 80+ year old. Specifically, I have been told that the G.U.C.C.C boats suffer from this. I believe iron boats are more likely to suffer as iron laminates when it rusts. A boat of the age you posted won't have knees so to speak.

 

That was not clear, as you quoted my post, which was primarily about the boat in the OP's post. My comments about working boats in the same post are in agreement with you. With regard to not having knees, our boat definitely had knees albeit substantial welded angle steel rather than rivetted iron. But it was built by Balliol Fowden who's boats bore many working boat characteristics.

Edited October 5, 2023 by David Schweizer

[DShK]

1 minute ago, David Schweizer said:

 

That was not clear as you quoted my post, which was primarily about the boat in the OP's post. my comments about working boats in the same post is in agreement with you.

Your post suggests the working boats had rippling due to the damage of being bashed about. I am questioning whether that rippling is less being bashed about (I would have thought working boats to be generally well handled and well built), and more due to internal corrosion.

[magnetman]

The starved dog effect. Common on a lot of steel barges. 

 

Odd to see it on a modern narrow boat. How many hours has the engine done ? 

 

 

1 minute ago, DShK said:

Your post suggests the working boats had rippling due to the damage of being bashed about. I am questioning whether that rippling is less being bashed about (I would have thought working boats to be generally well handled and well built), and more due to internal corrosion.

 

I assumed it was due to loading and unloading causing movement in the steel. Obviously not the case in the OP boat because the only cargo it has had was people. 

 

Maybe they had a lot of obese people bringing large amounts of beer on and off the boat regularly.